Does Fletcher Really Need to be Changed?

[Vaasref]

I don’t see why Fletcher should be better at killing heavy mercs.

And even if Fletcher is a too good counter to light mercs but he is not bad vs heavy ones either.

Fletcher is a pain in every CQB situation, and 2 of 3 heavy merc are CQB focused.

[bizarreRectangle]

Just don’t bombrush him or follow him around corners. Most light classes do this and get pwned by fletcher. Be smart.

[AnimeDude]

Someone post the flowchart

[ForgottenCrowd]

I bought Fletcher in about February to see if he was really OP. I went something like 20-4 my first public match. I’m not an amazing player, but I’d probably say I’m average-good. I usually get about a 4.0 k/d by spamming stickies and running as soon as I get shot. I really hate doing it, but it’s really easy. The first thing I thought after I threw my first sticky was “Wow! That’s a fast replenish time!”. I’ve gotta say, I rarely ever spawn without at least one sticky. I often respawn with two, and sometimes with all three. I’ve used Fragger, Kira, Arty, and Stoker and I usually respawn with a cooldown, unlike with Fletcher because his cooldown is so fast. Pretty OP in pubs. I really don’t know about ranked since I don’t really play it so much.

This is an opinion on PUBLIC MATCH FLETCHER. Please don’t tell me about how “he’s not OP in ranked”

[Eox]

[quote=“ForgottenCrowd;158761”]I bought Fletcher in about February to see if he was really OP. I went something like 20-4 my first public match. I’m not an amazing player, but I’d probably say I’m average-good. I usually get about a 4.0 k/d by spamming stickies and running as soon as I get shot. I really hate doing it, but it’s really easy. The first thing I thought after I threw my first sticky was “Wow! That’s a fast replenish time!”. I’ve gotta say, I rarely ever spawn without at least one sticky. I often respawn with two, and sometimes with all three. I’ve used Fragger, Kira, Arty, and Stoker and I usually respawn with a cooldown, unlike with Fletcher because his cooldown is so fast. Pretty OP in pubs. I really don’t know about ranked since I don’t really play it so much.

This is an opinion on PUBLIC MATCH FLETCHER. Please don’t tell me about how “he’s not OP in ranked”[/quote]

What level were the players you were playing against ?

[Szakalot]

I find fletcher to be more and more difficult to use as people learn how to adapt to sticky play.

So it might be easy to play fletcher on pubs. So is rhino, any good player can pick nitro and stomp through a nonminlvl10 server with 5> k/d ; hell that usually happens on minlvl10 too, if you have a medic

[Ohsnapkline]

gonna leave this here

personally I think Fletcher suffers from a very low skill ceiling with a high effectivness

[Szakalot]

low skill ceiling… really?

so any random fletcher can go comp and be as good as some of the best fletchers out there - with their mediocre movement skills, littleknowledge of trick throws and how to juke good players around corners

i wouldnt even agree that fletcher has low skill floor - nader is much easier to pick up and play

[Eox]

[quote=“Szakalot;158924”]low skill ceiling… really?

so any random fletcher can go comp and be as good as some of the best fletchers out there - with their mediocre movement skills, littleknowledge of trick throws and how to juke good players around corners

i wouldnt even agree that fletcher has low skill floor - nader is much easier to pick up and play[/quote]

This. Seriously, anyone saying this just never tried Fletcher. How does an ability that you need to aim around has a lower skill floor than the mine or the turret that you’ll just drop on the floor and forget ? It makes no sense at all.

Even Nader is easier to play, thanks to faster projectile speed and no need to detonate.

[Ohsnapkline]

[quote=“Szakalot;158924”]low skill ceiling… really?

so any random fletcher can go comp and be as good as some of the best fletchers out there - with their mediocre movement skills, littleknowledge of trick throws and how to juke good players around corners

i wouldnt even agree that fletcher has low skill floor - nader is much easier to pick up and play[/quote]
most devs try to balance there game for all skill levels. I’m not sure on SplashDamage stance on this but imo both Nader and Fletcher are pretty low skill ceiling, now if a perk like the one that lets you melee projectiles back was viable (or any mechanic lets you soft counter grenades) I’d say Fletcher was an OK merc because then there exists is a system that lets the player engage Fletcher in interesting ways.

but as it stands the rate at which Fletcher spams sticky’s is a bit wonky, in that it requires low skill to use versus power that it gives. Now like the video I linked stated if player one has ability A. which is superior but requires X amount of skill to pull off whats to stop him from using ability B. (stickies) that requires less skill but is still just as an effective strategy. Now I understand that whether his stickies require skill or not is subjective and so is my point of view but as I’ve seen low rank Fletcher’s spam stickies and be fine and not ever need to use their firearms I feel that the stickies are a bit strong and the players are not forced to use their stickies strategically or situationally

the Zerg rush syndrome: when Nerfed the low skill players gave up but the good players were still able to play effectively.

if Fletcher was changed in some way I’m sure this would be the case or better yet give players more ways to engage Fletcher

