Does Fletcher Really Need to be Changed?

(Szakalot) #81

play against good players as fletcher and tell me that nader isnt a lot better. yes fletcher is great on pubs but ina 5v5 he suffers a lot, not to mention the frienddly fire.

its really simple: fletcher has many weaknesses and very little push potential, unlike nader/fragger who can open up a choke, fletcher has to throw sticky-detonate-throw sticky-detonate; this is very slow, at least at high levels of play. ive been plying fletcher since 2014 and i honestly thought he was op until i scrimmed with some people in5v5 whee id get shot at from afar while im trying to setup a sticky throw.

blislok best gun at mid long range? really, where you got that from, from its 2nd worst DPS in smgs?

(Ballto) #82

[quote=“Szakalot;152603”]play against good players as fletcher and tell me that nader isnt a lot better. yes fletcher is great on pubs but ina 5v5 he suffers a lot, not to mention the frienddly fire.

its really simple: fletcher has many weaknesses and very little push potential, unlike nader/fragger who can open up a choke, fletcher has to throw sticky-detonate-throw sticky-detonate; this is very slow, at least at high levels of play. ive been plying fletcher since 2014 and i honestly thought he was op until i scrimmed with some people in5v5 whee id get shot at from afar while im trying to setup a sticky throw.

blislok best gun at mid long range? really, where you got that from, from its 2nd worst DPS in smgs?[/quote]

DPS is not the only factorin what makes a gun good, by that thought process the REVIVR was even terrible pre nerf because most guns could out DPS it because of its charge mechanic.

There is accuracy, damage over range, recoil, bloom per shot, hipfire COF, bullet capacity, and reload speed to take into account.

Claiming the bishlok is not a good midrange gun because it has low DPS implies that the Minigun is a better mid to long range weapon because it has the highest DPS in the game, which is obviously false.

The bishlok has the best damage over range of any SMG, and even several other weapons of different class (i think it has a better damage over range than Thunders MG but i cant find the stats for thunders MG over range for some reason)

In close quarters its dps is kind of “Meh”, but at medium range since it has such low dropoff it will out DPS higher ROF weapons because of more damage per shot. Even in close quarters, the DPS loss is not very high, even against the KEK 10 it loses only 8 damage per second.

The bishlok has very, very good hipfire. About as good as most SMGs, and i think a bloom rate about as close to most other SMGs, and better than MGs and i think ARs. Then you take into account Recoil, ADS a bishlok and then a Fraggers MG (i honestly forget its name and im too lazy too look it up) and tell me which one is more controllable. Its the bishlok, which doesnt jerk as much and has much lower horizontal recoil and vertical recoil.

Compared to the Timik (which i still think is one of the better ARs because reload speed when you animation cancel) its also much more controllable at mid range, beaten out only by the M4, which is im not mistaken has the best recoil in game of any automatic gun.

Reload speed is extremely fast compared to most other mid range guns. clocking in at 1.8 compared to

M4: 2.1
K121: 3.5
BR16:2
Stark AR: 2.1
TIMIK:2.1
Diress AR:2.2

It only has five shots less than any other automatic mid range gun save the obvious K121

Statistically, the Bishlok is close to an assault rifle.

Even in DPS, the M4 has 124 DPS, and the bishlok as 120. Against almost every class this is completely unnoticeable.

A nader will always have to rely on her gun more. sure, she can mortar the nades super far, but in duels or guarding objectives a fletcher will always out preform her because accuracy, lower delay to detonate, and the ability to plant/disarm/rep twice as fast as nader

(sgtCrookyGrin) #83

in order to calculate DPS (or the more accurate term TTK) there are certain variables that we have to consider and set so that we can understand how effective each gun really is. The variables we have to consider are ROF, damage, and damage drop off and end for a basic understanding of how the weapons work, anything else like bloom and etc are when we want to get advanced and for now we have no way to calculate all that information efficiently. And a really big issue in this game is that mercs have different HP values thus increasing the workload to understand how “flexible” the gun is against every merc since you never know what merc each person has. We also can only compare this weapon to the SMGs because of how similar it is, it may have all that damage and look more like an assault rifle but it’s still an SMG with similar traits like hipfire, recoil, etc, and besides, SMG mercs can’t use assault rifles.

