Does Fletcher Really Need to be Changed?

(Szakalot) #101

[quote=“Ballto;153293”][quote=“bizarreRectangle;153198”]@Ballto You’re making calculations based off your…personal stats? I think you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you even try comp?

@Szakalot already pointed out how the nade launcher was better for assault so I won’t even bother. Props to him for dealing with your posts.[/quote]

ive actually been in comp pretty much 100% the past few days and was basing most of my arguments off pubs. My opinion on fletcher might change, not that it really matters.

i wouldnt even mention personal stats if the devs made performance stats overall public[/quote]

dont mean to bash you or anything but:

competitive mode (ranked) =/ comp

(sonsofaugust5) #102

@LifeupOmega I see what youre saying with the sticky recharge rate. I wonder what it is compared to the nader recharge so it can give me a frame of view. Nader’s nades seem to come back really fast.

If fletcher was more popular an engineer than Bushwacker, I’d think so minor nerfs needed to be in play, like removing auto pistols or maybe adding a second to the recharge as you’ve said, but he really isnt popular enough for me to think he’s unbalanced.

(bizarreRectangle) #103

Popularity =/= balance. I do get your point though. I think nader’s nades come at 7 seconds with fletcher’s stickies coming at 10.

For people saying fletcher is too much like assault, he really isn’t. Poor range, manual detonating, and poor splash damage. It’s only good around corners or when people are following you. He’s actually like other engies if you think about it. Kind of like a fast paced bushwacker.

Removing airburst and reducing damage is simply moronic.

([i]Skree-*) #104

[center]Fletcher is definitely NOT op.
Yeah sometimes you may get a lucky stick, or playing against him feel like you always die by him (which actully propably only happens a couple of times during a match and you just notice those kills because Fletcher is soooo OP) but most of the time you get only one or at best 2 kills with those three stickys and doing so takes quite allot of time and skill to succesfully pul off. You have to arc those nades to either direct hit someone or place them close to where they supposedly will be once you detonate. And since the shotguns’ longrange capabilitys have been nerved recently he can’t snipe distant targets anymore anyways.
Simply said:[list]
[]He is close range oriented and should aswell as can ONLY be used this way
[]He needs skill to succesfully and consistently kill with
[]Everyone with decent aim will most likely kill him before he even can detonate his second stiky (which he most likely is going to need to kill you)
[]And since the last patch he isn’t even able to camp bomb plants behind walls anymore since the defuse progression isn’t visible through walls without someone having clear sight of it anymore[/list]

He is a good merc don’t get me wrong but there are many counters to fletcher, hell most mercs even get acces to augments that reduce his only strong asset (unshakable) which is explosives. Appart from that he is pretty average 110hp, shotguns and the Blishlock jadajada…
To conclude my point once and for all, he definitely is good but at least in my oppinion and allot if not all of my friends’ oppinions as well, he is just a perfect example of a high skill, high reward merc and deserves a place in this game the way he is now aswell as to top score in every match if used correctly (like it should be with every merc [cough cough Thunder]).

[spoiler] Btw the one thing that ticks me off is Aura healing stations. Get yourself a halfway decent team place it around a corner in a clutch are and it’s pretty much gg for the enemy team. And even worse is the combo of a competent team this Aura and a Sparks for picking up people who die in more dangerous areas [/spoiler]

(Reddeadcap) #105

My only thought on tweaking Fletcher would be to have sticky bombs arm only after they stuck to a surface or player, removing the ability to airburst them and enforcing the idea of using them like booby-traps or to use the on unsuspecting enemies.

I could be wrong on this one as I haven’t seen many Fletchers recently but also let players distroy them midair if that was removed.

(RedBeard) #106

Leave it Alone…

(gloomyRequirement) #107

The issue with Fletcher is that if he manages to get up close he’s too powerful. His close range is absolutely unmatched by any other class. Some light classes would stand a chance by avoiding his shotgun but sticky bombs deal so much damage that even if he equips the SMG he can still pick them off easily(keep in mind that a STUCK stickybomb will instantkill light mercs and a missed one will still at least take half their hp pool away - and the latter is not difficult to do at all).

