[et:qw]: rambo medic

(Kendle) #41

Actually you don’t just need better aim, you need hugely better aim (in ET currently). The non-Med, on 100HP, takes 4 (SMG bodyshot) bullets to bring down. The Med takes 5 - 6 (depending on XP if we’re talking pubs). That means the non-Med needs between 25 - 50% better aim than the Med to be equivalent.

Given 2 players of equal ability the one with the most health will ALWAYS win, that’s why people play Med.

Personally I’d leave the Meds re-gen and self-heal alone and just start them on the same HP as everyone else. It wouldn’t stop the camping Med sitting on a stack of packs, which also happens, but it’d stop the “Rambo” version that runs around a map with impunity because he take a bullet or 2 more than anyone else.

(amazinglarry) #42

Kendle I think you’re missing a relatively important point, and that is the only way a player on the opposing team will have 100 health points is if they have ZERO medics. The only way a medic will have 140 health points is if there are several other medics on the team.

From what I remember, if you have enough medics on both teams, the Medics will have 140hp and non-medics will have 123 or 127hp I believe? I may be mistaken on the actual number but I do know that if a team has medics, everyone elses health increases.

It’s not as unbalanced as you make it sound.

As for your comment on a player with equal still to another, will always win if they have more health… that’s kind of true. I have a couple of friends who are on par with me and sometimes they’ll kick my ass playing as Engineers (while I’m a med) and vice versa. There are a lot of factors that play into a firefight. Strafing, aim, taking cover at the right times etc.

And I don’t follow your comment entirely with how you mean Medics take 5-6 shots depending on XP in pubs? What does XP have to do with how much health players have? As stated, it all depends on the number of medics on your team. Are you talking about faster health regen or people ‘needled’ up? Or is there a pub I don’t know about? Heheh, because I’ll be avoiding those.

(ayatollah) #43

I think you are missing the point of the definition of a rambo medic. A rambo medic is one who takes on all-comers and doesn’t look to aid teammates with health or revives. The problem with rambo meds is not when you are fighting against them but when they are on your team.

I think the discussion to nerf them all stems from the fact that it gives them less ability to go on a one man killing spree and allows them to backup the team more.

Most rambo meds on servers, pick medic because they can be self-reliant. They can supply themselves with health and pick up ammo from the downed enemy. This is the major frustration as you need people to be part of a team.

In QW however I don’t think the meds will be able to pick up Strogg weaponry, therefore they will need to stay with the team to get supplies off field ops, and can therefore throw packs to the team.

The Strogg technician on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. He can supply himself with health and ammo, therefore could mean this is the most likely class for rambo meds to pick. I do recall though that SD have said that there isn’t as much XP garnered from kills as there is from helping the team, ie, giving health, so for the Strogg tech to advance and get better they must give health/ammo and revive teammates.

It is all a game of swings and roundabouts, and the fact that you people seem to think that SD has learnt nothing in the 3-4 years since W:ET’s release is laughable. The balancing will be a major priority, as they stated as a reason for the delay from Fall 2006, and I’m sure medics/techs will be on the list of to do’s.

Bottom line is, I am sure SD have thought about these things and you don’t even know what measures have been taken to aid in this scenario but I am sure there are some.

(Gringo) #44

The more xp a medic has the more his hp goes up with the max limit bein 156 if I can remember correctly. This is in relation to his medic level he has acquired. I was not aware/am not sure that the number of medics per team increase hp all round. Is that what ur sayin?

(Kendle) #45

Long time since I played ET, so I’m pulling numbers from my defuddled brain I must admit, but doesn’t a level something Med get extra starting health? I thought a Med can have something up to 154HP max depending on everything being in place in let that happen. Could be wrong.

Fact remains, given 2 players of equal ability (positioning, aim, strafing ability, tactical awareness, whatever else you want to throw into the mix) and the one with the most health wins, simple as.

Like I say, play DOD:S as an example of a game which simply does not have a “rambo” Class of any kind and who’s community forums world-wide are utterly devoid of this kind of thread. It’s entirely possible to have Classes with diverse skill-sets without any being better than any other. I hope ET:QW will be one of them, because I’m sorry but ET just isn’t. :wink:

(amazinglarry) #46

Erm… yeah I guess at least right now I must be confusing RtCW with ET in regards to having more medics on your team increases overall team health. Gah. None of the regular players I’ve asked to verify have even heard of that. I feel like I’m a crazy person now.

And ayatollah I’m not missing the point of what a Rambo Medic is, as I’ve been playing long enough to know and I’m often called one. I never run by fallen teammates without raising, but in regards to self preservation, if it’s raising a crappy player or meddin myself up to maybe kill the enemy player and then raise the player… I’m going to do the latter.

