Grenade Binds


(Ragoo) #121

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210234]But it wouldn’t…I have already told you this multiple times. Interfering with YOUR movement does not equal interfering with everyone’s movement. It boggles my mind that all you gamers couldn’t find a control scheme where the dedicated nade button doesn’t conflict with your movement.

I refuse to believe that out of all the button available on a keyboard and mouse, people could not figure out a control scheme where the dedicated nade button wouldn’t conflict with their movement.[/QUOTE]

So tell me. One finger for running/crouching, one for left, one for forward/backward, one for right and the thumb to jump. Which finger is left to press a button for 2 secs without giving up on movement? I don’t get it.


(Ryan) #122

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210234]But it wouldn’t…I have already told you this multiple times. Interfering with YOUR movement does not equal interfering with everyone’s movement. It boggles my mind that all you gamers couldn’t find a control scheme where the dedicated nade button doesn’t conflict with your movement.

I refuse to believe that out of all the button available on a keyboard and mouse, people could not figure out a control scheme where the dedicated nade button wouldn’t conflict with their movement.[/QUOTE]

Ok, let me explain one more time:

From left to right,

Pinky = SHIFT (= sprint)
Ringfinger = A (= move left)
Middle finger = W/S (= move forward/backward)
Index finger = D (= move right)
Thumb = SPACEBAR/ALT (= jump/crouch)

Tell me what finger should I use to press and HOLD any other keyboard button?

EDIT: Ragoo beat me to it :wink:


(H0RSE) #123

Or you should pull out the pin with your mouth.

There is no “pulling the pin” in Brink, or most if not all video games for that matter.

I think its more about the fact that if you have chosen to use a nade, then isnt it fair and right that you have a small time delay to get to your weapon?

And why is it “fair” to delay the time you can re-equip your weapon, but not “fair” to say, hinder your movement while a nade is equipped? You guys talk about “my movement would be compromised with that button.” Perhaps it should be a penalty for using a “high explosive weapon.”


(Ryan) #124

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210238]There is no “pulling the pin” in Brink, or most if not all video games for that matter.
[/QUOTE]

How many times must I post this?
Watch this @ 0:52 and 2:25…

He uses 2 hands. You can clearly see he pulls the pin. TWO HANDS!!!

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210238]
And why is it “fair” to delay the time you can re-equip your weapon, but not “fair” to say, hinder your movement while a nade is equipped? You guys talk about “my movement would be compromised with that button.” Perhaps it should be a penalty for using a “high explosive weapon.”[/QUOTE]

I am not saying to delay time.
The AUTO-PRIMERS are saying that the weaponbank takes more time, not me!


(Senethro) #125

[QUOTE=Ryan;210229]Why I would want to jump while I throw a grenade? Isn’t that OBVIOUS? Should I just STAND STILL for 4 seconds then!?

I would still like to be able to move to all directions and not being a sitting duck while I am timing my grenade.
Stupid question imo.

 No, really, why would you want to jump while throwing a grenade? You can still move while left thumbing alt and you could jump if you really wanted to by rebinding.

Of course, thats all irrelevent because I gave the alternative of the Alt+Mouse1 bind but don't let that stop you making a point I've already answered. 

What do you mean with Alt+mouse1?
I would need to press Alt to switch the function of my mouse1 button? Like a toggle?

Why not use “4” for that AND have it show the correct animation and model at the same time?
Toggling the function of MOUSE1 with Alt will ALSO make you not be able to shoot the “easy targets” like with a weaponbank where u actually have the grenade equiped. This would make the auto-prime almost the same as a weaponbank, but you CAN’T see that u have selected a grenade.

So weaponbank > Mouse1 function toggle

Its not me whos asking for extra buttons to press, its you. I think Alt+Mouse1 is an inferior control to Mouse4 but since you're complicating things, its the best thing I could think of. I also thing pressing 4 for a toggle is bad. There you go.
You also can't shoot "easy targets" at all with a weaponbank because weapon switch usually takes too long and anyone who runs about with a grenade permanenetly selected gets killed by those carrying guns.

CoDMW2 is the shittiest competative game there is. And it’s smarter? Don’t u mean they DUMBED it down? Cause u say that auto-prime is “easier” for inexperienced players.
It’s already in and not easily removed? Weaponbank could be ADDED, we don’t insist of having the auto-prime to be deleted, we want the OPTION to choose!

No, MW2 is a shit game but is successful in spite of this. Its played by lots of people. SD wants those people to buy Brink. This can be made easier by dropping bad old control schemes like weaponbanks. 

Yes, if you'd been reading you've have seen its already in and not easily removed. It can't easily be added either. That was explicitly said. I wouldn't be surprised if people with your issue were even fewer in number than keyboard arrow players, so I hardly think its worth spending the programming time, the testing, the bugfixing all for this tiny issue.

