I don’t think anyone’s doubting this game is set for competition as it stands - I don’t think Apples was making that point.
The point is SD need to make the changes, or every league will have their own ruleset and that’s a great way to limit the scope for competition.
We really need folks on this forum, Brink TV, ESL, Bash & Slash etc to encourage SD to make the changes, and not all go off in our directions.
IMO, defensive spawns, hack and hack reversal timings needs to be revised.
And Competition mode should enforce all abilities off. We’ll never agree whether some abilities should be in or out, so just taking them all out I think will mean fewer players are turned away from playing this competitively.
What are these left, right, down, things in the ability lists? Assume they are related to binds somehow. Assume you can still use your own key-binds though? Is left ability 1, down ability 2 and right ability 3 or somethig like that?
Your only allowed 3 active abilities correct, do any classes have more than 3 available and if so how is this handled if they are all picked for us?
[I]edit: OK, loaded the config and tried it out and see how the left right and down works (I guess these are equivalant to abilities 1,2 and 3).
On my second question about any clases having more than 3 transfer supplies is effectvly banned even though it’s not on the ban list because it’s not in the config (and there’s no room for it anyway because all 3 slots are taken). So you are effectivly dictating to everyone which abilities are the most important, at least as far as being a medic is concerned[/I]
Im completely against the removal of self resurrection. Learn to gib. Gibbing is vital in competition.
As for SD they need to allow more modification simple, you can mod simple settings like spawn times and stuff you open the door for solid competition play.
The game is terrific with some tweaks.
Sadly, no level 5 perks is the most retarded thing I have heard yet.
One of the things I dislike about making everyone exactly the same is it takes away from the need to compromise (and therefore strategize) when picking which abilities which team member will be playing with.
I agree you shouldn’t have to level your character up in order to build him, but having to chose which abilities each team member would pick adds a strategic element to ability selection. Since everyone has every available ability no matter which class you pick that’s gone (plus the smaller ability pool would mean most of it’s gone anyway).
Maybe in the future we will see a mod which, when running in competion mode, lets you create your character at the start of each match, choosing from abilities which have been allowed by the config, with the total number allowed each player also determined by the config (so you could lower the number from 20 since there are fewer over-all to choose from anyway, thus preserving the need to compromise on which ones you pick).
That said, of course this isn’t possible right now, and I suppose this is the best alternative.
As a person newly interested in competitive gaming and watching some matches, I am in agreement that some trial runs should be instigated versus to verify the balancing of these “perks” before simply eliminating them. Mainly to ease the barrier of entry and create an atmosphere that maintains as much of the spirit of the game as possible.
I disagree. It doesn’t promote methodical targeting and it definitely doesn’t reward it. You’re much better off ignoring the medic completely and killing the obj class and then gibbing him while dying to the medic.
It’s one of the few abilities I think needs to be removed for now. That combat intuition, homing beacon, adrenaline, self-res, extra land mine.
I would actually like silent footsteps disabled too.
I’m mostly amazed at the inability for the peeps in the ESL forum to even consider class limits. They talk about Adrenaline being spammable and not a single one say anything about restrictions.
Really?
And I really can’t take the people there seriously when people claim that Gatling turret is OP. No, I’m sorry, that’s just plain silly to say and just shows that you don’t have much experience of the game prior the cup. Is it really that impossible to have class restrictions? I think it would be worth trying out restricting medics to 1, maybe two. Currently, I just find it irritating when you’re up against 3 medics and they just… Spam revive syringes to eachother. It’s not that it’s OP or anything, but I don’t see how games can be fun for the viewer or the player if the game revolves around 3 medics running around reviving eachother. I haven’t really tried other class setups as of yet though, so I am not sure what the effects of the gameplay would be, but it would in the very least make attacking harder and increase the importance of classes co-operating with eachother and trying to stick together.
Furthermore, has there been any tests of Silent footsteps ACTUALLY silences footsteps or if it just affects the radar? Furthermore, why is it that Radar is so bad but hearing people is so right?
I just find it amusing that being able to use your ears appears to be oh so skillfulto most, using your game sense to detect people from afar while using your eyes, diverting attention from your target and radar during combat while still moving and using the SMART system (Seriously, I feel like I’m the only one using it during combat, people just seem to zickzack alot) to detect people from afar is so bad and doesn’t require skill.
I dont like it.
All this restrictions go to far.
If they restrict half of the abilitys it would be better to look for a other game to support.
They should leave brink as it is for the first couple tourneys and see how it works.
These guys are Megalowmania and think they now all best.
[QUOTE=Efrath;327560]I’m mostly amazed at the inability for the peeps in the ESL forum to even consider class limits. They talk about Adrenaline being spammable and not a single one say anything about restrictions.
Really?
[/QUOTE]
The point is: you can restrict abilities right now using server side commands, but there is no way to enforce a proper class- or bodytype limit, hence why they did not do it. With no working record feature it would be painful to prove someones using an illegal setup (screenshots? play with fraps on?).
I can see I won’t be enjoying watching comp games with all these ability bans. i would much rather have seen the comp scene develop tactics around these abilities and their counters, it would be much more interesting than Brink dumbed down to just another shooter.
The only stuff that makes sense is banning some overly defensive abilities like extra landmine tbh.
Furthermore, has there been any tests of Silent footsteps ACTUALLY silences footsteps or if it just affects the radar? Furthermore, why is it that Radar is so bad but hearing people is so right?
