Gameradar hands-on preview


(Jamieson) #61

[QUOTE=H0RSE;211280]This is an opinion, and all the type chat only games, and games played before Vent and TS were around would like to have a word with you.

Can voice chat make teamplay gaming easier, perhaps, is it necessary or ‘integral’ definitely not.[/QUOTE]

Yes it was an opinion. Saying it is better to not have it is also an opinion. Atleast I said why I think it is useful and the measures people can take if they don’t want to listen to people.

What Tokamak said is pritty much my experince and the experince of everyone I know who games on the PC.

I do believe voice chat is integral. I have played both at a competitive and pub level. In comp it is necessary and in pub matches it significantly improves teamplay as people can communicate and play at the same time. I know your trying to say people coped in the past but where there is room for improvement there should be. I don’t understand why you would want to hinder gameplay in this way.


(Ryan) #62

Don’t listen to him Jamieson.

He can only tell you that your opinions are wrong.

Voicechat on at default encourages people to actually use it.
Otherwise this feature might be left unused by most players.


(INF3RN0) #63

The local mute allows me to block out any unwanted VOIPerz. I don’t want to hear 12 year olds giggle at their own jokes, +apples excluded - h4rdc0re globally muted, and I really can’t stand the guy trying to tell everyone what to do. Vsays are entertaining and useful for about all situations. I do most of the talking on ventrilo or in fire team, which really should be the place for those two guys who spend the whole game calling each other f@gs to go about it. So yea I have a mic, but I rarely use in game VOIP, plus I am trying to conceal my gender…

*IMO VOIP is for that guy who is always dropping primed nades when he dies…


(H0RSE) #64

I know your trying to say people coped in the past but where there is room for improvement there should be. I don’t understand why you would want to hinder gameplay in this way.
You make it sound like I am against it as a whole. I am simply saying have it defaulted to off, not remove it.

Voicechat on at default encourages people to actually use it.
first off, if you are a voice chat user, you are going to use it regardless, whether it be in-game, or through other software like Vent or TS, so it wouldn’t matter if it was off, on, upside down, or over for “veteran” voice chatters…they wouldn’t need any “encouragement.”
The encouragement applies to players who are new to voice chat, and having it on by default doesn’t really encourage anything. First off, it’s voice chat…meaning you need a mic, which a lot players don’t have. I don’t think having voice defaulted to on is going to make them jump up and buy a mic. You want to encourage them? Ship the game with a mic and/or headset, THAT is encouragement, not a setting in a game.

If it was defaulted to ‘off’ a player could play the game and experience all the gameplay the devs put into the game. They would have the full experience, and nothing would be compromised. In short, they gain and lose nothing by having it defaulted to off.

Having it defaulted to on however, is not the same thing. First off, the devs can’t program what people are going to say online. Voice chat can be…intimidating…If it was defaulted to on, and a player was online and heard something he didn’t like, well now you have a scared off a potential online player or at least made them more reluctant to play. Or say there was nothing offensive being said…say that everything being said was actually pleasant. That still doesn’t mean a player wants to hear what others have to say or have orders barked at them. Some people just like to start up a game, play it, and be left alone. And since there is virtually no need for “damage control” when voice chat is off.

Next you have people who are the exact opposite of the veteran voice chatters…the veteran non-voice chatters. Players who for whatever reason just don’t enjoy speaking, or hearing people while they play a game, and no sort of ‘encouragement’ will change this.

You can say “you can just mute the people you don’t want to hear,” and my response would be, if you are worried about players not using voice chat because it is off by default, what makes you think they would even know how to mute someone, or even know that such a feature even exists? Off should be the default setting. A lot of problems can be avoided with this setting off by default.

Otherwise this feature might be left unused by most players.
Even if it was defaulted to on, it would still go unused to a lot of players. It is an OPTIONAL feature, so it should be turned on as an OPTION.


