gadget variations?

(Sssaap) #41

Just to get back to the medic selfhealing-thingie

I don’t think medics not being able to heal themselfs scares off from playing medic after all.
All you’d have to do is having two medics sticking together.
BUT (considering competitive gaming) if you have to let one medic go with the engineer for example, he doesn’t have one who heals him, so granting him a slight healthboost seems reasonable to me.

(not that selfhealing is overpowered in ET…as attackers…well not even in defence imo :P)
Though I do not think that nerving the medic class a little is that bad (you never know about the upgrades…maybe you can upgrade your class in a way that doesn’t boost your assisting abilities but survival?)

(Qhullu) #42

medics should have an advantage in health since it is the only class that needs to put their ass into enemy field of fire for other than fighting purposes, and it is the only class that needs to pay attention to things other than killing people during firefights. otherwise medics will just stay out of firefights as much as possible, and (in pubs) choose to do risky revives even more rarely than in rtcw/et, if ever.

(Sssaap) #43

Actually all that selfhealing made them predestined for firefights, because they only had to survive and could just heal up again.
At least in ET the engineers are by far more into fights than medics are (because medics use them as cover to stay alive)
And if there is no engineer at all they tend to fight only(if it was only for that exception^^) :smiley:
So if there is some spawnprotection, just as it is in ET, there won’t be any problem with that, just get some skills at dodging :wink:
There’s nothing risky about reviving, if you got the timing, movement, reflexes or the right tactic WHEN to revive (and in case of competitive playing - WHO :P)

(I’m not saying healing overall is useless, just that in a teambased game - yes there is even teamplay on pubs - a person shouldn’t have such a major advantage over others. It’s not like you find anything but medics on decent cough ET-public servers except 1 or two rifles or once a field ops. the majority tends to play medic, just for the reason of selfhealing.

(Qhullu) #44

if you are playing against people who don’t have great aim and don’t gib their kills you’re right, otherwise most revives result in you absorbing some bullets no matter how good your timing, movement or reflexes are or when during the one and a half second(less if you count the time it takes to reach the corpse) window you choose to go for the revive. at least that has been my experience during the 9 or so years of rtcw/et, it may be i’m just not good enough to be a good medic and not end up at the top of “damage received” stats.

the only server i’ve played in that was mostly medics is bio, but at least then it was a tdm server, not an objective server. in objective servers with good team play, the ratio of medics to the rest is pretty much the same as in clan play, and depends on the stage of the map.

of course it’s possible that Brink is designed to have fewer medics per team than rtcw/et, something like 1 medic per 2 other classes. in which case it’s possible that fixing what isn’t broken is a good idea.

(tokamak) #45

Thankfully it’s half as effective to heal yourself as it is to heal someone else in Brink.

(Jamieson) #46

Yes thats right, I do say it is pointless and thats why I never liked the idea of a rank system in the first place, because now it is about ranks/xp/achievements not like the good old days when you could measure your gamplay with how well you were doing in a match or how much fun you were having.

Do you really think its going to help? Was it really that big of a problem in the first place? I tell you now all your going to do is cripple the medics who help people anyway and make more rambo medics, instead of 1 rambo medic you now get 2 medics being lone wolfs and being rambo’s together, all you need is a friend or a clan mate and your sorted. So what you have just done is made the problem twice as bad, well done.

Restrictions are not going to work, they never do, People play the way they do because its their pereferred style of play. when I play medic my main objective is to keep myself alive and to do as much damage to the other team as possible, This probably sounds selfish but I really don’t trust anybody else to do it. By keeping myself alive I know I can keep the team alive, I will of course revive mission critical people and make sure people have health but that can wait till after the enemy players are put down for good, therefore eliminating the threat.

Also If i see somebody die in a stupid place then i’m not going to risk myself for them because there is a good chance I end up dead to. Another thing I’m not going to revive someone new to the game if they just got dropped withou putting up a fight, there is no point, soon as I revive them there is a good chance they will get put down again so why risk it or waste the time. Sounds Harsh but I will revive skilled people first because thats how you win games, if its safe to revive others then fair enough but in the heat of the moment you need to prorities who you revive, specially as GDF, there is logic to the rambo medic style of play in which I just described.

With the new system though you have just made it less likely for me to help others because I simply wont be able to, Like I said I will keep myself alive first because if i’am dead I can’t help or do anything.

