ESL released BRINK Championship Rules! (CF)

(Suckenstein) #21

Going Cov Op is kinda like being the kid that always claimed he was a ninja but never really displayed any real traits of actually being a ninja.

(DonkeyDong) #22

roflolz…

(DonkeyDong) #23

[QUOTE=chas;322978]I hope everyone whining about the removal of operative abilities realizes that the op SHOULD be a situational class pick, especially in 5on5.

If he was a mandatory class you would only have redundancy with 1 class, thus you will either end up with waaaaaaaaay too few medics and/or with too few objective classes. The defending team could focus on gibbing the objective class 100% of the time and never actually defend properly. It’d be unbelievably stupid.[/QUOTE]

you’re talking to kids… they don’t know any better

(Amp) #24

[QUOTE=BMXer;322614]Did you happen to read the list of abilities that are restricted? Tell me how any of that lame spam stuff has any place in competition. You can’t…
I don’t necessarily agree with the hacking rules but I just don’t see how anyone is going to miss any of those abilities in competition.

Rather that just jumping on the “no restrictions” bandwagon, take a second to think about how silly most of those abilities actually are in comp. Enjoy them while pubbing but come on, downed fire in comp? cortex bomb? plz[/QUOTE]

I come from a mindset that believes something should not be banned from a competitive game unless it is absolutely warranted and the game becomes a complete wreck if it is allowed.

I don’t find those abilities “silly in comp” at all.

Hell, I think even mattc0m is going a little far when he says the Intuition perk breaks the game. I agree that Adrenaline does need looking at, but other than that everything should be fair game unless, like stated, it does absolutely make the game a wreck to play.

In summary: Burden of proof is on you (mostly the ESL, but you seem to agree with it) to give good reason why they should be banned. “It’s silly in comp,” is not a good reason, at all.

(DonkeyDong) #25

[QUOTE=Amp;323372]I don’t find those abilities “silly in comp” at all.

Burden of proof is on you to give good reason why they should be banned. “It’s silly in comp,” is not a good reason, at all.[/QUOTE]

If you need reasons,… you should be playing WoW where abilities is the skill and not aiming. which is where we are at… duhhhhhhhhhhh

(Kendle) #26

Who says aiming is the skill in Brink? Perhaps you should be playing Quake Live?

For me there’s a simple principle at stake here :-

if stopwatch mode is not possible with a certin feature, that feature should be removed, otherwise it should stay

If this means the game doesn’t require as much skill as you think it should, go play something else.

If this means the game isn’t as much fun as you’d like, go play something else.

If this means it isn’t the game you want it to be, go play something else.

(chas) #27

if stopwatch mode is not possible with a certin feature, that feature should be removed, otherwise it should stay

But… it’s common knowledge that offense is absolutely silly right now and most maps end with a fullhold at the first objective. Thus stopwatch mode is “not possible”.

(Lemming) #28

THIS. If you’re going to go down the route of banning anything that’s “silly in competitive play” let’s ditch all the weapons but the SMGs too, as well as heavy body type. Let’s not actually SEE if things work or not in competitive play either, let’s just ban anything we don’t like in principle, because that’s the way it’s going at the moment.

There hasn’t been enough proper competitive play to see what abilities should be locked out and which shouldn’t, a couple of practice clan wars are no substitute for one good competition worth of play with demos to see what’s what.

(riptide) #29

Are these rules separate from the NationalESL rules or do they use the same rules?

(Decayed) #30

[QUOTE=BMXer;322647]Wait wait, they took out the built in wallhacks? damn, that sucks for competitive play.

Seriously though, just because a class becomes “less useful” has nothing to do with what abilities work in competition. Like i said half a dozen times in IRC and all over this forum… look at the op in ET and ETQW competition plz, k thx.[/QUOTE]

Just because things weren’t in previous comp games doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong in future comp games. Otherwise there should probably be no innovation at all, and we should just keep playing the same versions of all the top comp games with better graphics right?

Not every game is going to fit the mold. While I do agree certain things are not that great for competition, it’s not going to break it. The bottom line is the most skilled team should win. Are these abilities bridging the gap so much that you’re gonna have random people consistently beating the best teams? Maybe on a case by case one off basis. But consistently over time? I doubt it.

Skills like combat intuition… a better player is still gonna have the same advantage, and they will be able to move the crosshair quicker, in fact it’d probably be more beneficial for a more skilled player… Maybe we should not show any type of directional indicator when we get hit too. Oh wait, this has been accepted for a while, let’s keep it.

Things evolve.

Even last stand. I understand it’s not considered “pro” because it’s from cod. But there’s a big difference in Brink. It offers a whole lot of different strategy where you need to actually worry about who’s dead. In COD, you actually circumvent death. If you’re so worried about it, just make sure they’re dead. Again, still something that everyone can take.

What’s next? No rezzing? Because once someone is down, they’re down? More and more it feels like people just want it to be a simple shooter like CS where all you do is kill people with a small objective tied to the round. Brink is a lot more and I don’t understand why people want to play Brink, yet want to force it to become a game that they are used to.

Let’s make everyone level 1 with no attachments, no skills, and medium type only. Cause that’s what we’re used to.

(BMXer) #31

There is plenty of stuff in Brink that innovates FPS games without keeping all the spammy/pub abilities. Buffs, smart, etc.
There is a darn good reason why stuff like radar was removed from every single competitive fps game ever. I personally don’t think we need to re-test that stuff in Brink just to re-prove it has no place in comp.