(Jamieson) #65

[QUOTE=H0RSE;211319]You make it sound like I am against it as a whole. I am simply saying have it defaulted to off, not remove it.

first off, if you are a voice chat user, you are going to use it regardless, whether it be in-game, or through other software like Vent or TS, so it wouldn’t matter if it was off, on, upside down, or over for “veteran” voice chatters…they wouldn’t need any “encouragement.”
The encouragement applies to players who are new to voice chat, and having it on by default doesn’t really encourage anything. First off, it’s voice chat…meaning you need a mic, which a lot players don’t have. I don’t think having voice defaulted to on is going to make them jump up and buy a mic. You want to encourage them? Ship the game with a mic and/or headset, THAT is encouragement, not a setting in a game.

If it was defaulted to ‘off’ a player could play the game and experience all the gameplay the devs put into the game. They would have the full experience, and nothing would be compromised. In short, they gain and lose nothing by having it defaulted to off.

Having it defaulted to on however, is not the same thing. First off, the devs can’t program what people are going to say online. Voice chat can be…intimidating…If it was defaulted to on, and a player was online and heard something he didn’t like, well now you have a scared off a potential online player or at least made them more reluctant to play. Or say there was nothing offensive being said…say that everything being said was actually pleasant. That still doesn’t mean a player wants to hear what others have to say or have orders barked at them. Some people just like to start up a game, play it, and be left alone. And since there is virtually no need for “damage control” when voice chat is off.

Next you have people who are the exact opposite of the veteran voice chatters…the veteran non-voice chatters. Players who for whatever reason just don’t enjoy speaking, or hearing people while they play a game, and no sort of ‘encouragement’ will change this.

You can say “you can just mute the people you don’t want to hear,” and my response would be, if you are worried about players not using voice chat because it is off by default, what makes you think they would even know how to mute someone, or even know that such a feature even exists? Off should be the default setting. A lot of problems can be avoided with this setting off by default.

Even if it was defaulted to on, it would still go unused to a lot of players. It is an OPTIONAL feature, so it should be turned on as an OPTION.[/QUOTE]

You assume that you need a micraphone to benefit from voice chat. Just simply by hearing other people you can learn a lot about the game and learn how to contribute correctly. The PC gaming community is generally very nice and will give teammates pointers or explain what to do. It does effect me, What is the point of me communicating important information if no one can hear it? If I let the team know there is a guy going for the objective with defualt on the entire team knows, with it off no one knows. This is how it effects teamplay and it is very important.

If it is off by defualt then the new player will never know it is there. By having it on they expericnce it they may even like if it. If they do they may wish to participate and buy a micraphone if they dont like it they can turn it off. If they never try it they wont know and in the meantime teamwork and teamplay suffers as a result.

“some people just like start up a game and be left alone” what is the point of playing a multiplayer game then? Playing online against and with other people is about interaction about working as a team. If i want to be left alone I can play a single player game and there is no problems.

I really think your suggesting problems exist when they actually don’t. You need to give new people more credit their not going to jump out of there seat the moment they hear someone in there headset speaking for the first time.

Think of this situation.

Player A is a new player and has experinced voice chat for the first time because it is set to defualt and they don’t like it so they ask how to turn it off. People respond and they navigate the menus and turn it off. After a slight bit of frustration they are now happy.

Player B is a new player and thinks there is no voice chat because they can not hear anybody because it is set to defual off. Once they discover there is they cannot ask anybody and they cannot hear anybody to learn how to access the menus to turn it on. Player B eventually finds the solution after much frustration which could otherwise have been avoided.

Which is the better situation?


(H0RSE) #66

You assume that you need a micraphone to benefit from voice chat. Just simply by hearing other people you can learn a lot about the game and learn how to contribute correctly.

Next you have people who are the exact opposite of the veteran voice chatters…the veteran non-voice chatters. Players who for whatever reason just don’t enjoy speaking, or hearing people while they play a game, and no sort of ‘encouragement’ will change this.