(Kendle) #47

I also thought number of Meds had an effect on everyone else’s starting HP (tho again could be remembering too far back in time!), but whichever way you cut it the Med generally can take a bullet more than a non-Med, which is a huge advantage and quite simply the crutch that lots of players who are not as good as they think they are rely on.

All of this however is assuming ET type weapon equivalence. In ET almost everyone has an SMG. DOD:S achieves balance by everyone having completely different weapons (1-shot rifles, powerful “heavy” autos and woefully inaccurate “light” autos).

If the ET:QW Med has an inferior weapon to everyone else, he’ll perhaps be sufficiently disadvantaged to make the Rambo Med of ET fame less evident.

(San_Pedro) #48

Maximum health for teammates is increased by number of medics on team. It is extra HP for every medic (only up to 4). The top HP anyone in ET can have is 156 (medic).

(B0rsuk) #49

I just hope medic won’t be the best offensive class in ET:QW. Recent 30 question interview suggests otherwise (there’s no consensus about it among developers, meaning they’re most likely to leave it as it is). It would be a terrible shame if medics replaced Soldier/Agressor. I mean, Soldier gets a heavy assault rifle, but will it be enough to compete with medics ?

The problem isn’t that medics are able to kill, it’s that they may do it better than Soldiers, supposedly specialists in frontal attacks. They may take the purpose away from Soldiers. Let’s see how the balance turns out…

(signofzeta) #50

that’s why they gave the soldier the dynamite, or how it is called the HE charge/plasma charge.

I think in Wolf ET, medics can do soldier stuff, field ops can do covert ops sniping, but at a lesser degree.

My brother was using field ops vs some other class to snipe with smg because of the unlimited ammo supply.

When I played RTCW on xbox live, everyone was lieutenants just so they could spam grenades and have unlimited ammo. And also no rambo medics, because they don’t drop like 8 health packs due to xp.

And what choice do these so called Rambo Medcis have anyway, they probably were soldiers with panzerfaust to begin with, and their favorite server took out the panzerfaust forcing them to use alternative tactics, also forcing those “true” rambos (rambos to start with) to not die because panzer is the only weapon that could kill them.

Or maybe they just don’t know how to use heavy weapons excluding panzerfaust.

I normally use MG42 as my main heavy weapon because I get more kills with it than panzer or flame.

(NoControl) #51

I personally dislike rambo medics, they are just too unbalanced, medic is a support, not offensive class. When i play medic, i don’t play for frags, i play to give support on field, and i usually get medic lvl4 at around 250xp, compared to other medic who has 300 xp, medic lvl1 and light weapons at lvl4. Also it’s very annoying when those idiots can’t spare few med packs for teammates, cos they are afraid to have low charge bar when they’re soloing at the enemy lines.

Just sad.

(signofzeta) #52

Imagine in real life, we would win all the wars if we had rambo medics.

What I also notice with rambos is that they carry the opponents guns. So they could pick up more ammo from the dead opponent who drops the gun. So they don’t need to rely on field ops.

Basically I can only get engineering, and covert operations skills more than the other 3 if I’m on a team with all rambo medics.

Can’t get heavy weapons because they kill all of the guys before I even get to kill them.
Can’t get first aid because no point in reviving or giving health packs to medics, and also the team would be all medics anyway.
Can’t get signals because I can’t airstrike and arty dead bodies, or maybe I can, by delivering ammo.

For testing ETQW, not only do you have to test how the game is actually played, but how the game is actually NOT played, like using medics to do things soldiers would normally do, or any class that veers off course from its roles.

(B0rsuk) #53

This might lead to stupid situations like several medics escorting a soldier to the target. Is this just me, or soldiers hiding behind medics - and not the other way around - is ludicrous ? At the moment medics are the most aggressive class, period. Because they’re so self-sufficient, they’re also the most undisciplined. When you play a soldier with Mg42 or panzer, you need to use good spots to ambush or hold off enemy. But your reward for being kickass Mg42 defender is often than a bunch of medics moves the frontline forward. Result: unemployment.

I’m a bit worried about strogg technicians. I know stroggs will be more aggressive side, but technician is likely to become the ultimate rambo class. I would balance it by stopping them from regenerating stroyent packs - they would start with some initial amount and would have to take more from human bodies. Probably not going to happen.
Looks like medics will have more ammo problems in ETQW because strogg weapons are incompatible. But technicians ? Ugh.
At least the most selfish people can now play Oppressor without being approached by ammo starved teammates.

