hardcore mode ?

(Apples) #81

/me chews popcorns

crunch crunch

Is “split second aiming” with a shotgun still considered as aiming? I mean, you just have to shoot at the general direction of whoever come close to you. Yes we can play on the definition of “aiming” all day long, but I think you get the point, I dont remember good instagib players in Q3/QL being ubergood at other gamemodes, the contrary was true tho… Anyway this aiming convo is pointless as you can have any definition you want, and you can tweak your mind soooo hard about it that nothing will be argumented enough for you.

And I think the main point is that HC mode promote camping, you can argue all you want it is the case in any game (And by that I mean empirically, its facts, not arguments). By design or because of a flaw, because players nowadays are lazy kiddos and there is no “fair competition spirit” anymore, its open to discussion, but missing this main point is plain stupid… by design or because of a flaw, this is also open to discussion, but I have my opinion about it.

/me goes back to chewing my popcorn

(DarkangelUK) #82

I have no idea what or if there was a point there, but can I get some popcorn please? My cereal is soggy.

(Apples) #83

crunch crunch

/me giefz the popcorn

here you go

crunch crunch

(Atavax) #84

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;253372]Please point out ANY comparison made in that sentence at all. Read it again please, read it back to yourself a million times… I said ‘it promotes twitch, split second aiming very well’… I see nothing at the end or beginning that says ‘compared to standard gametypes’. Not that I’m questioning your sanity or anything… but do you really see any comparison made in that sentence? Really?

Promote: To support or actively encourage

All of this because you can’t read properly? :confused:[/QUOTE]

adjectives compare… you implied that you were comparing hardcore mode to modes where it took more shots to kill. here, let me provide an example. If someone says their dick is large or small or average, they are comparing it with their understanding of what the average size dick is for someone their age. if someone told their gf that they had a large dick, and then when then when he got her to agree to sex, he pulled down his pants, and his dick was 4", she would be like wtf, i was expecting at least 7". and then you would be like, where did i say my dick was 7"? i never said that anywhere, i simply said it was large… you said that hardcore mode promoted twitch aiming well… well compared to what? shooters that don’t take such few shots to kill is implied.

when the hypothetical guy said his dick was large, it was implied that he was comparing it to other dicks in general. When you said that hardcore mode promotes twitch aiming well, you implied you were comparing it to other shooters in general; shooters other then hardcore shooters being ones that take more shots to kill then hardcore shooters.

your understanding of the english language is disturbing for someone living in a english speaking location.

(DarkangelUK) #85

I implied nothing, I stated that it promotes twitch aiming… promotes, there’s your keyword right there. The mode supports and actively encourages twitch aiming to get the kills… no comparison, no implication, a statement of opinion (that’s the part which says ‘i’d say’). I didn’t say a lot, I didn’t say little… there was no volume implied, because nothing was implied. Again we’re delving into this little surreal conversation and debate that appears to be going on in your head.

Had I said ‘I play a lot of other games and this promotes twitch shooting quite a bit’, then there’s implication… but I didn’t. I get the feeling you didn’t read it properly again… and again when I told you to read it again, you still failed… and are continuing to fail and now construing an argument to back a mythical debate instead of being a man and admitting you read it wrong and ****ed up.

A twitch shot manoeuvre is a fast reaction shot that connects 1st time in a very quick flick style… the game takes 1 hit to kill, so someone who is very good at twitch shots will do well in this game… therefore the mode promotes twitch shots to gain and advantage over other players, because if you can perform a flickshot with high accuracy better than the other players, then you’ll have an advantage over them. What has this got to do with any other game?

Still not grasping this?

Quake 3 Rocket Arena has no splash damage when firing rockets at your feet… therefore it promotes rocket jumping to gain an advantage over other players. Not comparing to any game at all, the way the game is set up, it promotes that style. Need another example?

W:ET hopping down slopes gives you a speed boost, therefore it promotes strafe jumping to gain the advantage over other players. We could go all day with this…

Stop being a stubborn fool and dragging out a debate that didn’t even exist except in your head.

(Senethro) #86

Yeah, uhhhh, while I agree that Hardcore modes are terrible modes mostly played by awful players who can’t hit a target 3 times, you’re beginning with the premise that the features that make up hardcore are bad rather than just subjectively distasteful.

Hardcore players really do know how to ruin a game though. Take BFBC2. The best feature from that game is the spotting system. You press the spot button on an opponent and it lights him up with a map position and orange arrow for a few seconds visible to your team. It encourages people to stay in cover, gives a rough indication of frontlines, can communicate hidden dangers like tanks and gives people targets to fire at. BFBC2 Hardcore removes most HUD elements including the orange arrows, the onscreen map which makes this nice little feature that made me warm up to the game utterly useless.