If it is off by defualt then the new player will never know it is there.
Does the option disappear from existence when turned off? I’m sure they will still know it is there…

“some people just like start up a game and be left alone” what is the point of playing a multiplayer game then?
It’s multiPLAYER not multi-talk to everyone. I pay multiplayer to PLAY…nothing more. Usually in games, the single player and multiplayer portions are completely different. If you want to play a certain gamemode or whatnot, the player HAS to play multiplayer. So what is the point of playing a multiplayer game then? Because it offers a portion of the game inaccessible through singleplayer.

It isn’t always about playing multiplayer because you want to interact with people. Take UT for example. With it’s bot support, I don’t even bother going online. I can get the same experience without it. I will however play Brink against real people, seeing as all previous SD tittles I played against real people.

After a slight bit of frustration they are now happy.
The “slight frustration” could have been avoided if it was already off. A veteran most likely won’t have such frustration turning it on.

Once they discover there is they cannot ask anybody and they cannot hear anybody to learn how to access the menus to turn it on.
2 words…type chat.

I’m not saying to remove voice chat, I’m just saying let the player experience the game that the devs made. Let them play at their own pace, and leave options like voice chat as an option…if you want it, turn it on.l


(MILFandCookies) #67

I quite like listening to the nerd rage in VOIP, its entertaining. Its only the pub heroes barking orders that annoy me.

As far as having it off by default, a new player to multiplayer probably wont know whether VOIP is any useful to them. So I think they could be “bribed” into trying it out, with a clear message on how to switch it on and off.

Also SD might ask the question during installation whether they are a new player to MP… and have VOIP switched off only for new players by default.

I honestly dont really see it as a big issue.


(H0RSE) #68

So I think they could be “bribed” into trying it out, with a clear message on how to switch it on and off.

Also SD might ask the question during installation whether they are a new player to MP… and have VOIP switched off only for new players by default.

I was thinking something like this was going to be in the game anyway. Some kind of game tip or popup.


(Senyin) #69

What about this “you can only hear your friends” thing?
I thought I read that somewhere.


(tokamak) #70

Yeah that’s what this is about, only hearing your friends is sensible for consoles, but somehow voicechat on pc’s isn’t nearly as abused, maybe because people can easily chat as well.


(ZernoK) #71

Why bother using VOIP if none is gonna hear what I say anyway.


(Jamieson) #72

Well horse I see your are not going to change your point of view. Regarding Brink though the game is going to be playable through SP, MP and Co-op so all game modes will be available to everyone regarldess of what mode they are in.

You are the first person I have encountered with the experince/view that you put forward. Every PC gamer I know shares similar views to myself regarding voice chat and I know a lot of PC gamers. There were atleast 150 members in the Quake Wars division of TAW and over 700 Members in TAW itself. Now im not going to sit here and pretend I knew them all but I knew many of them and voice chat was promoted throughout the community and no one ever had a problem with it.

What I’ am trying to get at is that I think your opinion is in the minority. I may not necessarily understand or agree with your point of view but its your view regardless.


(WhiteAden) #73

[QUOTE=BioSnark;211290]I would defiantly recommend having it on by default on PC or a having some prominent notification of the option on loading screens or similar.

For muting people, Quake Wars had the option damn well hidden. Should have been as easy as hitting tab and r-clicking the names on that scoreboard. Led to unnecessary amounts of mute/kick votes.[/QUOTE]

they said that voicechat was muted by standard in BRINK so I’m pretty sure that it’ll be improved from QW’s voicechat


(spazski) #74

After reading that article, I can’t wait to play the Operative. It will definitely be my main class.


(jazevec) #75

I don’t think guys like that think how to get the most out of their health pack supply. They try to keep themselves alive first, and may give leftovers to others second. The logic you used could as well be used to promote healing other players even in W:ET and ET:QW. Some players perceive healing others as “playing the cleric” in MMORPGs. That is, you’re servant for other people and don’t have fun yourself. Others, like myself, view playing medic a bit like playing a Necromancer. By healing others (even at 1.0 rate) you’re managing your own army of minions and servants. If you’re a good medic, players tend to stick with you and protect you.