The biggest problem though for actually calculating any information (at least the basic version) is that we don’t have a clear understanding of what the damage drop off does exactly, everyone knows what it does but we don’t know enough to understand how much damage it actually changes to affect the weapons. This is why Symthic is awesome -_-, anyways, the main idea is that we won’t understand until SD gives us an actual graph of data that shows how the weapons work out over ranges and etc. They can follow how Symthic does their work and create those graphs to show how much the damage gets nerfed and all that, but for now we will never truly know. Well, unless people wanna colab and help create this graph for the community I’m all in for trying to get the data as well, because knowledge is power.

(Triptome) #84

I agree with nerfing the properties of fletch’s stickies to some degree. As his weakness is in mid to long range combat slightly increasing the throw distance to cover his deficit in mid range combat would compromise the necessary nerf needed on the damage or replenishment time of the stickies. One of the main points in fletches bio is he can use his grenades to set traps, although this is not really utilised in public games. Taking away mid air detonations would encourage more tactical use and placement. IMO obviously.

(Ballto) #85

[quote=“sgtCrookyGrin;152642”]in order to calculate DPS (or the more accurate term TTK) there are certain variables that we have to consider and set so that we can understand how effective each gun really is. The variables we have to consider are ROF, damage, and damage drop off and end for a basic understanding of how the weapons work, anything else like bloom and etc are when we want to get advanced and for now we have no way to calculate all that information efficiently. And a really big issue in this game is that mercs have different HP values thus increasing the workload to understand how “flexible” the gun is against every merc since you never know what merc each person has. We also can only compare this weapon to the SMGs because of how similar it is, it may have all that damage and look more like an assault rifle but it’s still an SMG with similar traits like hipfire, recoil, etc, and besides, SMG mercs can’t use assault rifles.

The biggest problem though for actually calculating any information (at least the basic version) is that we don’t have a clear understanding of what the damage drop off does exactly, everyone knows what it does but we don’t know enough to understand how much damage it actually changes to affect the weapons. This is why Symthic is awesome -_-, anyways, the main idea is that we won’t understand until SD gives us an actual graph of data that shows how the weapons work out over ranges and etc. They can follow how Symthic does their work and create those graphs to show how much the damage gets nerfed and all that, but for now we will never truly know. Well, unless people wanna colab and help create this graph for the community I’m all in for trying to get the data as well, because knowledge is power.[/quote]

if there is an effective way to actually measure distance in this game im more than willing to poke at you at various ranges with different guns to figure out the damage over range differences between weapons if we want to be really basic and pain in the ass about how we figure it out

The reason i didnt bring up TTK (which i seriously considered) is because all the mercs have different health values. The Bishloks bodyshot TTK at max damage for example against a Skyhammer at full HP is a full one second, but against an aura its 33% faster because health differences and i was too lazy to type more on the topic than i did.

When we want to talk in theory what weapons are better, yeah we only really have to consider ROF, damage, and damage dropoff, but if you want to say that in practice one gun is better than another at any given task then you need to bring in the more nitpicky crap like recoil, reload, bloom, etc. because on paper looking at only damage, ROF, and dropoff the minigun is one of the best long range weapons in the game, which it clearly isnt when you look at the more subtle stats

(sgtCrookyGrin) #86

yea, the question now is do we as the community do all this pain in the ass work to figure all the statistics for these weapons, or wait for SD to release something remotely similar to Symthic -_-

(Szakalot) #87

[quote=“Ballto;152618”][quote=“Szakalot;152603”]play against good players as fletcher and tell me that nader isnt a lot better. yes fletcher is great on pubs but ina 5v5 he suffers a lot, not to mention the frienddly fire.

its really simple: fletcher has many weaknesses and very little push potential, unlike nader/fragger who can open up a choke, fletcher has to throw sticky-detonate-throw sticky-detonate; this is very slow, at least at high levels of play. ive been plying fletcher since 2014 and i honestly thought he was op until i scrimmed with some people in5v5 whee id get shot at from afar while im trying to setup a sticky throw.

blislok best gun at mid long range? really, where you got that from, from its 2nd worst DPS in smgs?[/quote]

DPS is not the only factorin what makes a gun good, by that thought process the REVIVR was even terrible pre nerf because most guns could out DPS it because of its charge mechanic.[/quote]

alright, didn’t expect you to compare a unique charge-up weapon with 130hp headshot frontloaded damage to an smg, you got me there.