That in his own right isn’t even that much of a problem, there ought to be one best class at close range. But Fletcher is besides that also an engineer and that’s the troublesome part. He can easily outdamage and outfight slayer oriented classes. He’s not extremely unbalanced or something but I would mind seeing sticky bomb damage nerfed down by 10/20%

(Szakalot) #108

[quote=“gloomyRequirement;156638”]The issue with Fletcher is that if he manages to get up close he’s too powerful. His close range is absolutely unmatched by any other class. Some light classes would stand a chance by avoiding his shotgun but sticky bombs deal so much damage that even if he equips the SMG he can still pick them off easily(keep in mind that a STUCK stickybomb will instantkill light mercs and a missed one will still at least take half their hp pool away - and the latter is not difficult to do at all).

That in his own right isn’t even that much of a problem, there ought to be one best class at close range. But Fletcher is besides that also an engineer and that’s the troublesome part. He can easily outdamage and outfight slayer oriented classes. He’s not extremely unbalanced or something but I would mind seeing sticky bomb damage nerfed down by 10/20%[/quote]

its not as simple as that.

If you get up in fletcher’s face he cannot outDPS automatic weapons with sticky throws. He will probably throw one and damage himself and you - consequently die from your weapon before executing another throw. If he tries to shotgun you - well, a shotgun fletcher is extremely poor at longer ranges, otherwise its a blishlok smg merc with 110hp.

Fletcher is only strong if he can juke you around corners. That can be very difficult to pull off against an organized opponent

(CCP115) #109

I remember TF2 used to have a stickybomb launcher airburst problem.

They fixed it after a while.

If a sticky is airbursted, reduce blast radius. That is literally it. How to fix the problem. If a sticky touches anything solid, full blast radius is activated, or at least regained quickly over a period of time. This means players have slightly longer to react to stickies, and require a more skilled Fletcher player when in a direct 1vs1. He will still be almost as strong around corners though.

(Jostabeere) #110

Let’s be objective here. I know, many people love Fletcher, and don’t want im to be nerfed. I like Fletcher myself very much, and enjoy playing him.
But. But with the current change to the shooting while mid-air mechanics he kinda became the king or mid-air fights. He is not OP in any way. Fletcher is one of those who are easy to play, but hard to master mercs. But his stickies are quite strong. The only thing I would not mind to see is a slight cooldown increase or a mechanic that stickies don’t cool down if you have some out.

(Dieu-Sama) #111

This poll lacks one possible answer : change the loadouts

It’s BL32, BL33 and A31 that make him somewhat “OP”, not the stickies per se

(solace_) #112

@Faraleth @Amerika Maybe time to close this post. It has been open quite a while. no resolution or agreement at all basically. Just turned into a huge circular argument.

I don’t see any point in keeping it open.

(Amerika) #113

[quote=“succinctDeer;157411”]@Faraleth @Amerika Maybe time to close this post. It has been open quite a while. no resolution or agreement at all basically. Just turned into a huge circular argument.

I don’t see any point in keeping it open.[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but we try to have a very light hand on the forum. Topics can stay lively and even passionate as long as certain flammatory lines are not crossed. Resolutions and agreements are not required and there is no time frame outside of necro’ing old topics that have out of date information. Threads will die out naturally if people have said all they want to say. I’m not going to touch a thread unless it breaks rules or the OP asks me to close.

(Szakalot) #114

@Amerika you would close ANY thread just cause OP asked? pretty silly imo, thread doesn’t ‘belong’ to the OP, they just happened to make the first post

(Amerika) #115

Typically yes. This is due to notifications. It’s binary…they are either all off or on for your own topics (unless I missed an option somewhere). However, others are allowed to create their own thread to continue the discussion if they want. But I don’t think any heavy discussion but not flammatory threads have ever had a close request.

(solace_) #116

[quote=“Amerika;157450”][quote=“succinctDeer;157411”]@Faraleth @Amerika Maybe time to close this post. It has been open quite a while. no resolution or agreement at all basically. Just turned into a huge circular argument.

