Everyone complained about phantom

[Alphafox1]

Forum moderator does nothing but moderate the forums for readability and misconduct. Their views don’t reflect the views of SD.

While you are true I totally agree with Kaori

[quote=“Ghosthree3;55347”]Forum moderator does nothing but moderate the forums for readability and misconduct. Their views don’t reflect the views of SD.

But what they say carries at least some weight and his reasoning behind hating phantom is a matter of personal opinion. Just seems unprofessional if you ask me.
[/quote]

[ttownjoe1]

spawn points need a little rebalancing in regards to the ease of setting up spawn camps and/or the spawn invulnerability timer should be increased slightly. I think the devs will eventually get this right with enough feedback.

[Badger_Commander]

[quote=“Ghosthree3;55347”]Forum moderator does nothing but moderate the forums for readability and misconduct. Their views don’t reflect the views of SD.

But what they say carries at least some weight and his reasoning behind hating phantom is a matter of personal opinion. Just seems unprofessional if you ask me.
[/quote]

It’s hard to take anything you’re saying seriously when you’re suggesting that Amerika ‘hates’ phantom.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Ghosthree3;55347”]Forum moderator does nothing but moderate the forums for readability and misconduct. Their views don’t reflect the views of SD.

But what they say carries at least some weight and his reasoning behind hating phantom is a matter of personal opinion. Just seems unprofessional if you ask me.
[/quote]

My views are entirely my own. The minute I can’t express my viewpoint because I am a mod is the minute I quit being a mod. I am a volunteer who helps out and what I say has no impact on SD/Nexon.

I am also not, “anti-Phantom”. I am anti-cheap kills. I’ve explained, in depth, what I dislike (cheap kills), what I like about phantom and how to do well as phantom without relying on cheap kills. I actually really like the class as it offers me up on a plate the type of playstyle I like (flanking).

Skill is one of the important factors to talk about when it comes to usefulness of a merc, as of right now phantom is useless anywhere except pubs, but even in pubs he still sucks. Playing as phantom on a minimum 10 server would get you wrecked, this is because people greater then lvl 10 know how he works. Btw why give phantom a melee weapon when you can’t even use it thanks to the new system? What makes melee cheap? Its the enemys fault for not being aware is it not? I feel as if phantom was just balanced around people with less then 30 hours game time, which is the wrong audience to balance around.

Considering I went 60-10 on a min level 10 Obj server a couple nights ago using Phantom I’d disagree with this. Granted, it was a single good game but dropping 45-50 on a min level 10 is pretty consistent playing the class the way I do. However, I do agree that he’s not very good in a competition match. But that was true before the last patch as he’d take up a Fragger, Nader or Skyhammer slot which most teams wouldn’t want to do.

[RuleofBooKz]

the katana is still better than any other melee in game its just now to be used like all the other melee weapons. u get into a dual and u unload your primary then secondary and while you are circling for a kill u get the quick melee in. In this scenario the katana wins

it is as Amerika has already said: the katana is just no longer “EZ Mode” where u shield up get invis and tank rush anything in the game for a certain kill that takes no skill to pull off.

ITs not reasonable that any class can get many mnay kills using zero skill - defeats the purpose of the game. ITs cheap and frustrating to play against. Hence the nerf

I think it was a good nerf and with the info that melee is going to be tweaked its clear things will fall into a nice balance shortly

[B_Montiel]

[quote=“Ghosthree3;55347”]Forum moderator does nothing but moderate the forums for readability and misconduct. Their views don’t reflect the views of SD.

But what they say carries at least some weight and his reasoning behind hating phantom is a matter of personal opinion. Just seems unprofessional if you ask me.
[/quote]

He’s not hating Phantom, he’s just exposing that Phantom received what looks to him as a fairly well done nerf.

Honestly, what people rant mostly upon his nerf is the melee turn speed. And this is not a sole Phantom nerf. That’s the overall melee system that is being reworked. It will be reworked further, that’s for sure. But it is necessary. The former melee was just total random.

In my mind, if they had solely nerfed Phantom without reworking the melee system, pretty much no one would have complained. Invisibility cooldown increase, shield totally absorbing 80+ dmg attacks were beyond necessary updates. The slightly more visible cloak is the only thing that will need some tweaks in the Phantom nerf from my point of view.

Of course, since pretty much 95% of pre-patch Phantom’s players were playing it in a not smart way (backdoor a bunch of enemies, then let the melee dice resolve the fight for you) and abusing cheap moves, they feel homeless now.

[Amerika]

Actually, I don’t like the nerf too much. I explained in a previous post how I would have changed him which would have left melee alone other than it would be easier to die and it would remove the shield abuse you can do in gunfights (which is what I consider OP). I’m actually asking to nerf my own playstyle because it’s pretty unfair when used correctly.