There is accuracy, damage over range, recoil, bloom per shot, hipfire COF, bullet capacity, and reload speed to take into account.

Claiming the bishlok is not a good midrange gun because it has low DPS implies that the Minigun is a better mid to long range weapon because it has the highest DPS in the game, which is obviously false.

got me there too, didnt expect you to compare an smg to the unique rhino’s weapon - minigun.

The bishlok has the best damage over range of any SMG, and even several other weapons of different class (i think it has a better damage over range than Thunders MG but i cant find the stats for thunders MG over range for some reason)

yes, it has a falloff difference of 1m (?) i think compared to other smgs. I’m not sure if falloff is linear, so its hard to say if high damage/bullet weapons suffer from fall off less, but i guess they do (a bit less)

In close quarters its dps is kind of “Meh”, but at medium range since it has such low dropoff it will out DPS higher ROF weapons because of more damage per shot. Even in close quarters, the DPS loss is not very high, even against the KEK 10 it loses only 8 damage per second.

The bishlok has very, very good hipfire. About as good as most SMGs, and i think a bloom rate about as close to most other SMGs, and better than MGs and i think ARs.

if by ‘about as good’ you mean ‘worse than those other, better guns’ then yeah. Blishlok got some decent buffs recently, so its not as obviously inferior as it used to be, but ill take kek accuracy over blish, thank you very much

Then you take into account Recoil, ADS a bishlok and then a Fraggers MG (i honestly forget its name and im too lazy too look it up) and tell me which one is more controllable. Its the bishlok, which doesnt jerk as much and has much lower horizontal recoil and vertical recoil.

alright, Blish has some nice ADS, so i suppose one can come up with some scenarios where Blish is preferable to kek/crotzni; though i’d consider those outliers compared to general utility, where a more accurate, higher DPS SMG is preferable.

Show me a top-level team where someone picks blishlok over crotzni/kek.

Compared to the Timik (which i still think is one of the better ARs because reload speed when you animation cancel) its also much more controllable at mid range, beaten out only by the M4, which is im not mistaken has the best recoil in game of any automatic gun.

faster reload is generally nice, but it becomes less relevant in 5v5. faster reloading is great in 8v8 pubs where you constantly have enemies in front of you. in a 5v5, rather than reload a gun with your dead fingers, its generally preferable to have a better gun that kills that other guy first.

Reload speed is extremely fast compared to most other mid range guns. clocking in at 1.8 compared to

M4: 2.1
K121: 3.5
BR16:2
Stark AR: 2.1
TIMIK:2.1
Diress AR:2.2

do you mind comparing blishlok reload speed to OTHER SMGs? rather than all those weapons that have very different playstyles

Statistically, the Bishlok is close to an assault rifle.

except crap accuracy

A nader will always have to rely on her gun more.

so? compare mercs 1-to-1, don’t compare individual abilities. Rhino is generally poor, but if you gave minigun to proxy, she would be the best merc in the game.

Yes, nader uses guns more than Fletcher who uses stickies more. So?

You can even turn this argument around, fletcher uses stickies more cause he doesn’t have time to shoot people inbetween his super slow sticky throws.

sure, she can mortar the nades super far, but in duels or guarding objectives a fletcher will always out preform her because accuracy, lower delay to detonate, and the ability to plant/disarm/rep twice as fast as nader

Yes, fletcher is strong in close quarters. So is nader with direct 90hp damage hits, which are a lot faster than a sticky-stuck-detonate fletcher combo. Fletcher is great when he has support and can focus on spamming one choke, but suffers greatly from attacks from multiple angles, multiple enemies bumrushing him at once, and other weaknesses.