It’s a bit sad, but I developed a playing style where I pretend not to notice medics. Asking medic for help often gets you killed (when he chooses not to help). If I assume there are no medics, I won’t be disappointed by lack of help. Plus, you value your health more and play more carefully.

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #54

Is this just me, or soldiers hiding behind medics - and not the other way around - is ludicrous ? [/quote]

Why is it so important to you that the soldier be the dominant assault class? I’m not criticizing your opinion, I am asking. I feel this is different than saying get rid of rambo medics.
Won’t there always be a good number of medics on a competitive offensive push? Their revive and health ability is key to sustaining a push against a decent defense. In the two previous games, medics basically escorted the engineers for the dyno plant. Now it looks like they will escort the soldier.

I personally just want to feel like I’m in a fair fight when 1v1 fighting a medic. Right now I feel a juiced up medic has an advantage.

(signofzeta) #55

Medics escorting engineers is one thing.

Medics who are invincible escorting soldiers who deal lots of damage is another. Hopefully there is a way around that.

(B0rsuk) #56

That’s not what I meant. If Soldiers have a role to play, they should (usually) do it better than Medics. No class should be strictly better than other.

Won’t there always be a good number of medics on a competitive offensive push? Their revive and health ability is key to sustaining a push against a decent defense.

More precisely, it’s their selfheal ability that makes the biggest difference. Usually medics do most of the killing, not teammates healed by medics. From my last games…
Axis on Rail Gun: 7 medics, 0 engineers, 1 covert ops, 2 soldiers, 2 field ops.
Allies on Battery: 6 medics, 2 engineers, 4 cover ops (not my fault), 1 soldier.

The class distribution is very biased towards medics at the moment. All other classes quickly lose usefulness once you reach critical mass. Artillery is capped and unlimited ammo doesn’t help dead men. Field ops can’t really take medikits from killed enemies.

Medics are the best choice for many purposes:

  • sustained push/strong defence (depends on layout, but mg42/panzer or artillery are very situational)

  • sabotage and lone wolfing behind enemy lines. You can heal yourself between fights and resupply well enough with enemy weapons. Certain details lead me to believe medics weren’t originally meant to excell at lone wolfing. Covert ops were. Medic has -1 ammo clip, covert op has +1 clip

  • direct combat.

With so many uses, medics are almost a no-brainer.

The game does have certain flaws, for sure. Now that 90% of players are hardcore (and usually medics), flamethrower is usually used by teamkillers. I wish it was a joke ! Certain static MGs arent’ used. Truck barriers on Gold Rush are marginally useful, except for the 1st one before tank blows the bank doors. I don’t have problems accepting that medics are a bit too powerful.

In the two previous games, medics basically escorted the engineers for the dyno plant. Now it looks like they will escort the soldier.

What bothers me is that engineer wasn’t supposed to be a killing machine, so it didn’t look so ludicrous.

I personally just want to feel like I’m in a fair fight when 1v1 fighting a medic. Right now I feel a juiced up medic has an advantage.

Same here. I’d like medics changed in such way that their healing ability doesn’t boost their direct combat ability.

(signofzeta) #57

at least rambo medics are better than what I recently did. On those servers that drop ammo/medics when their respective classes die.

I first played as medic, then rushed in rambo and died. I switched to field ops, then rushed in and picked up my own med packs when i was medic, then ramboed as field ops and died, then switched to medic. I pick up my own ammo when I was medic. Cycle continues

Problem here is that I was xp farming. I get first aid and signals by picking up my own ammo/medkits.

Another cheap thing, a rambo medic can choose field ops, distribute ammo packs near spawn until no more charge, switch to medic, kill himself, and get his own ammo and get signal while he is at it. At least no one stoops so low to do such a thing.

(McAfee) #58

I rather spend the round doing the objectives and killing others…
Let me re-phrase that, I’d rather play “Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3” than do what you described over-and-over again just to get some XP.

Isn’t it easier to stand at one safe position near spawn, switch to ammo packs, open console, and do +attack so that it just stays there dropping ammo. Then you can just go watch a movie or something. Wow, you can play ET and watch a move at the same time, that should be real fun.

Or better yet. In case something happens, why not tell a friend to watch the game for you… Or even better, why not telling him to actually play. Hmm sounds like loads of fun, I’m going to ask a few people to fill in for me, that way I can have fun in ET without actually having to do anything.

(nUllSkillZ) #59

Some features could be depending on Auras or Regions.
Especailly health pack self feeding velocity could be depending on how near teammates (other classes than medic) are or have been (time and space wise).

(McAfee) #60

We can remove health packs alltogether and use something similar to the Quake 4 Single Player. But I think that is mod material.