(Qhullu) #47

that doesn’t necessarily lead to people giving a higher percentage of their health packs to others though. the way i understand the system in Brink is there is a cooldown after dropping a medpack, and whether it is picked up by you or someone else makes no difference.

in et it’s sometimes more important for the success of the attack to heal yourself than it is to drop packs for someone else you can just revive moments later anyway, for example if you get behind cover with less than 10 hp left it makes sense to eat a medpack or two depending on what’s happening with the rest of the attacking team. if you can’t do that, i fear it will just make medics want to stay out of the fight until they aren’t killable with one bullet to the leg. so making self healing less effective may just prolong the amount of time medics choose to stay safe instead of encouraging them to heal others more.

i think a system in which healing others doesn’t affect a medics ability heal themself would work nicely if the goal is encouraging medics to heal others more while not making medics be too afraid of bullets. then it would be just a matter of finding and balancing the right rates for both systems, and yes the level 4 medic’ing skills in et are just way over the top (you are never even close to running out of mana to conjure medpacks).

(tokamak) #48

Who said it was a restriction? I could just say that it’s twice as effective to heal a teammate than it does to heal yourself. Happy then?

And fine, let the players who are selfish cripple their teams. These things aren’t to encourage team play, they’re here to reward team play. Two different things. The team that helps each other out will have twice as many resources as the team of selfish individuals.

[QUOTE=Qhullu;223743]in et it’s sometimes more important for the success of the attack to heal yourself than it is to drop packs for someone else you can just revive moments later anyway, for example if you get behind cover with less than 10 hp left it makes sense to eat a medpack or two depending on what’s happening with the rest of the attacking team. if you can’t do that, i fear it will just make medics want to stay out of the fight until they aren’t killable with one bullet to the leg. so making self healing less effective may just prolong the amount of time medics choose to stay safe instead of encouraging them to heal others more.
[/QUOTE]

The healing is just as effective, 1 heal =100% it only costs 50% less ‘energy’ to heal a team-mate. Self-healing isn’t made impossible. It only means that players who keep the stuff to themselves will have less to hand out.

(Jamieson) #49

[QUOTE=tokamak;223757]Who said it was a restriction? I could just say that it’s twice as effective to heal a teammate than it does to heal yourself. Happy then?

And fine, let the players who are selfish cripple their teams. These things aren’t to encourage team play, they’re here to reward team play. Two different things. The team that helps each other out will have twice as many resources as the team of selfish individuals.

The healing is just as effective, 1 heal =100% it only costs 50% less ‘energy’ to heal a team-mate. Self-healing isn’t made impossible. It only means that players who keep the stuff to themselves will have less to hand out.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Exedore;223608]I was going to ask you to post more about why, so thanks for editing it in. :slight_smile:

It’s a valid point. It is indeed restrictive, but the onus is on us to make sure it isn’t annoying.[/QUOTE]

Exedore From SD recognised it is restricitve, and it is, If in ET and ETQW I can heal myself just as well as other and in Brink I can’t then I would say thats a restriction.

You can’t know for sure that it will help people though, Medics now have the choice of sitting back and waiting for people to die or get injured and then healing them or running into the action and getting killed themself so they can help people.

The old system you could fight battles and help people while keeping yourself alive. The fact is though most medics will heal themselves first then try to help people, with this system people will find medics not being able to heal them etc.

(H0RSE) #50

with this system people will find medics not being able to heal them etc.

They will also figure out which Medics to stay away from, and which ones are actually playing their role.

(Jamieson) #51

You really don’t understand do you, The main objective of any FPS objective team based game with spawn times is to stay alive, Because when you are dead you can not do anything.

Anyone who has played as a medic knows the main priority is to stay alive so you can heal and revive your teammates, I would love to see a dead medic have an impact but its not going to happen now is it.

So medics can try and help people and die quickly or stay alive and heal themselves but not others because they run out of packs to give out. Either way your medics will find it hard to help you.

(tokamak) #52

[QUOTE=Jamieson;223767]You really don’t understand do you, The main objective of any FPS objective team based game with spawn times is to stay alive, Because when you are dead you can not do anything.

Anyone who has played as a medic knows the main priority is to stay alive so you can heal and revive your teammates, I would love to see a dead medic have an impact but its not going to happen now is it.

So medics can try and help people and die quickly or stay alive and heal themselves but not others because they run out of packs to give out. Either way your medics will find it hard to help you.[/QUOTE]

The medics who don’t need to ‘waste’ healing on themselves will be the best healers a team can wish for. Healing yourself is one way to stay alive, not getting hurt is another. Not getting hurt is the role of the medic here.