Nader with her grenade launcher has an immensely better utility potential, and it only gets stronger with high-skill, where people can prefire nades to lock people down in spawns, push off good positions, destroy secondary objectives, prevent defuse from safety, destroy hp stations, etc. etc. etc… Nade launcher is sooo much better in almost all cases, and there are very few scenarios where a sticky is more useful outright; which is why Nader is an assault, and Fletcher is an engy.

OH and engies repair/plant/disarm three times as fast as non-engy mercs.

(Ballto) #88

[quote=“Szakalot;152740”]snip
[/quote]

As for three times as fast i think i was looking at an outdated wiki different than the dirtybomb.wikia.com link that said non engies planted in 6 seconds compared to engineers three

All SMGs except the KEK 10 according to dirtybomb.wikia have a 1.7 reload speed, the kek getting 4.5 (that sounds wrong so if its wrong im sorry)

i know for a fact that a lot of higher ability fletcher use the bish, such as N8o from what ive seen of him.

I used the minigun and REVIVR as examples because even though they’re class specific abilities theyre still guns. I mean if you took Fraggers MG and made it his E ability and as a result class lock it it wouldnt make a difference since he is the only one to get it anyway.

The way you worded it was DPS is the be all end all statistic which it’s not.

The Bishlok is better at range after damage falloff even if the KEK is exactly the same in distance stats, lets say they both lost 5 damage at max distance, the bish still does 13 damage per bullet and the KEK does 6

When talking about timiks reload that was just an aside offhanded comment on the timik.

In any situation it is highly unlikely any player will have 100% accuracy, so in that “Kill the other guy” situation youre not at much of a disadvantage TTK wise. If you were both standing still, and both hit 100%, the bishlok would lose if youre both at equal HP, but with one headshot and the fact youre both probably missing at least a little the 8 DPS is not as noticeable.

I only said “about as good hipfire” as im not actually sure on the statistics, however i think it actually may be the same across all SMGs. even if its not its hardly noticeable at least in my experience as its still really tight

I was comparing it to medium range weaponry, as it is a medium range weapon, just like i would compare MPs to close quarter SMGs (like the Hochfir) as they were (and somewhat still are) slightly different variations of them. I mean sure the REVIVR wasnt a sniper rifle it was a class ability but it worked like a sniper rifle played similarly to a sniper rifle so you compare it to snipers and sniper rifles.

it actually has a tighter moving (and jumping) hipfire COF than the M4 and all guns (to my knowledge) are pinpoint ADS unless you jump

Im not following why youre mentioning rhino is generally poor but a minigun on proxy would be OP (it would obviously). Im comparing fletcher to nader because they are very similar in all stats and in their class ability.

Both have reasonably quick detonating small explosive bombs and various CQC weaponry and moderate HP

the one difference his naders bombs have a HUGE cone of fire. Massive. Fletchers bombs are 0.0 pinpoint and detonate faster than naders bombs assuming the nader didnt get a direct hit.

Nader can not spam her grenades as well as a fletcher can in 1v1s. If you take a Nader and a fletcher at about equal skill level and have them try and kill eachother in CQC with only their class ability, the fletcher will win every time. Claiming as i think you are that a nader is as good in cqc as a fletcher or as easy to do in cqc as a fletcher is just not right

I feel i need to correct something. I dont mean that a fletcher will kill a target with his bombs from full HP every time, BUT most decent fletchers will spam at least one bomb and deal most of his damage with that to soften a guy up, which a nader can also do but again, her detonation delay is much longer and the nades deal less damage.

a fletcher can corner peek huck bombs into rooms and throw them pretty far too, and yes, nader is an assault and fletcher is an engy, but fletcher is VERY CLOSE IN KILL POTENTIAL AND EXPLOSIVE SPAMMINESS TO NADER while also being an engineer.