(Atavax) #87

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;253452]

Still not grasping this?

Quake 3 Rocket Arena has no splash damage when firing rockets at your feet… therefore it promotes rocket jumping to gain an advantage over other players. Not comparing to any game at all, the way the game is set up, it promotes that style. Need another example?

W:ET hopping down slopes gives you a speed boost, therefore it promotes strafe jumping to gain the advantage over other players. We could go all day with this…

Stop being a stubborn fool and dragging out a debate that didn’t even exist except in your head.[/QUOTE]

your failure at understanding the english language is staggering. saying something is good at something is comparing it. saying “You still have to aim, and by the fact it takes 1 hit to kill then i’d say it promotes twitch, split second aiming very well” is the equivalent of saying “Bob’s dick is 8” long, therefore Bob has a big dick." you are taking the information known about the average size of dicks, and you are comparing bob’s size to it when you say its big. when you say a shooter does something well, you are comparing it to other shooters.

if every shooter did a better job at promoting rocket jumping then quake III, then you could not honestly say that quake III promotes rocket jumping well. if every shooter did a better job at promoting strafe jumping then W:ET, then saying W:ET promotes strafe jumping well is a false statement.

(Senethro) #88

dude you’re hella obsessed with dicks

(H0RSE) #89

[QUOTE=Atavax;253499]your failure at understanding the english language is staggering. saying something is good at something is comparing it. saying “You still have to aim, and by the fact it takes 1 hit to kill then i’d say it promotes twitch, split second aiming very well” is the equivalent of saying “Bob’s dick is 8” long, therefore Bob has a big dick." you are taking the information known about the average size of dicks, and you are comparing bob’s size to it when you say its big. when you say a shooter does something well, you are comparing it to other shooters.
[/QUOTE]

From what I’ve read, he’s actually not comparing anything. Using your example - “Bob’s dick is 8” long, therefore Bob has a big dick," He is only pointing out the first part - “Bob’s dick is 8” long." He isn’t saying it is is long or not - he was making an observation or stating an opinion, rather than making a comparison.

(DarkangelUK) #90

@Atavax (and H0RSE gets it!!)

The simplest of statements is so completely lost on you, you think up fictional scenarios to fit this bizarre methodology you have of thinking.

I have no idea how I can explain it any clearer… I swear I sat my 2 year old down to read it and she got it better than you.

I am taking the information known about the situation at hand and applying it to the current game mode. Seriously, what is hard to graps about this?? (not the dicks… the debate… sorry for the off-hand remark… **** I did it again… off the cuff? Man my face is red).

There is no comparison! I swear you’re not right in the head, you just want to argue for hell of it.

“You still have to aim well” <— are you saying you dont have to aim well to get a kill? A bullet has to connect, and for that to happen in a twitch shot… that requires accuracy.
“The fact it takes 1 hit to kill” <-- well you can’t argue that point, its HC mode and thats what we’re discussing
“then i’d say it promotes twitch, split second aiming very well” <-- ive explained what twitch shots are, so a 1 hit kill game where a twitch shot would demise the enemy is promoted.

I swear Im short of drawing pictures here, and I don’t think that would help. I also love how you’re telling the person that made the comment what it meant, like you would know better than the person saying it?

No shooter has to promote something for another to promote it well. RA3 has no splash damage, so rocket jumping is encouraged… do you know what another word for encouraging is? Promoting!

Tetris promotes leaving a long single level available for the 4 single line block to follow so you can remove 4 rows in a single manoeuvre (ive used that word a few times now)… does it have another game to compare it against? Portal promotes high drops to gain velocity to gain further distance in a few of its puzzles, is there another game compared to Portal? NO! It even has an achievement for the longest distance travelled… cos it promotes it! Basketball give you 3 points for the long shot, so it promotes having a good aim on the long ball to gain more points quicker without the need to press the basket area.

Sorry mate, i’ve tried to stay rational… but you’re an idiot. And worse, you’re an argumentative, stubborn idiot that can’t admit when he’s wrong… and you’re going to carry this charade on as long as you can, because you’re an idiot and because you’re stubborn. And you also have a strange fascination with dicks. I tend to stay away from analogies, because your own bias makes them fit your argument, and they end up being as wrong as you are. But hey, you seem to like being humoured, so here we go.