(Decayed) #32

Agree about radar. Just using spider sense as an example. Anyway, just feel like ESL ruleset is highly restrictive, but if that’s what people want, then I guess that’s what will be.

You are not allowed to use or do the following actions.

Restricted abilities: Universal
Combat Intuition
Sense of Perspective
Downed Fire
Medic
Self Resurrection
Adrenaline Boost
Soldier
Satchel Charges
Engineer
Nerves of Steel
Extra Landmine
Gattling Turret
Operative
Homing Beacon
Comms Hack
Cortex Bomb
EMP Grenades
Turret Limit
Every team is allowed to place the maximum number of 1 turret.
Hacking: Dehacking and hackbox removing
It is not allowed to lower the hack percentage or remove the hackbox as defending team.

It is not allowed to leave the area when hacking a target. You have to stay in the following areas:

Reactor: Inside the building where the objective is.
Terminal: Only inside the glasroom.
Resort: Inside the building where the objective is.
Shipyard: You have to stay outside and on the platform. Entering the inside is forbidden.

http://www.esl.eu/eu/brink/5on5/champ_qual/rules/

(Kendle) #33

I agree, but the solution has nothing to do with the “skill” involved in “aiming”, which a lot of people seem to be hung up on.

The big issues are map design and defense respawn times. Defenders respawn too quickly, and many maps are badly designed, especially the escort maps. Maps with hack objectives are also biased to defense because they can remove the hack tool much faster than attack can place it.

This is a good post in the discussion on the subject in the ESL forums :-

http://www.esl.eu/eu/brink/forum/2623/24422/925937/?singleposting=7252192&postcount=89

This guy is at least thinking about it clearly and without prejudice based on previous games.

As someone else said above, if something is proven to not work in competition remove it, but don’t remove it just because you don’t like it, are too lazy to counter it, or think it has “no right” (whatever that means) to be in competition.

(.Chris.) #34

Yeah I’m hoping some of these bans are temporary until a mod can mod abilities to make them less overpowered so they can remain in some shape or form rather than be banned outright.

As Kendle said the biggest issue is map design which can’t be changed.

(Apples) #35

The more you get competition different from the vanilla game, the less the comp will live, easy as that… Agree with Chris there, why not try to balance instead of removing?

The funny thing is that usually, the players who cry the more about balance in videogames are the ones not balancing anything at all when it come to comp as they remove everything :smiley:

Meh, I’ll buy the game once its fixed, and hope that the comp crowd will still be consistant.

Peace

(Rave) #36

[QUOTE=Apples;324165]The more you get competition different from the vanilla game, the less the comp will live, easy as that…
Peace[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I couldn’t believe those ESL rules when I read them. They are a pain the ass to enforce and like Apples says, the more you get competition different from the vanilla game, the less the comp will live.

Unless a clearcut vanilla competition ruleset is integrated into the game, all leagues are going to come up with their own rules and split the community. And SDs efforts to make this game competitive will be wasted.

Everyone will disagree about the ruleset but given how opposed many are to some of the abilities, it would probably just make sense to get rid of them all in competition mode (except, of course, for the standard abilities).

And it would be nice if SD took notice and could integrate this into the competition mode.

As for the bias towards defence, I’m convinced the balance can be sorted with respawn timings only.

And as I’ve said before, why not simply slow down hack reversing rather than just prevent it completely. Whatever the solution (slow down or prevent), it needs to come from SD.

(kiNetic.Rorek) #37

ESL’s server config already enforces these perk limitations. The server config comes with commands that only enable certain abilities to each class, any perk not on that list is automatically disabled and removed. Automatically, anyone with gatling turrets get reverted to medium, all banned perks are completely removed from your quick bar for the duration of the game, mines are limited to one per engineer even if you have the two perk. Only real rule in terms of perks that needs enforcing is the one turret per team no matter how many engineers you have rule, but that one is easy to mediate.

ESL did a good job of setting up their config for their own ruleset, I’m not really putting any input into whether their rules are fair or not, just saying that they’re doing a good job following through with what they want to do. Their rules are definitely something though.

(m3lior) #38

If nothing else, it’s good to see that different leagues are feeling out how the variety of rulesets affects gameplay. Just disallowing self-rez completely changes the tactics for medic gameplay. I’m glad that they’re not just hopping on the same ruleset boat as everyone else.

(Redshft) #39

Nope. Its actually the opposite. Some games are so far from being competition ready that the community needs to ban and restrict abilities. Brink is one of those games. Another one was Cod4, and it had a thriving competitive community for several years.

The funny thing is that usually, the players who cry the more about balance in videogames are the ones not balancing anything at all when it come to comp as they remove everything :smiley:

Wrong again. When communities balance vanilla games, they often modify (balance) weapons, maps or abilities in ADDITION to outright removal.

SD has not balanced this game for a competitive setting.

(Apples) #40

Erm you cant compare the amount of player @ CoD4 and the numbers in Brink, with a little playerbase its hard to get team involved, and its harder if the game is far from the original. Dont get me wrong here, I loved the changes in ETQW and felt the game was much smoother and more balanced, sadly many dont think like that and it was allways the same teams playing in ETQW, the only new teams were made when some teams exploded and their members formed new teams alltogether.

I’m not a super duper comp player myself so I dont really have a word here, and indeed if its so much unbalanced it must be changed, but some nerfing / buffing is allways better than a total removal in my book.

Peace