So close that because he has the EXTRA UTILITY of 3x as fast objectives crap he is just better than naders and fraggers to team play because of how close to an assault merc he already is AND an engineer

EDIT: i looked it up, redeye according to http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/ arms in 5 seconds and defuses in 8 and proxy (and as a result BW and fletcher) arms in 3 defuses in 4. I was right, twice as fast

(Szakalot) #89

[quote=“Ballto;152772”]

i know for a fact that a lot of higher ability fletcher use the bish, such as N8o from what ive seen of him.[/quote]

well yeah, shotguns are terrible in 5v5 comp (with maybe some specific map/position scenarios) so comp fletchers are basically stuck with blish

I used the minigun and REVIVR as examples because even though they’re class specific abilities theyre still guns. I mean if you took Fraggers MG and made it his E ability and as a result class lock it it wouldnt make a difference since he is the only one to get it anyway.

The way you worded it was DPS is the be all end all statistic which it’s not.

In my mind it was obvious im talking about similar weapon types. comparing vastly different playstyle guns like burst rifles and blishlok is silly, comparing different SMGs by their DPS seems reasonable to me.

The Bishlok is better at range after damage falloff even if the KEK is exactly the same in distance stats, lets say they both lost 5 damage at max distance, the bish still does 13 damage per bullet and the KEK does 6

even though i dont know whether damage falloff is linear or not its definitely not going by some arbitrary -1damage/distance. If both lose 50% of DPS at max distance, the falloff hasnt changed between them

In any situation it is highly unlikely any player will have 100% accuracy, so in that “Kill the other guy” situation youre not at much of a disadvantage TTK wise. If you were both standing still, and both hit 100%, the bishlok would lose if youre both at equal HP, but with one headshot and the fact youre both probably missing at least a little the 8 DPS is not as noticeable.

sure, but thats the aim/skill part of the game. Between two equally good players the better gun is more likely to win. which is why you want the best possible gun you can get your hands on.

I only said “about as good hipfire” as im not actually sure on the statistics, however i think it actually may be the same across all SMGs. even if its not its hardly noticeable at least in my experience as its still really tight

indeed, we dont have good stats on weapon accuracy, so we are all going off our feel: my feel is that blish gets very random after 10+ bullets, pretty much forcing you to ADS if you want to keep engaging at anything but close distance.

I was comparing it to medium range weaponry, as it is a medium range weapon, just like i would compare MPs to close quarter SMGs (like the Hochfir) as they were (and somewhat still are) slightly different variations of them. I mean sure the REVIVR wasnt a sniper rifle it was a class ability but it worked like a sniper rifle played similarly to a sniper rifle so you compare it to snipers and sniper rifles.

it actually has a tighter moving (and jumping) hipfire COF than the M4 and all guns (to my knowledge) are pinpoint ADS unless you jump

ehm, isnt it more useful to compare weapons from the same group? your assesment of blish as medium-range is arbitrary, the fact that no single merc can have either SMG or Assault rifle - isn’t. Compare blish to other smgs, comparing it to assault rifles is much trickier, seeing as different types of mercs can use them.

Im not following why youre mentioning rhino is generally poor but a minigun on proxy would be OP (it would obviously). Im comparing fletcher to nader because they are very similar in all stats and in their class ability.

in my mind you were arguing that fletcher stickies are better because nader has to use her gun more to get kills. which is a separation of an ability (launcher, bombs) and mercs themselves (nader, fletcher).

Both have reasonably quick detonating small explosive bombs and various CQC weaponry and moderate HP

okay fine here are some main differences:

  • grenade launcher is fire and forget
  • grenade launcher has virtually unlimited distance
  • grenade launcher can bounce nades to spam indirect positions
  • sticky bombs require manual detonation
  • sticky bombs have limited range, and their effectiveness drops drastically with increased range
  • sticky bombs can only spam indirect positions in the vertical axis

the one difference his naders bombs have a HUGE cone of fire. Massive. Fletchers bombs are 0.0 pinpoint and detonate faster than naders bombs assuming the nader didnt get a direct hit.

huge cone of fire, really? im pretty surprised to hear that, you have some source/video that shows that cone? a few months ago i was fooling around with some mates who were checking out nader pre-fire positions: those positions worked every single time, provided that they were aiming right.
Fletcher bombs are accurate indeed (i guess it would be okay if they were a bit inaccurate when mid-air), but still affected by your forward/reverse motion

Nader can not spam her grenades as well as a fletcher can in 1v1s. If you take a Nader and a fletcher at about equal skill level and have them try and kill eachother in CQC with only their class ability, the fletcher will win every time. Claiming as i think you are that a nader is as good in cqc as a fletcher or as easy to do in cqc as a fletcher is just not right

again, why are you taking the ability alone? Nader can use nades to give herself an advantageous position in the ensuing firefight. Fletcher bombs are not nearly as effective at flushing people out due to how slow a throw is.