I don’t see any point in keeping it open.[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but we try to have a very light hand on the forum. Topics can stay lively and even passionate as long as certain flammatory lines are not crossed. Resolutions and agreements are not required and there is no time frame outside of necro’ing old topics that have out of date information. Threads will die out naturally if people have said all they want to say. I’m not going to touch a thread unless it breaks rules or the OP asks me to close.[/quote]

I just don’t think that this post is going anywhere or benefiting anyone. like I said, circular arguments. I understand that you guys are very respectful and don’t interfere too much unless people are breaking rules, however, I think that this is one of those times that there isn’t really much point in keeping it open.

I guess just leave it open for now, probably will die out as soon as the next update comes out.

(Amerika) #117

[quote=“succinctDeer;157655”][quote=“Amerika;157450”][quote=“succinctDeer;157411”]@Faraleth @Amerika Maybe time to close this post. It has been open quite a while. no resolution or agreement at all basically. Just turned into a huge circular argument.

I don’t see any point in keeping it open.[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but we try to have a very light hand on the forum. Topics can stay lively and even passionate as long as certain flammatory lines are not crossed. Resolutions and agreements are not required and there is no time frame outside of necro’ing old topics that have out of date information. Threads will die out naturally if people have said all they want to say. I’m not going to touch a thread unless it breaks rules or the OP asks me to close.[/quote]

I just don’t think that this post is going anywhere or benefiting anyone. like I said, circular arguments. I understand that you guys are very respectful and don’t interfere too much unless people are breaking rules, however, I think that this is one of those times that there isn’t really much point in keeping it open.

I guess just leave it open for now, probably will die out as soon as the next update comes out.
[/quote]

Oh, I totally understand what you’re saying. I just don’t consider myself to be a person who should be dictating whether a thread here is of value when it’s not something like spam or just non-stop abusiveness towards each other or simple rant threads. If people want to talk circles around each other then I have no mod-related issues with that. Who knows, people might come to an understanding.

(solace_) #118

[quote=“Amerika;157678”][quote=“succinctDeer;157655”][quote=“Amerika;157450”][quote=“succinctDeer;157411”]@Faraleth @Amerika Maybe time to close this post. It has been open quite a while. no resolution or agreement at all basically. Just turned into a huge circular argument.

I don’t see any point in keeping it open.[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but we try to have a very light hand on the forum. Topics can stay lively and even passionate as long as certain flammatory lines are not crossed. Resolutions and agreements are not required and there is no time frame outside of necro’ing old topics that have out of date information. Threads will die out naturally if people have said all they want to say. I’m not going to touch a thread unless it breaks rules or the OP asks me to close.[/quote]

I just don’t think that this post is going anywhere or benefiting anyone. like I said, circular arguments. I understand that you guys are very respectful and don’t interfere too much unless people are breaking rules, however, I think that this is one of those times that there isn’t really much point in keeping it open.

I guess just leave it open for now, probably will die out as soon as the next update comes out.
[/quote]

Oh, I totally understand what you’re saying. I just don’t consider myself to be a person who should be dictating whether a thread here is of value when it’s not something like spam or just non-stop abusiveness towards each other or simple rant threads. If people want to talk circles around each other then I have no mod-related issues with that. Who knows, people might come to an understanding.[/quote]

very true.

(Chubbster) #119

Maybe just nerf the damage of stickies but not even by that much. It’s weird with him. To me, he’s hard to use but also kinda easy. If I spam stickies, I win battles I shouldn’t be winning.

(Naonna) #120

Fighting Fletcher only is TRULY frustrating to me if I’m playing a medic who isn’t Sawbonez or any merc with less than 100 HP. They have basically no way to combat Fletcher - possibly with the exclusion of Kira due to her primary weapon selection. - Given the range of Fletcher’s stickies via a long-jump throw, a merc such as aura or proxy has basically no chance to combat the splash damage with the rare exclusion of managing to flank said Fletcher.

Fletcher is less useful against heavier mercs, but the ability to directly counter low-hp mercs with little effort makes him frustrating to play against. - It’s very difficult to make Fletcher better at killing heavy mercs and worse at killing squishy ones.

preps for hate comments from people main Fletcher