Though while we’re talking about perks/trinkets/upgrades, an upgrade that allows a medic to get a slight heal whenever he heals another person would be awesome.

There’s a couple of different ways in which you can play the healer role. You can stand back and be a living supply crate, just keep dropping the packs and make sure your team mates can count on you and can run back to that spot whenever they need help. In that case the ‘heal while healing’ perk might not be the best one and you rather opt for one that allows you to throw out more packs (higher proefficiency).

At least, I really hope that the players are being so spoiled for choices they’ll have a hard time getting the right combo. Rather than “I take the 5 perks that make me the best medic”, it should be “which out of the 25 medic perks fit my playstyle the best?”

(Jamieson) #53

I fail to see how your logic is correct, So let me get this striaght your expecting medics to be right up on the front lines with the rest of the team and then you expect them not to get hurt? I means bloody hell Im good at dodging but I’m not ****ing Neo. Seriously I thought you were stupid now I know you are.

(tokamak) #54

The medics who focus on healing their teammates know that they can’t afford to get hurt, that means they’ll playing in a different way than the rambo medic who is bound to get hurt, who then needs to heal himself and won’t have anything left to heal others.

(Jamieson) #55

I know, in theory that sounds great but I know from experience that just does not happen.

As a medic if you are to far back as you imply by not being a ‘rambo medic’ then you wont be able to revive people. Professional killers gib after every kill and unless your right up close already in combat its next to impossible to prevent this from happening.

But you go on believing medics sat back hiding behind cover will work, it wont because the other team will kill your teammates and then come and kill you. Strength in numbers, its better if everyone moves in together, medics included to overwhelm the enemy and gain area dominance. once the fight is over gib your enemy and pick up any teammates who have not been gibbed, regroup do objective and while this is happening push up to prepare for next wave and defend your obj people.

(tokamak) #56

I’m not saying too far back. A proper medic constantly needs to weigh the situation and the risks that come with helping the players. The more he gets hit, the less he’ll be able to help out his teammates. By playing an active combat role aka the rambo medic, you’re putting yourself out there more and take more damage=less healing. That’s fine, you probably manage to be an asset in a different way but you’ll be a worse healer.

(LyndonL) #57

We need the MP7 medic gun from Killing Floor that can shoot across the battle zone. Problem solved :slight_smile:

Unfortunately it won’t make it in since the game is going for realistic tech.

(nilco) #58

Jamie dont bother arguing with them, they wont give up.

For the record Im with jamie on this one, a dead medic is a useless medic, a camping medic is as good as a dead medic (as you rly dont do anything expet hand out med-packs and sit behind a crate)

If your just gonna sit back and not take damage you are usless, you can revive your teammates 1000 times in a 20 minute match and still lose, if your just gonna revive and heal then your better off playing a role thats is USEFUL, soilder (any combat class will do) > camping healer medic.

Bad medic which revives and heals and camps :

1 revive & 1 full health heal

Good medic that can self-heal :

1 kill & 1 revive

By my logic I would rather have the self-healing medic on my team, why? Because the medic can STILL revive even when he has the ability to heal himself without lame restrictions.

imo a medic that ONLY focuses on healing others and reviving fallen teammates is as good as a covert ops 500 meters away from the battle who hasent deployed a radar.

(Reanimator) #59

[QUOTE=nilco;223779]
imo a medic that ONLY focuses on healing others and reviving fallen teammates is as good as a covert ops 500 meters away from the battle who hasent deployed a radar.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a horrible medic :rolleyes:

(Jamieson) #60

No I agree with Nilco here, if all your going to do is stand back and hand out healthpacks you might as well be a supply crate, a pretty bad one at that to I don’t see medics handing out ammo and grenades as well.

Its very rare that I ever throw health packs at anybody other than myself. My main priority is to clear the object and then I revive people. If they want health they can fall back abit and restock at my supply crate, although if its an inside objective (no crate) then I will divert some HP packs but I still keep myself alive first.

Tech is totally different, much more defensive style. Usually after each fight I stroy down to get full HP then throw down 2 stroyent cells to get full ammo. Can then use the rest for other people. Reviving usually only happens after the fight so I can revive everybody and they can stroy down so need to give cells. Usually prioritise my cells for Hypers. Medic is different though, you need to use your HP packs more wisely because there is no Stroyent system and the instant revive requires you to think and act fast.