I don’t know what exactly you have in mind for Brink, but if it’s anything like my old ET:QW suggestions (medic gets XP for achievements of allies he healed or revived) then it could be very interesting. Healing in W:ET and ET:QW promoted quantity, not quality. Point-wise, you’d do well to let your teammates to fall and revive them again and again.


(Rahdo) #76

Sounds like the xp rewards are quite strong i.e rewards time played over skill.

Hopefully not. Stuff like muzzle breaks and grips with affect weapon stats are all unlocks you get very early in the game, so effectively “everyone” has them. The stuff you get later in the game are completely new weapons, and these don’t provide more power, just more options.

That’s for weapons. For abilities, yes, the longer you play, the more you will have. BUT, as players level up, they’re automatically matched with other players who are at similar levels (so ‘majors’ fight against other ‘majors’, not against ‘privates’). that’s if you’re relying on the default ‘find me a game’ functionality, but if you’d rather, you can filter for you own games, and then opt into matches where other players are higher level than you.

Seems abit like a wall hack, maybe you could further explain how this works.

It kind of is, though that was an upgraded (high level) version of interrogation they were seeing in the demo… the low level one puts enemies only on radar for a little while. but it’s important to remember that when someone does do a successful high level interrogation against one of your teammates, you know about it (“one of our squad as been interogated. be careful!” autochatter from the squad commander), so you KNOW that the enemy is aware of you, and you can react appropriately. plus, there’s cool down - operatives have to wait awhile before they can do it again, as a further balancing measure.

Unfortunately, this is not as smart as it sounds. Remember medics who would keep healing themselves and be out of medpacks when asked for help ? It’s like that, only 2 times worse. If someone starts using ‘pips’ (whatever they are) on himself, he’ll be out of pips (for buffing teammates) twice as fast.

First, clarificaiton on ‘pips’. Basically, our life meters and power meters aren’t one solid bar, but a collection of individual ‘pips’. so in the case of power, when you look at your meter, if you see it’s 3 pips long, that means right now, you can do exactly three class actions. and the life meter works like the one in farcry 2 did, where it’s split into pips, and each individual auto-pip can self heal, but to get a full heal of your entire meter, you need to rely on medics.

Second, the selfish medic issue is dealt with mostly again with ability cooldowns. If i can only heal my self once every, say, 30 seconds (that’s not a real final number, mind, just an example), then generally i’ve got power to heal others in the meantime. that, plus the fact that healing others gets you a LOT of xp (more than you can earn by killing, by a long shot), and healing yourself gets you nothing. those two things are about the only things we can do to try to address selfishness. probably won’t handle all cases, but it’s better than nothing…

If you don’t want to recieve in game chat then you can turn it off. ETQW had the option to receive global, team, and fire team chat. Even if you want to have voice chat on and there is an indivdual who is annoying you can locally mute them in the limbo menu.

First of all, a little more about the ‘default’ voip setting. This is effectively a server setting in our ‘standard’ match, which is what the game puts you in if you simply say “i’d like to play the next mission in my storyline online, please”. same as no FF. so players who just want to jump in and play online with no hassles, they choise the “next mission” option, and boom, they don’t hear anyone calling them f******, they don’t have assholes shooting them in the back, and they have a good time. are they missing some of what makes multiplayer great? yes. but they’re having a good time.

for pretty much every single one of you guys on this board, i suspect that simple “take me to the next mission” option will not be good enough, and you’ll all instead opt for the “take me to a server browser” choice. once there, you can find missions where voip is on by default (for everyone), FF is on, player ranks are restricted or open, high level abilities are allowed or disallowed, etc.

i expect the majority of console players will opt for the former (the standard ‘friendly’ matches), and the majority of PC players will opt for the later (the let me play the game without restrictions, i’m a big boy, i can handle it matches). so hopefully everyone will be satisfied… :slight_smile:

Regarding voip, i feel this is a better way to go, because doing the other thing (allowing individuals to selectively turn voip on or off) works at a disadvantage to everyone, including the players who want to speak. what good does it do you to talk into your mike and give strategy/tips, if, for all you know, half your team has manually decided to turn voip off. you might think a player is a complete asshat by ignoring your repeated requests for ammo, but in fact, it’s just that they’ve turned voip off because someone called them a n***** in the past, so they don’t take chances anymore. and they have no idea you’re asking for ammo.

a weird system where “maybe” sometimes people talk, and “maybe” sometimes other people can hear them, but no one is every sure about either, doesn’t help anyone. a more strict system where everyone knows that either a) no one is talking or hearing, or b) everyone can talk and everyone can hear, and letting players gravitate to the choice they prefer, strikes me as a bit clearer all around.

and if you opt for the “i’d prefer not to be called a m*********** again, thanks” server option, you can still team play because our auto-chatter system automatically says 90% of the common stuff players say to each other anyway. and for the 10% that it can’t cover, you can either a) step up to the ‘non-standard’ servers, or b) open up local voice channels with just the people you want to talk to.


(tokamak) #77

[QUOTE=Rahdo;211538]Second, the selfish medic issue is dealt with mostly again with ability cooldowns. If i can only heal my self once every, say, 30 seconds (that’s not a real final number, mind, just an example), then generally i’ve got power to heal others in the meantime. that, plus the fact that healing others gets you a LOT of xp (more than you can earn by killing, by a long shot), and healing yourself gets you nothing. those two things are about the only things we can do to try to address selfishness. probably won’t handle all cases, but it’s better than nothing…
[/QUOTE]

You also don’t want to too dogmatic in your approach that it totally ruins the creativity and decision making for the player in-game. So it’s better than nothing AND better than a system that forces players to be social (IE by removing self-heal altogether or stuff like that).


(Jamieson) #78

[QUOTE=Rahdo;211538]Hopefully not. Stuff like muzzle breaks and grips with affect weapon stats are all unlocks you get very early in the game, so effectively “everyone” has them. The stuff you get later in the game are completely new weapons, and these don’t provide more power, just more options.

That’s for weapons. For abilities, yes, the longer you play, the more you will have. BUT, as players level up, they’re automatically matched with other players who are at similar levels (so ‘majors’ fight against other ‘majors’, not against ‘privates’). that’s if you’re relying on the default ‘find me a game’ functionality, but if you’d rather, you can filter for you own games, and then opt into matches where other players are higher level than you. [/QUOTE]

It seems most things have been thought of then. The way you describe the xp system seems like a good idea in theory but you need to take into acccount how it will work in practice. I have mentioned this in a previous thread but will bring it up again.

By using a similar rank system to Quake Live you effectively reduce the player base of the game. If there are for example 50,000 people playing and there are 25,000 privates and 20,000 captains and 5000 experts you have 3 different groups. These groups will never interact with each other unless they rank up or choose to play against higher ranked players. Regarldess there will always be new people to the game so throughout the games life span there will always be segregation.

For people not to notice this segregation you will need huge amounts of players in each bracket or you will find certain brackets being empty forcing people to play against higher players or not playing at all. Its also going to make it harder when you launch the game as it will give the impression that no one is playing and that the game is a failure giving it negative word of mouth.

I hope you take this into consideration.


(Rahdo) #79

Those are all very good points, and it is something we think about quite a bit :slight_smile: It’s why we will allow lower level players to opt in to higher level matches, because if you finally buy the game a year after it ships, most of the guys you’ve been playing with will all be at those high ranks. now of course, you’ll be able to play brink solo at that point, or co-op only (even with your high level buddies) and have a great time, but you will be at a disadvantage competitively. however, all the abilities that make you ‘stronger’ (slightly longer life meter, etc.) are the ones that you can earn very quickly (much like the weapon addons), and most of the high level stuff are completely new abilities. so if we balance that right, a low level guy, who’s skillful, should still be able to compete with high level guys fairly well. and so hopefully everyone can still play together… (what’s the ‘fingers crossed’ icon?)


(tokamak) #80

Or just let the match maker become increasingly less picky when it takes too long to find a match.