Ow, so now you DO rely on experienced players to know how to bind in a config, but having a choosable option in the game menu is too hard for them?

The menu confuses inexperience players and is unecessary work, the cfging is pretty easy for a long time player. Thats good because they're likely the only kind that will want that script.

How can a weaponbank be crap? It doesn’t interfere with anything?

It interferes because now its extra work to add and is an inferior control method.

I don’t know what the hell this should mean, but the whole point here is that we CAN"T choose our own “strings”.

Keyboard binds are like choosing your own strings. Its up to you to pick good ones that you can use. Thats why the default binds are bad things like weapon banks on number keys and nades on G - easy for nubs to remember, easy for experienced players to change.

Who cares if its 0.001 second slower. At least it doesn’t cripple someone for 4 seconds trying to prime the grenade!

Weaponbank cripples everyone for 0.5 seconds every time they switch. Offhand doesn't cripple many people, only those who can't set up a sensible control scheme and refuse to use scripts or helpful advice to get around this. Its a non-issue for most.

Use the weaponbank?
So around 80% of the players here are grizzled and calcified then.

Yes, thats why messageboards full of your biggest fans are dangerous.

Now for the last time, why is auto-prime key better?
Cause I can clearly see more advantages in the weaponbank system then ith the auto-prime.
[/QUOTE]

Why its better: One button. No extra development work from now. A kind developer starting a new game might accomodate you but the train has left the station this time. Darkangels script and my conditional binds are your best bet.

Whats the lesson: If you have some pet issue that is going to destroy the enjoyment of the game for you then post about it now. Do you think inverted Y should be default? Do you think intros should be played on every startup or just the first? Better get posting.


(Senethro) #126

[QUOTE=Ragoo;210232]Hm no, they kinda flew very fast in a non ballistic way. But perhaps I only have hallucinations , was just playing ET:QW pub and never read about it. I’m pretty sure it is like that though^^
edit: Ok just tried it again. I guess I just meant the higher velocity when you run and then jump and throw it. Pretty useful nevertheless.[/quote]
Interesting. I don’t think I used this. Anyway, offhand nades don’t stop this.

Look at for example the tek9 MW2 forum and you will know this game is competitively dead already. Also IW won’t allow any modding and I heard about much cheating going on. How can this game possibly stay alive for as long as CS? And if so, why would it be an example for a good game?

I suspect it’ll have been a profitable game so its likely one we’ll be seeing more of whether we like it or not. So we’d better get busy tryign to figure out how to turn uncompetitive games into competitive games. We’re not more important than the profit motive.


(H0RSE) #127

Ok, let me explain one more time:

From left to right,

Pinky = SHIFT (= sprint)
Ringfinger = A (= move left)
Middle finger = W/S (= move forward/backward)
Index finger = D (= move right)
Thumb = SPACEBAR/ALT (= jump/crouch)

Tell me what finger should I use to press and HOLD any other keyboard button?

Well for me it is:

Pinky=Caps, shift, ctrl (sprint, crouch, prone)
Ringfinger=A, Q (move left, previous weapon)
Middle finger=W,S (move forward/backward)
Index finger= D, E, R, T, (move left, next weapon, reload, chat, use)
Thumb=spacebar, Z-B, F (jump, context menu/tools, use)

Your thumb can easily access Z-B and Alt, with your thumb still being close to spacebar. There is no logical reason why you couldn’t use any of those buttons…and I have small hands.


(Senethro) #128

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210234]But it wouldn’t…I have already told you this multiple times. Interfering with YOUR movement does not equal interfering with everyone’s movement. It boggles my mind that all you gamers couldn’t find a control scheme where the dedicated nade button doesn’t conflict with your movement.

I refuse to believe that out of all the button available on a keyboard and mouse, people could not figure out a control scheme where the dedicated nade button wouldn’t conflict with their movement.[/QUOTE]

Seriously. Put some effort into your binding folks. This is your problem brought on yourselves.


(jazevec) #129

The grenade issue reminds me of Repair/EnterVehicle/Action key in ET:QW. In an attempt to make the game easier for the newcomers, they made Action key applied on a vehicle equip the repair tool and repair. The problem ? Now they needed a separate key for Enter Vehicle. Not not just newbies, but also experienced players had to bind two separate keys: Action and Enter Vehicle.

Grenade situation is similar. Now you need separate keys for firing and throwing grenade. As already mentioned, binding it on the keyboard is problematic. Some people (like me) have a mouse with a relatively small number of buttons (3, but it’s a Razer mouse, not some piece of cardboard). I shouldn’t have to sacrifice a mouse button.

Moral of the story: don’t sacrifice long time benefits in the name of making the game more accessible and “intuitive”. If you simplify the interface forcing advanced players to use an inferior solution, that’s bad.


(H0RSE) #130

How many times must I post this?
Watch this @ 0:52 and 2:25…
http://www.brinkthegame.com/#/videos/container_city2/

He uses 2 hands. You can clearly see he pulls the pin. TWO HANDS!!!

That still doesn’t change the fact that a fast re-equip of your weapon should be compromised…When Brink becomes a military sim, then you guys can talk. Since it is trying to be a fun, accessible game to as many people as possible, I see the dedicated nade button as a welcomed addition from the equip nade, throw, re-equip weapon formula.


(Ryan) #131

[QUOTE=Senethro;210242]Why its better: One button. No extra development work from now. A kind developer starting a new game might accomodate you but the train has left the station this time. Darkangels script and my conditional binds are your best bet.

Whats the lesson: If you have some pet issue that is going to destroy the enjoyment of the game for you then post about it now. Do you think inverted Y should be default? Do you think intros should be played on every startup or just the first? Better get posting.[/QUOTE]

I would have to bind jumping to my mouse then?
Then what should I do with the spacebar?
and I rather have voip on my mouse4.

Besides, what happends to people who don’t have more buttons on their mouse?
They suppose to stay crippled?

I know that using a weaponbank would get rid of any movement issues right away.

And how is using a weaponbank complicating things when half the weapons are ALREADY in a weaponbank.
Now you have 2 systems. One for your guns, and one for your grenades. That’s complicating things.

You won’t have grenades permanently selected. You won’t run around them all the time in your hands and its a CHOICE you would need to make. (Shall I equip my grenade now, with the chance of getting shot or later)
When u selected your grenade with G there is no way back either.
Besides, I might not WANT to get my gun back after I have thrown a grenade, maybe I would like to revive someone or plant on an objective rather then having my gun forced back into my hands.

now THAT takes up time!

So the auto-prime is better because it takes more time to fix it then to leave it crappy?

I am not asking for extra buttons to press. If any, the G key is an extra button I have to pres, which I don’t have enough fingers for.


(Ryan) #132

[QUOTE=H0RSE;210244]Well for me it is:

Pinky=Caps, shift, ctrl (sprint, crouch, prone)
Ringfinger=A, Q (move left, previous weapon)
Middle finger=W,S (move forward/backward)
Index finger= D, E, R, T, (move left, next weapon, reload, chat, use)
Thumb=spacebar, Z-B, F (jump, context menu/tools, use)

Your thumb can easily access Z-B and Alt, with your thumb still being close to spacebar. There is no logical reason why you couldn’t use any of those buttons…and I have small hands.[/QUOTE]

OH MY GOD. ?!!

Who fcking cares if its CLOSE to the spacebar?! That STILL means I can’t press it now can I?
I rather have my thumb ON the spacebar!


(Ryan) #133

I don’t see the fun in that stupid system.

I dunno, was ET:QW a military sim? I don’t think it was?


(H0RSE) #134

Who fcking cares if its CLOSE to the spacebar?! That STILL means I can’t press it now can I?
I rather have my thumb ON the spacebar!

::plays tiny violin::


(Senethro) #135

[QUOTE=Ryan;210251]OH MY GOD. ?!!

Who fcking cares if its CLOSE to the spacebar?! That STILL means I can’t press it now can I?
I rather have my thumb ON the spacebar![/QUOTE]

You’re inflexible, both in attitude and in manual dexterity. The problem is caused by you.


(MILFandCookies) #136

[QUOTE=Senethro;210227]It is better. Simpler is better. Why is complicated better?

[/QUOTE]

If I can jump out of an icarus, throw a teleporter in the air,then teleport at a greater height, then switch to rail and ‘parachute’ down while railing you in the face… do you really think I care about what is complicated in a game champ?

Nothing complicated about weapon banks. At least in my opinion :wink:


(Ryan) #137

I was reacting to this rather dumb comment of you.
Because we proved like a MILLION times that ANY key interferes with your movement keys, and your responds is:

Yea, you can’t press the movement keys, but hey, you can ALMOST press em.

gaaawdd :<


(H0RSE) #138

If I can jump out of an icarus, throw a teleporter in the air,then teleport at a greater height, then switch to rail and ‘parachute’ down while railing you in the face… do you really think I care about what is complicated in a game champ?

But newcomers will find it complicated. I don’t think it is in SD’s or Bethesda’s best intenetion to only cater to the fans they already have or the “hardcore.” They want NEW players, and people new to the game aren’t going to want to perform a sequence of buttons to perform actions.


(Ryan) #139

That is because I am getting irritated by your replies that are not backed up by reason.
Rather then saying, it’s the “new” way, join us.


(MILFandCookies) #140

He asked for my opinion. Learn to read.