[Ghosthree3]

I feel like making the shield to deactivate faster, but be a requirement before attacking, would be a good move. Then make it more invisible. Also make it so that it does the disabling animation when it times out.

[RuleofBooKz]

its a sign of a fair and reasonable player when they will suggest things not necessarily always in their own interests but in the games greater interests as a whole. So i salute that.

Also i like your new disclaimer. Just be aware, from my experience, as soon as u wear the badge / uniform that is what people do tend to see and focus on.

For example: I like how forums are often called pubs. (As in Bars). Much of what happens in forums is just like what would happen in a pub. lots of discussion. Bit of unruly behavior now and then etc. Now imagine ur a uniformed cop, or even a security guard, and u walk into a bar. Of course due to ur badge, uniform and hammer (erm i mean gun in this example) people will interact with u different. It aint easy being a cop

[B_Montiel]

Skill is one of the important factors to talk about when it comes to usefulness of a merc, as of right now phantom is useless anywhere except pubs, but even in pubs he still sucks. Playing as phantom on a minimum 10 server would get you wrecked, this is because people greater then lvl 10 know how he works. Btw why give phantom a melee weapon when you can’t even use it thanks to the new system? What makes melee cheap? Its the enemys fault for not being aware is it not? I feel as if phantom was just balanced around people with less then 30 hours game time, which is the wrong audience to balance around.

Believe it or not, melee was already cheap even before Phantom arrived. There were so many ways of abusing it. As long as you stayed in the range of your melee weapon, it was a pretty much guaranteed hit without aiming properly. And there were some strict abuse of it, like instant hits and back over-head hits (Chivalry terminology suits pretty well here) and fkn BEYBLADE. Now the new system requires more aiming in your melee attack, which is not a bad thing. It’s too stiff and sudden I admit, but that’s a pretty good start to work with.

[Amerika]

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;55393”]its a sign of a fair and reasonable player when they will suggest things not necessarily always in their own interests but in the games greater interests as a whole. So i salute that.

Also i like your new disclaimer. Just be aware, from my experience, as soon as u wear the badge / uniform that is what people do tend to see and focus on.

For example: I like how forums are often called pubs. (As in Bars). Much of what happens in forums is just like what would happen in a pub. lots of discussion. Bit of unruly behavior now and then etc. Now imagine ur a uniformed cop, or even a security guard, and u walk into a bar. Of course due to ur badge, uniform and hammer (erm i mean gun in this example) people will interact with u different. It aint easy being a cop[/quote]

Yup, I completely agree with your assessment which is why I added the new signature. I would rather be viewed as a janitor who does some cleanup work when necessary than a cop who is here to bust everyone if they slip up.

Also, thanks. Truly appreciate that.

-edit- Just updated my sig with that because I find it kind of funny

[B_Montiel]

[quote=“Amerika;55400”]

Yup, I completely agree with your assessment which is why I added the new signature. I would rather be viewed as a janitor who does some cleanup work when necessary than a cop who is here to bust everyone if they slip up.

Also, thanks. Truly appreciate that.

-edit- Just updated my sig with that because I find it kind of funny :)[/quote]

I’m sorry to go further off topic but…
https://static.orain.org/allthetropes.orain.org/images/b/b6/Scruffy_2_9337.jpg

[Amerika]

Hahahahhaa, brilliant and I think I love you!!!

[novelTimepiece]

[quote=“Amerika;55057”]
Being able to more easily flank, especially without taking damage and sometimes not even being seen and shoot people in the back constantly is amazing. Seriously, go actually USE HIS GUN instead of trying to melee and you’ll figure out quite quickly how powerful he is in his current form.[/quote]

I’m not sure how you can say it’s easy to flank with him unless your opponent’s volume is muted. The sound his armor makes is RIDICULOUSLY loud, you can hear him coming well before he comes around a corner. On top of that he’s VERY easy to see now. I actually have an easier time flanking with any other character because of how loud the refractive armor is. At least with other characters I don’t give out an audible warning I’m coming.

He really has no use now, he’s suppose to be a killer but he’s now where NEAR as competent at this job as Fragger. He has WAY less hp, a worse gun, no killing/damaging ability (IE grenades) and his “stealth” is anything but. I see absolutely NO reason to pick him over any other merc.

[Amerika]

[quote=“novelTimepiece;55748”][quote=“Amerika;55057”]
Being able to more easily flank, especially without taking damage and sometimes not even being seen and shoot people in the back constantly is amazing. Seriously, go actually USE HIS GUN instead of trying to melee and you’ll figure out quite quickly how powerful he is in his current form.[/quote]

I’m not sure how you can say it’s easy to flank with him unless your opponent’s volume is muted. The sound his armor makes is RIDICULOUSLY loud, you can hear him coming well before he comes around a corner. On top of that he’s VERY easy to see now. I actually have an easier time flanking with any other character because of how loud the refractive armor is. At least with other characters I don’t give out an audible warning I’m coming.