[PleasantWheat]

I honestly don’t know what’s more divisive; this or the sparks nerfs XD

[Eox]

[quote=“straightforwardOdyssey;159160”][quote=“Szakalot;158924”]low skill ceiling… really?

so any random fletcher can go comp and be as good as some of the best fletchers out there - with their mediocre movement skills, littleknowledge of trick throws and how to juke good players around corners

i wouldnt even agree that fletcher has low skill floor - nader is much easier to pick up and play[/quote]
most devs try to balance there game for all skill levels. I’m not sure on SplashDamage stance on this but imo both Nader and Fletcher are pretty low skill ceiling, now if a perk like the one that lets you melee projectiles back was viable (or any mechanic lets you soft counter grenades) I’d say Fletcher was an OK merc because then there exists is a system that lets the player engage Fletcher in interesting ways.

but as it stands the rate at which Fletcher spams sticky’s is a bit wonky, in that it requires low skill to use versus power that it gives. Now like the video I linked stated if player one has ability A. which is superior but requires X amount of skill to pull off whats to stop him from using ability B. (stickies) that requires less skill but is still just as an effective strategy. Now I understand that whether his stickies require skill or not is subjective and so is my point of view but as I’ve seen low rank Fletcher’s spam stickies and be fine and not ever need to use their firearms I feel that the stickies are a bit strong and the players are not forced to use their stickies strategically or situationally

the Zerg rush syndrome: when Nerfed the low skill players gave up but the good players were still able to play effectively.

if Fletcher was changed in some way I’m sure this would be the case or better yet give players more ways to engage Fletcher [/quote]

How Fletcher and Nader’s skill floor is lower when a lof of mercs such as Proxy or Bushwhacker have “fire and forget” abilities ? What’s the most skillful play for you ? Directly hitting someone with a projectile, or tossing a trap in a corner and waiting for someone to walk near of it ? If anything, Nader and Fletcher have an average skill floor compared to every single mercs out today.

[Szakalot]

nerfing fletcher is very tricky as he is at the edge of viability in high level play, and a too big of a nerf can remove him completely.

in the context you describe most mercs are low skill ceiling. its easy to get kills as fragger/stoker/skyhammer/aura on a station etc.

i would argue that fletcher is pretty much average in that department. and yes its true that he has a lot of spam potential, perhaps making him considerably easier on 8v8 pubs, just like nader

[RacX3r]

Agreed. I´ve played Fletcher for quite a long time and I dont think he is imbalanced. In my opinion, there is a reason why his stickies do more damage than Nader´s nades. I mean, he has just 3 of them and the effective radius of his stickies is very small. If you don´t hit your enemy right in the face the sticky does almost no damage. Nader can just spam her nades and she has the AoE perk to increase her radius.
Altogether, you need quite a lot of experience to handle Fletcher well otherwise he is just useless because you won´t hit anything with his stickies and his guns are bad. I think a nerf wouldnt be fair

[RedBeard]

[quote=“Vaasref;157742”]I don’t see why Fletcher should be better at killing heavy mercs.

And even if Fletcher is a too good counter to light mercs but he is not bad vs heavy ones either.

Fletcher is a pain in every CQB situation, and 2 of 3 heavy merc are CQB focused.[/quote]

Its where the points are.

[Ohsnapkline]

How Fletcher and Nader’s skill floor is lower when a lof of mercs such as Proxy or Bushwhacker have “fire and forget” abilities ? What’s the most skillful play for you ? Directly hitting someone with a projectile, or tossing a trap in a corner and waiting for someone to walk near of it ? If anything, Nader and Fletcher have an average skill floor compared to every single mercs out today.

Ok allow me to correct something because I’ve been labeling it wrong (what happens from lack of sleep) skill floor is how easy something is to play or initially play, skill ceiling is the full potential at which someone or something can be played at.

I don’t hate or favor any Merc just simply trying to look at there ability’s from an non-biased/objective standpoint. what I meant to say is Nader and Fletcher have a low skill floor not ceiling. I actually think these Mercs have a moderate skill ceiling in that Nader can skillfully ricochet grenades into kills and Fletcher can tactically set his sticky’s but with the current effectiveness of both these skills your not forced as much to do so. sorry for the confusion.

Yes proxy and bush W. have use and forget tools at there disposal but I find neither to be over-tuned or problematic (unless your stacking proxies but Merc stacking/limits is another thread), simply due to there being a system (both interesting and engaging) that allows players to overcome/counter these obstacles.

A good pair of headphones will allow you to hear the mechanical sounds both mines and sentry’s produce as well as a perk that lets you detect them better. Thus giving an opportunity for players to engage proxy and bush W. in interesting ways. also when playing these characters I find my self using my fire-arms and not just my Q or E ability.

• I also think the same of Rhino, his mini-gun is all give and not enough take, and Impossible to overheat with half a brain so why is overheating even there? using Rhino I feel like I have no reason to use anything else but the mini-gun I’m even considering getting Stoker so I don’t have to deal with enemy Rhinos that bunker down with a medic station.