I just find it amusing that being able to use your ears appears to be oh so skillfulto most, using your game sense to detect people from afar while using your eyes, diverting attention from your target and radar during combat while still moving and using the SMART system (Seriously, I feel like I’m the only one using it during combat, people just seem to zickzack alot) to detect people from afar is so bad and doesn’t require skill.[/QUOTE]
Silent footsteps do work, but if you jump/slide/climb you will make noise.
As for the sound vs radar skill. It has nothing to do with skill… although there is more of a learning curve with maps and sounds especially with 3 different footstep sounds. It just simply has worked very well in many competitive FPS games. Sound is reliable, radar isn’t.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation there! I admittedly hadn’t considered that. I also admit that all the skill bans made me rage a little inside.
As for the sound vs radar skill. It has nothing to do with skill… although there is more of a learning curve with maps and sounds especially with 3 different footstep sounds. It just simply has worked very well in many competitive FPS games. Sound is reliable, radar isn’t.
Well, shouldn’t be any problem having radar in the game then. It’s just that the impression I got was that radar wasn’t “Skillful” and listening to sound was. It didn’t help when they banned comms hack for Operative too.
Thanks for both the replies anyway, it helped bring some insight and clarification to me <: It certainly made some of the ability bans sensible at least. I’m against Gatling turret ban and comms hack ban personally. Does anyone with some experience in Brink really have any trouble taking out any turret right now? A well placed grenade can disable even a gatling turret I recall. I can only assume that the reason for the ban was the damage potential but… High damage =/= OP. Turrets are easy to avoid and take out and maps provide many different routes.
Comms hacks… Well, it certainly would make Operative a bit more useful, but they banned it, why? It takes a couple of seconds before you get comms hacked and people that respawn AFTER the comms hack does not appear on the radar. Most of the time, it probably is your own fault if you get comms hacked anyway. And you get some BIG RED LETTERS FLASHING saying that you’ve been hacked, so you can easily tell your team that the enemy knows yer darn positions.
The other Operative ability bans I’m a bit more unsure about. Cortex bomb I think should not be banned either, as they can be removed, but I am assuming that the reason for the ban is due to the fact that it can be more or less used as a mine and defence already has enough advantage as it is.
Cortex bomb is easily avoidable if you actually pay attention to your sounds and not just rush in, so good players should be able to easily avoid getting killed by it, especially with the tiny explosion radius. But eh, I can’t say I can disagree with the ban, it’s irritating for most when you die from the person you just killed. EMP is understandable too, I’m sure it would be allowed if it didn’t slow down HE charges.
Homing Beacon… It basically gives your whole team HAXXX, seeing an enemy trough walls for a few seconds. I am assuming the reasoning behind this one was because the general view that seeing enemies trough walls is frowned upon and that it potentially give Defenders an even bigger advantage. Can’t say I can fully disagree with the ban, but I don’t think it would hurt all that much to allow it really, as you need to iron sight the enemy for a moment and the WALL HAX only lasts a brief moment anyway. Furthermore, the one getting pointed at does get a warning from the announces that lets the player know that he/she has been marked.
Also, thanks for the info on Silent running! I would’ve checked it myself, but I have a cheap 2.1 sound system basically at the moment.
Not to mention, isn’t the whole business concept behind this to get the Brink players to watch it so You can generate advertising revenue? This amputated version of Brink I don’t really see many players interest themselves in.
What makes better TV? “wow, that guy really shows super aim by dominating because we took everything else out” or “wow that team really showed a creative use of abilities to win”? The other thing that pulls viewers in is to gleam tips from the pros, but if they’re playing a different game, that’s not going to be a factor.
Maybe it is just because I’m a businessman first and a gamer second, but from a commercial POV, stuff like this is just absurd. You cater to the customers, not the employees. You cater to the viewers, not the athletes.
Unfortunately eSports isn’t there yet, far more people play than watch, and most who watch play as well, so competition is generally geared towards the athlete in this case.
Whether it should be is a good question; for now it probably should, because without the athletes there’s nothing to watch.
However LANs, for example, will often force certain things that offline competition wouldn’t purely to appease the sponsers / non-gaming spectators. For example, at QuakeCon one year the RTCW tournament used a high detail config rather than the ultra-tweaked configs players were used to just so the game looked good on their big screens. And whereas most comp players will hide the gun model via config tweaks most LANs will force the gun model to be shown because it looks ridiculous on screen or whatever live streaming service they may be using when bullets appear to be coming out of thin air in the middle of the screen.
So there are some concessions to the spectator, but for now eSports exists mostly for the player. Hopefully that will change one day.
[QUOTE=Smokeskin;327895]I can see I won’t be enjoying watching comp games with all these ability bans. i would much rather have seen the comp scene develop tactics around these abilities and their counters, it would be much more interesting than Brink dumbed down to just another shooter.
The only stuff that makes sense is banning some overly defensive abilities like extra landmine tbh.[/QUOTE]
As for self-resurrection…I think Splash Damage actually nailed the whole self-revive/downed fire/cortex bomb thing. It is briliant, because they are never cheap…being beat by those abilities can always be avoided by checking the players animation and class icon…the more experienced player will be better at handling those things.
the game was balanced before, dont think ill take part in these competitions they have crappy rules, if the whole team went operative it would take 20 seconds to hack at most so “de-hack” is simi necessity. i just dont like these rules thats all, no fun