He really has no use now, he’s suppose to be a killer but he’s now where NEAR as competent at this job as Fragger. He has WAY less hp, a worse gun, no killing/damaging ability (IE grenades) and his “stealth” is anything but. I see absolutely NO reason to pick him over any other merc.[/quote]

I’ve mentioned a few times that’s where you need to play intelligently. The cloak is used, right now, more for it’s absorb and less likelihood of being shot at than anything else. You can more easily get into flanking positions by crossing areas and not getting shot as often (still harder to see) and having the absorb. If you know a spawn wave is coming (saw it or you’re playing Stopwatch where it’s timed exactly) you can hide, without your cloak on, wait for them to pass, turn it on and engage.

Granted, I am not a fan of the sound increase or the increased visibility. I don’t think it’s needed and I hope it gets adjusted back to at least what it was (definitely not full invis though)…but I’d like to see the absorb take a serious nerf as a trade-off. I’d rather him be a glass cannon flanker than a tank flanker. But his mechanics, when used properly, are still quite beneficial.

He’s also not in the same category of merc as Fragger. He’s kind of his own thing but if anything he’s a recon class.

[ludicrousBlast]

[quote=“Amerika;55169”]People need to stop confusing “useless” with how they played Phantom. One aspect of his game, the weaker part of his game as you’d NEVER do extremely well playing him melee only, got nerfed because it was pretty cheap.

The strong aspect of his game and arguably the “broken” part of it is still going strong. Getting the first shots off on people or making them waste bullets into your shield while also having an ability that lets you escape is pretty darn amazing. I should just go upload about 30 matches in a row playing Phantom using what I’ve cited. It would then be pretty hard to argue that he is useless at that point.

Yes, melee is weak right now but all melee is weak. But he has a Kek and a cloak + A FREAKING SHIELD. You should use it

-edit- Shoe just said on stream that melee is going to be adjusted soon in regards to the slow turn speed.[/quote]

Turn speed has been fixed, I personally think that if his katana range is extended a tiny bit more (being a katana after all), and his invisibility reverted back (not the cooldown or shield, those are good as is, just the visibility and audio) he would be more than viable.

[avidCow]

Except that the cooldown has been almost doubled and it’s also more visible. Don’t get me wrong I think the cooldown nerf was good. Not in combination with everything else though.

Small changes, one at a time, would have been a better strategy. But no, they had to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[triteTongs]

It’s exactly what I figured.

Melee turn limit needed to be removed for low damage weapons, and tweaked for high damage weapons. They did that and now the melee feels a lot better.

Now they just have to adjust the cloak cool down by 2 seconds. His cloak is not very special since you can still see him. Reducing it will make it more combat effective (in all his play styles).

He’s still pretty easy to take out when you see him running at you, so it’s not like the cool down will break him. It’ll just let him score more instead of hiding in a corner waiting for his cloak to recharge.

[avidCow]

[quote=“triteTongs;57503”]It’s exactly what I figured.

Melee turn limit needed to be removed for low damage weapons, and tweaked for high damage weapons. They did that and now the melee feels a lot better.

Now they just have to adjust the cloak cool down by 2 seconds. His cloak is not very special since you can still see him. Reducing it will make it more combat effective (in all his play styles).

He’s still pretty easy to take out when you see him running at you, so it’s not like the cool down will break him. It’ll just let him score more instead of hiding in a corner waiting for his cloak to recharge. [/quote]

I’d prefer they just go back to how it was and make him harder to see. He is supposed to be stealthy recon guy after all. The damage gate is gone and he has fewer health points. Give him a break, SD.

[bumbertyr]

[quote=“avidCow;57508”][quote=“triteTongs;57503”]It’s exactly what I figured.

Melee turn limit needed to be removed for low damage weapons, and tweaked for high damage weapons. They did that and now the melee feels a lot better.

Now they just have to adjust the cloak cool down by 2 seconds. His cloak is not very special since you can still see him. Reducing it will make it more combat effective (in all his play styles).

He’s still pretty easy to take out when you see him running at you, so it’s not like the cool down will break him. It’ll just let him score more instead of hiding in a corner waiting for his cloak to recharge. [/quote]

I’d prefer they just go back to how it was and make him harder to see. He is supposed to be stealthy recon guy after all. The damage gate is gone and he has fewer health points. Give him a break, SD.[/quote]

the problem is they decided to nerf the hell out of him before red eye was released.