[Ritobasu]

Rhino takes more skill than Fletcher

[Eox]

[quote=“straightforwardOdyssey;159326”]
Ok allow me to correct something because I’ve been labeling it wrong (what happens from lack of sleep) skill floor is how easy something is to play or initially play, skill ceiling is the full potential at which someone or something can be played at.

I don’t hate or favor any Merc just simply trying to look at there ability’s from an non-biased/objective standpoint. what I meant to say is Nader and Fletcher have a low skill floor not ceiling. I actually think these Mercs have a moderate skill ceiling in that Nader can skillfully ricochet grenades into kills and Fletcher can tactically set his sticky’s but with the current effectiveness of both these skills your not forced as much to do so. sorry for the confusion.

Yes proxy and bush W. have use and forget tools at there disposal but I find neither to be over-tuned or problematic (unless your stacking proxies but Merc stacking/limits is another thread), simply due to there being a system (both interesting and engaging) that allows players to overcome/counter these obstacles.

A good pair of headphones will allow you to hear the mechanical sounds both mines and sentry’s produce as well as a perk that lets you detect them better. Thus giving an opportunity for players to engage proxy and bush W. in interesting ways. also when playing these characters I find my self using my fire-arms and not just my Q or E ability.

• I also think the same of Rhino, his mini-gun is all give and not enough take, and Impossible to overheat with half a brain so why is overheating even there? using Rhino I feel like I have no reason to use anything else but the mini-gun I’m even considering getting Stoker so I don’t have to deal with enemy Rhinos that bunker down with a medic station.[/quote]

The skill ceiling is actually way higher than you might think. Try to land consistent direct hits towards a target located at 25m or more with the GL that is also strafing and shooting at you. Worse now : try with the stickies, which are lower projectiles. Aiming a projectile based weapon that does not explode on contact with the environment is harder than aiming a hitscan weapon.

Any guy can spam mindlessly, but if you play in a competitive environment you’ll never earn anything with mindless spamming : you’ll need to be accurate. Very accurate. Spam only works in those 8v8 servers full of players with a level below 15. Try to do it against decent players and you’ll earn much less frags than usual.

Rhino takes more skill than Fletcher

http://i.imgur.com/lGiX9Fr.png

[LoliGagging]

i wonder if this is gonna be one of those things where a nerf happens and then everyone is butthurt and want to fix it

[Ohsnapkline]

[quote=“Eox;159537”][quote=“straightforwardOdyssey;159326”]
Ok allow me to correct something because I’ve been labeling it wrong (what happens from lack of sleep) skill floor is how easy something is to play or initially play, skill ceiling is the full potential at which someone or something can be played at.

I don’t hate or favor any Merc just simply trying to look at there ability’s from an non-biased/objective standpoint. what I meant to say is Nader and Fletcher have a low skill floor not ceiling. I actually think these Mercs have a moderate skill ceiling in that Nader can skillfully ricochet grenades into kills and Fletcher can tactically set his sticky’s but with the current effectiveness of both these skills your not forced as much to do so. sorry for the confusion.

Yes proxy and bush W. have use and forget tools at there disposal but I find neither to be over-tuned or problematic (unless your stacking proxies but Merc stacking/limits is another thread), simply due to there being a system (both interesting and engaging) that allows players to overcome/counter these obstacles.

A good pair of headphones will allow you to hear the mechanical sounds both mines and sentry’s produce as well as a perk that lets you detect them better. Thus giving an opportunity for players to engage proxy and bush W. in interesting ways. also when playing these characters I find my self using my fire-arms and not just my Q or E ability.

• I also think the same of Rhino, his mini-gun is all give and not enough take, and Impossible to overheat with half a brain so why is overheating even there? using Rhino I feel like I have no reason to use anything else but the mini-gun I’m even considering getting Stoker so I don’t have to deal with enemy Rhinos that bunker down with a medic station.[/quote]

The skill ceiling is actually way higher than you might think. Try to land consistent direct hits towards a target located at 25m or more with the GL that is also strafing and shooting at you. Worse now : try with the stickies, which are lower projectiles. Aiming a projectile based weapon that does not explode on contact with the environment is harder than aiming a hitscan weapon.

Any guy can spam mindlessly, but if you play in a competitive environment you’ll never earn anything with mindless spamming : you’ll need to be accurate. Very accurate. Spam only works in those 8v8 servers full of players with a level below 15. Try to do it against decent players and you’ll earn much less frags than usual.

Rhino takes more skill than Fletcher

[/quote]
I counter argue with “not everything can be about the competitive scene”, I’m sure SD doesn’t just balance for the top 10% they have to make QoL changes for other players too. I understand you make your case about Fletcher being competitive I’m simply basing my argument off of weather it’s fun or just frustrating to play against.

But I’m not above looking at another persons point of view.

I think everyone would probably have a better understanding if we could watch Fletcher play in a competitive/ranked game, maybe you could post a video of you playing Fletcher in a competitive match.