I feel i need to correct something. I dont mean that a fletcher will kill a target with his bombs from full HP every time, BUT most decent fletchers will spam at least one bomb and deal most of his damage with that to soften a guy up, which a nader can also do but again, her detonation delay is much longer and the nades deal less damage.

a fletcher can corner peek huck bombs into rooms and throw them pretty far too, and yes, nader is an assault and fletcher is an engy, but fletcher is VERY CLOSE IN KILL POTENTIAL AND EXPLOSIVE SPAMMINESS TO NADER while also being an engineer.

the detonation is instant if you score a direct hit, and high skilled players tend to score quite a few of them. Most importantly though, nader does not have to expose herself to fire while softening people up.

fletcher can corner peek but its VERY SLOW when pushing. If i try to be the pointman (assault) as fletcher, and throw/hide/detonate a few bombs the push is effectively stopped, crossifres are setup and attack gets squished. Alternatively, Nader can spam nades from safety and push defense off the choke, or kill them outright; similarly with a fragger prenade instakill.

Yes, fletcher is strong in pubs when its all chaos and defense is not nearly as organized. try to squeeze a tight defense off a crossfire, and you likely would wish you had a grenade launcher/frag nade instead.

EDIT: i looked it up, redeye according to http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/ arms in 5 seconds and defuses in 8 and proxy (and as a result BW and fletcher) arms in 3 defuses in 4. I was right, twice as fast

you may be right about arm/defuse times, honestly don’t know. Repair is 3 times faster for engies, that one im sure of.

(Naonna) #90

Give the person above me credit: they DID answer each of the questions posed…

(sonsofaugust5) #91

@Szakalot Goin’ so hard. Making strong points. Really I don’t waste my time talking about stats. Nader is nothing like fletcher. Comp players don’t use fletcher.
@ballito Everyone uses blishlok with fletcher. It’s a must for comp. The second you appear you get shot at. Defense has almost e very line of sight setup. Shotguns are awful in competitive modes where defenses are setup and communication tells the entire team where the fletcher is (with a shotgun). Nades don’t deal less damage. Nader is long range because of her detonation time. If you’re gonna be up close with nader use a gun. I love watching noob nader’s try to shoot nades at me when im ten feet away. Unless they can direct hit, easy pick’ins.

(sonsofaugust5) #92

@Ballto Using sparks to talk bout DPS and compare to fletchers stickies was a bad idea. Sparks revivr is instant and can 1 shot every merc except 3 and that is post nerfs. Only a noob sparks walks into the open then charges a full charge, then shoots. Fletchers bombs take time to detonate and 1 sticky only kills 4 squishy mercs. His detonation time is awful without lockon. Proxy isn’t really used much in comp either so bringing her up isnt really helpful.

(Ballto) #93

We were talking about the bishlok when i mentioned sparks DPS

[quote=“Szakalot;152860”]snip

[/quote]

Pre emp 9 nerf shotgun fletcher was viable in all forms since the emp 9 used to be basically a hochfir in range potential while you also had the situational cqc power house. After the emp 9 changes however im not entirely sure how good it is anymore as it hasnt been long enough to collect information.

That being said even though there is no other option the weapon he gets is still very, very good, at this point without better statistical data and access to some kind of API (I think API is the one? i r nut gud compooter) to compare the performance of all weapons across various skill levels like this http://ps2oraclestats.com/ were basically arguing personal SMG preference. One thing im pretty sure you and i can agree on though is the bishlok is not a bad weapon, its not the be all end all OPOPOPMLGMLGMLG gun but its still good and pretty viable especially at mediumish ranges where you can really take advantage of its good recoil and accuracy

First off the grenade launcher does have a huge cof compared to the stickies, seeing as stickies are pinpoint and the nade launcher has a cone of fire. Its still accurate, but not as accurate.

