Grenade Binds

(RR2DO2) #41

One thing nobody here really seems to consider that Brink is featuring off-hand grenades. This is very different from the ‘grenades as weapon’ implementation in Wolf(ET)/Doom 3/ETQW/Half-Life/etc.

Grenade systems:
Wolf(ET): switch to the weapon using the dedicated button (which takes N time) or use the mouse wheel to scroll to it. Now you hold down the fire button to prime it, release to throw
Doom 3: dedicated grenade button. Press it once, it toggles to grenade. Press it once again, it returns to whatever previous weapon you had selected. Firing the grenade works similar to Wolf(ET), hold fire to prime and release to throw.
ETQW: essentially the same as Wolf(ET) iirc

Brink however has off-hand grenades. Now way back in TF/Q3F/TFC or whatever variant you played tended to have these as well. For TF everyone just scripted their own behaviour. For Q3F we exposed two of the most popular ways of throwing. One of them is the one that is in Brink now, a dedicated button for a grenade, you press it for priming, release for throwing. The more hardcore players tended to use the other system - which does require a bit more attention and isn’t as friendly to new players. Namely, you press the dedicated grenade button once to prime it (your grenade timer audio starts ticking) and you press it once more to throw it. The Team Fortress games were much more a twitch based shooter than the current generation of games tend to be, so hardcore players tended to go for the latter option as it required the least attention and provided the fastest way to throw a grenade (no weapon switch delay, no movement restrictions, etc). However, as I said, this isn’t as new player friendly as it is easy to forget about your primed grenade which then blows up in your face, taking you out with it.

(shirosae) #42

It works fantastically if you’ve got a 4th mouse button and hold your mouse in the palm of your hand so your thumb is free to press it.

I hold my mouse with my fingertips, not my palm. My thumb is used to guide the mouse about for finer movements, so if you need me to use it to push a button to prime and throw a grenade, my aiming is hindered for the duration.

I need to either retrain myself to hold the mouse differently, or buy a set of footpedals or something. I’d really rather not do either.

I went back and re-read DarkAngel’s script, and I was wrong - I had it confused with that mess of a script hack people needed to do with Wolfenstein, apologies.

It’ll work (assuming you remove the underscore binding rules from ETQW), but it means that I need to remember what I have selected and hope I don’t fumble any keys, since I’ve got no on-screen display that I’m set to grenades.

Has anyone been told about them?

I just did a post search for “off-hand grenades” and got two posts (including this one). This was the other one.

Ironically, I could get along with a system like this just fine if I wasn’t using right-click for ironsights. Maybe I could bind left-ctrl for ironsights and use right click for grenades if we get hold-to-sight behaviour instead of push-to-toggle only?

(RR2DO2) #43

shirosae, scripting was intentionally changed from the idTech 3 and earlier generation of games to idTech 4 to stop people making overly abusive scripts that automated too much functionality. It’s now a good balance between what you can do and what is restricted. This is not something that will change as going back to older idTech level of flexibility will bring back too many flame wars about what kind of scripts are cheats and what kind of scripts are not. Also, I suggest that this post of me doesn’t start a second discussion within this thread as it won’t be very constructive to either this thread or the subject itself.

(shirosae) #44

Does this mean that the script Rahdo mentions from DarkAngel (which toggles a mouse1 bind between _attack and whatever your grenade key is) isn’t going to happen?

I wasn’t suggesting that you remove all the underscores btw, just the ones required to make this work.

(digibob) #45

[QUOTE=shirosae;210053]
I wasn’t suggesting that you remove all the underscores btw, just the ones required to make this work.[/QUOTE]

The underscores don’t make a difference.

(Ryan) #46

It’s not with we don’t want the grenade to be thrown we the button is released.
It’s about selecting the grenade first, instead of priming it immediatly on selection.

Because; when priming it immediatly when selecting it means it is impossible to do that with mouse1 (the _attack button) thus you would need a seperate key just to throw grenades.

This key is either on the keyboard which u have to press and hold down, or on the mouse.
When it’s on the keyboard, it interferes with your movement controls.