Your statement about dick size was general without context (english lesson here). Twitch shot ability is something unique to the user, just like having an 8 inch cock… on its own without context it means nothing. “I can twitch shot like a bitch” is the same as “I have an 8 inch cock”… no basis, no meaning. So we’ll take hardcore mode as the porn industry… if you have an 8 inch+ cock you’ll do better in the industry. Ergo, if you have a great twitch shot, you’ll do better in HC mode… therefore promoting having a larger cock/better twitch aim. Your argument lacks any context or basis… in other words… you created a BS analogy to fit your argument, and ONCE AGAIN ended up looking like an 8 inch cock.

I know you’re still going to argue this point, which makes it even funnier. You’re also going to mention something about my grasp of the english language… keep trying m8 :wink:

(Atavax) #91

its simple. you have repeatedly said that hardcore mode does something well. You refuse to acknowledge that whether hardcore mode is doing something well depends on how well comparable things do the same job. if every other shooter does a better job of promoting twitch aiming, you can’t claim that hardcore shooters do a good job of promoting twitch aiming. if you score a 70% on a test and the class average is a 40%, you did well, if the class average is 90%, you did poorly.

(DarkangelUK) #92

I think you should give in mate, if you’ve not got it now then you’re never going to get it. Others have grasped the concept quite easily yet it’s lost on you… think it’s time you just walk away. I mean nothing from it? Not even the basketball example? Really???

(Apples) #93

I’m amused, keep the entertainment guyz!

(DarkangelUK) #94

Nah I think i’ll stop there, he’s a total lost cause.

(Apoc) #95

Getting silly now boys.

Darkangel is right on the fact that HC mode promotes twitch shooting. Most modes do. But it doesnt mean that HC doesnt. Normal mode promotes it just as much imo (always looking to start hitting first to avoid the flinching caused by the enemies bullets which makes aiming more difficult).

My little argument was that HC mode (may have been designed this way, may be a flaw in the mode) rewards camping, and as such promotes it. Now this may or may not be a bad thing, for me personally i dislike camping, i can twitch shoot very well, however as much as it helps normally, its not going to help me spot the guy submerged in grass, shooting through the crack in the middle of 2 pieces of wood, who has been aiming at the same spot all map, just waiting for people to cross it. It also makes getting rid of campers harder, as if i do as i usually would, i would flank them, but often find myself running into another campers spot on the way, or having to fight my way through 4 or 5 people just to get to him.

Because of this i personally dislike the mode. I can see darkangel doesnt. However, if i was to make a generalised statement, in which we view camping as a bad thing, i would say HC mode is flawed. This is merely my opinion as i think any mode where camping and lack of movement are rewarded, and where aiming (by comparrison to normal mode) is less important (you only need to get the first bullet on target, which isnt very hard anyway, the hard bit is tracking them after and reacting quickly to when they prone or jump etc).

(Atavax) #96

[QUOTE=Apoc;253567]Getting silly now boys.

Darkangel is right on the fact that HC mode promotes twitch shooting. Most modes do. But it doesnt mean that HC doesnt.[/QUOTE]

he didn’t simply say that hc mode promotes twitch shooting, he says it does it well…

(DarkangelUK) #97

I did indeed, thanks for correcting him for me.

(Apoc) #98

But it doesnt, it only promotes it as much as other modes. Pretty much all shooters promote twitch shooting as its the fastest way to get onto a target.

HC mode promotes it no more or less than others, as you want to start shooting just as much in hc mode as in normal. Problem is HC mode only promotes twitch shooting, whereas normal encourages accurate tracking, movement and evasive manuvers.

(Atavax) #99

[QUOTE=Apoc;253600]But it doesnt, it only promotes it as much as other modes. Pretty much all shooters promote twitch shooting as its the fastest way to get onto a target.

HC mode promotes it no more or less than others, as you want to start shooting just as much in hc mode as in normal. Problem is HC mode only promotes twitch shooting, whereas normal encourages accurate tracking, movement and evasive manuvers.[/QUOTE]

silly apoc, he claims he isn’t comparing hc mode to any other shooters when he says that it promotes twitch aiming well… he claims its irrelevant how well other shooters promote twitch aiming. he is saying, every other mode of shooter other then hardcore, could promote twitch aiming a hundred times better then hardcore mode, and hardcore mode would still promote twitch aiming well.

(DarkangelUK) #100

And there I thought you weren’t getting it, Atavax… FINALLY! :smiley: Now all you need to do is grasp the concept of context and you’re good to go \o/