On stickies and fletcher as a character, if he were made an assault right now because reasons and lost his engineer perk with no other changes, he would be the worst assault no question. Period.

However he is still very, very close to assault territory, and because he has the ability to be ALMOST as good as other assaults at killing and clearing and bomb spammery.

when i say almost i mean about 85% as good which is still very close, based off the difference in performance on my personal stats compared to nader, which i dont like doing but without a way to compare his stats overall with everyone i have to.

Youre trading about 15% total effectiveness for engineering, which is probably the second most useful to the team class in game behind medics, while also gett a nader just barely worse than a true nader and very good weaponry and character base stats (hp/speed)

He is trying to fit the roll of two different kinds of mercs, an assault and an engineer, like Sparks was trying to fit the rolls of two merc, a sniper and a medic. I mean sure, technically a vasili was better as a sniper because he had recon and the BASRs did more damage and could OHK more classes and (i think) had/have a faster rechamber time if you tried to fully charge the REVIVR, but a medic shouldnt also fit the roll of a sniper almost as good because she can not only snipe but support her team significantly more than a sniper ever could so long as she could kill and heal.

An engineer should never be an assault (or close to) because he can support his team much more than a nader ever could so long as he could kill and plant/rep

(sonsofaugust5) #94

I think he should have the same movement speed and hp as bushwacker. You underestimate bushwackers ability. The emp 9 got nerfed. KEK over blishlok is what most people are choosing because there is a bushwacker with a blishlok and two really good abilities. The KEK only gets lockout. The turret can be used as a shield. It also shoots enemies so while you are repairing you know if an enemy is near. It is also a lot better at defending plants than stickies. Stickies has a small hitbox but its 1 click and they are gone. You gotta take a turret down and good turret placement is usually behind the line of fire such as on the side of the traincard facing objective in trainyard or on the bookshelf or whatever in underground. Fletcher has to throw and detonate the stickies versus a turret that automatically shoots when characters enter its line of sight, which is arguably much better for an engineer. Nader can take out a secondary gen in seconds. Try doing that with fletcher. Its faster to plant and let it go off. Assault vs eng.

(sonsofaugust5) #95

Take away the empire 9 by all means. Any secondary is used to finish enemies off after a sticky anyways. Empire 9 has awful range and dropoff, not really useful unless someone is hugging you.

(LifeupOmega) #96

My one and only issue with Fletcher is the recharge rate of his bombs, and this is coming from someone who plays him a ton.

(bizarreRectangle) #97

@Ballto You’re making calculations based off your…personal stats? I think you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you even try comp?

@Szakalot already pointed out how the nade launcher was better for assault so I won’t even bother. Props to him for dealing with your posts.

(bizarreRectangle) #98

This thread has become such a mess lol.

(Randomdeath) #99

Everyone that gets killed by a certain merc more than a few times in a row says they need nerf. THEN they go and complain when their main gets nerfed. As fletcher main i can tell you right now if you were to decrese the sticky damage at all they woudlent be usable, and taking away mid air detonation would make him even worse. Because sometimes you throw a sticky over something, and det it before it lands to get more damage. They already buffed Vassili so it takes two stickies or a sticky and a shot to kill. Its annoying already. Stop nerfing all of the mercs, it’s killing the game by making it boring and harder and harder

(Ballto) #100

[quote=“bizarreRectangle;153198”]@Ballto You’re making calculations based off your…personal stats? I think you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you even try comp?

@Szakalot already pointed out how the nade launcher was better for assault so I won’t even bother. Props to him for dealing with your posts.[/quote]

ive actually been in comp pretty much 100% the past few days and was basing most of my arguments off pubs. My opinion on fletcher might change, not that it really matters.

i wouldnt even mention personal stats if the devs made performance stats overall public