When it’s on the mouse, it interferes with aiming AND you end up with an emtpy slot on your mouse when you have thrown your grenade.

However, when the grenade is on a weaponbank, it takes 0.1 second to select it, thus not interfering with your movement, and you can just throw/prime it the regular way with your mouse1.

That is what I believe the main concern here. (There are plenty more reasons given to have it as a weaponbank). I hope you guys understand and try to implement it if possible.

Greetings,
Ryan

(shirosae) #47

I thought the underscore was used to mark which commands we couldn’t chain up in scripts? Oh well, learnt something new.

Can we script attack and grenades to perform the script Rahdo suggests?

(RR2DO2) #48

They were shown in the videos that started the discussion leading up to this whole thread.

DarkAngel’s script makes sense as pseudo code, but it won’t work like that in game. Rather than focus on his script to exactly, you should focus on the mechanics of the way he wants the throwing to work.

(RR2DO2) #49

[QUOTE=Ryan;210055]
This key is either on the keyboard which u have to press and hold down, or on the mouse.
When it’s on the keyboard, it interferes with your movement controls.[/QUOTE]

Read my post again, the method I outline does not require you to hold down the keyboard key. It’s two separate taps and the whole reason it exist is to not interfere with your movement. I don’t think there have been many PC shooters that featured more movement flexibility combined with complex gameplay than the Fortress series of games - people there used configs and keyboard layouts way way more complicated than anything currently used in games. Back in those days the mouse wheel was a relatively new thing too, so you had even less buttons available on your mouse.

(shirosae) #50

Erm okay, but people can’t see how you’re controlling your player in those videos, so it makes sense that they don’t know about them?

I understand that, but given that I’ve got no way of understanding how your scripting works, I don’t have much other than pseudocode to offer as a way of describing how I’d like things to work.

When I say “remove the underscores”, I don’t actually believe that the game goes looking for underscores, I’m just using it as a euphemism.

Is the functionality he asks for possible with Brink’s scripting?

(RR2DO2) #51

Our console functionality is pretty much the same as ETQW. Either way, you are derailing the actual discussion so keep that for a different thread if you will.

(timestart) #52

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;209644]We could script it :smiley:

set nadearmed "bind G $nadedisarmed; bind mouse1 _weapon3; addchatline 'Nade Equiped'"
set nadedisarmed "bind G $nadearmed; bind mouse1 _attack; _weapon2 ; addchatline 'Weapon Equiped'"
bind G $nadearmed

Nade Equiped and grenades are on your mouse1, press again and you’re back to main weapon \o/ Totally made up script but the theory is there…[/QUOTE]

Reposting here for anyone who missed it in the other thread.

(digibob) #53

The _weapon2 will not work in the second line, as it’s a key, not a command, so needs to be bound to a key to work.

(DarkangelUK) #54

_weapon2 isnt required as the weaponbank isnt unloaded.

(digibob) #55

Yup, so it will work fine with that removed.

(DarkangelUK) #56

To clarify the final script (with correct spelling for MoP!!)

set nadearmed “bind G $nadedisarmed; bind mouse1 _weapon3; addchatline ‘Grenade Equipped’”
set nadedisarmed “bind G $nadearmed; bind mouse1 _attack; addchatline ‘Weapon Equipped’”
bind G $nadearmed

It’s purely rebinds so should work fine in theory.

(AnthonyDa) #57

What we want is to be able to select nade in weapon bank with mousewheel, then arming nade when we want to, not having nade armed when it’s selected.

I’m affraid that BRINK will use wolfish/consolish controls, which means 1 key binded to 1 weapon but no way to scroll between all of them with mouse wheel, correct ?

(timestart) #58

Mouse wheel sucks for switching weapon…

(Rahdo) #59

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;210069]
It’s purely rebinds so should work fine in theory.[/QUOTE]
Yup, that’s my hope. Seems fine on paper, will try it out tomorrow.

(Ragoo) #60

As I said earlier, it sucks for weapons but is quite good to select tools that are normally 5,6,7,8.

But I guess BRINK won’t let you preselect your tools :frowning: I hope BRINKpro can do something about it :wink: