Does Fletcher Really Need to be Changed?

(watsyurdeal) #201

After a lot of thought and playtime, I’ve come to the conclusion that a cooldown nerf, and a reduction of stickies from 3 to 2 would be enough to balance him. Cutting down on the spam and forcing him to use his guns more rather than purely using his stickies. Which, let’s be honest, you pretty much can do all the time without trouble. They recharge fast, and you have 3 which means you’re bound to kill one or two people with ease.

(Szakalot) #202

cooldown nerf AND sticky amount nerf? thats HUGE.

going down from 3 to 2 stickies is a very very big nerf already, that would probably require some cooldown buff, while still remaining a strong nerf.

thats exactly the situation originally, fletcher had about 12 sec stickies at max 4: it was actually a lot spammier back then. going down to 2 from 3 is a bigger deal, just like going down from 2 to 1.

please stop with the out of proportion nerf suggestions, a 1 sec longer cooldown (thats 10% less stickies TOTAL) would already be more than enough to reduce spam. it might kill him in comp, but oh well, the bushwhacked meta wasnt that bad

(AnimeDude) #203

This is bait right

(watsyurdeal) #204

[quote=“Szakalot;164667”]cooldown nerf AND sticky amount nerf? thats HUGE.

going down from 3 to 2 stickies is a very very big nerf already, that would probably require some cooldown buff, while still remaining a strong nerf.

thats exactly the situation originally, fletcher had about 12 sec stickies at max 4: it was actually a lot spammier back then. going down to 2 from 3 is a bigger deal, just like going down from 2 to 1.

please stop with the out of proportion nerf suggestions, a 1 sec longer cooldown (thats 10% less stickies TOTAL) would already be more than enough to reduce spam. it might kill him in comp, but oh well, the bushwhacked meta wasnt that bad[/quote]

Well according to this, the cooldown is already at 10 seconds, so really all he needs is one less sticky and that’ll be fine.

You would never need more than 2 anyhow to deal with the majority of mercs, even Rhino only needs two sticks to kill.

(Szakalot) #205

@AnimeDude like i pointed out, 1sec longer cooldown is 10% less total sticky spam. sounds like a fair nerf to me. you have to realize that a cooldown nerf applies to every sticky the fletcher uses, after the initial 3.

the reasob why i dislike going down to 2 stickies is cause it makes the merc more bland to play. cant make elaborate traps, cant throw 2 from behind and than a 3rd one to blow peoplenup. sticky use is also largely about suppressing people and pre-fire. goind down to 2 would require a cooldown buff (as a flat nerf to 2 would kill the merc)

(Ritobasu) #206

I’d rather Fletcher keeps his 3 stickies, just nerf

  • Cooldown from 8s to 11s (it’s actually 8 seconds, time it yourself)
  • No more airbursting stickies
  • Maximum splash damage reduced from 100 to 80
  • Maximum splash radius halved

What I’ve always been saying since the beginning of this thread

(TheHel1x) #207

[quote=“Ritobasu;164838”]I’d rather Fletcher keeps his 3 stickies, just nerf

  • Cooldown from 8s to 11s (it’s actually 8 seconds, time it yourself)
  • No more airbursting stickies
  • Maximum splash damage reduced from 100 to 80
  • Maximum splash radius halved

What I’ve always been saying since the beginning of this thread[/quote]

LOL some people are just ridiculous with their ideas of a fair nerf. @Ritobasu Try playing 50 hours with Fletcher and then see if you still think the same about your “nerf” (More like “make Fletcher so useless he makes Phantom/Thunder look good”)

(friendlyDaze) #208

Not too bad actually. However why not just make it so it takes time for them to blow maybe 4 secs or 3?

(friendlyDaze) #209

I rather play more of a defense reactionary style. It just seems more rewarding. I think we should delay his sticky blow up time to maybe 4 to 5 secs and also make it so he can trigger them really quick or just be able to switch his weps fast.

(Szakalot) #210

lol stop with this silly suggestions, rotfl.

(DxDark) #211

What’s silly is people think 1 being grenade NEAR someone doing 80 damage is fair when BULLETS TO THE HEAD from most guns don’t do that much. That’s where the skill goes out the window because you only have to be CLOSE to the target, like SMGs at mid-close range, made for people who can’t burst-rifle or snipe…grenades for people who don’t have the balls to SHOTGUN or can’t aim with Blishlock.

Unstuck nades should do 40dmg FLAT NEAR (period, even if it was off the character by an inch), and 80DMG when stuck so you pansies don’t toss them and run off because you can’t hit the broadside of a barn with your rifles…reward players that actually aim and toss, not anyone.

Every other merc has been tuned for balance and the only people stuck on stoop about his grenades are the people who purchased him for the sole purpose of freebie grenade kills without having the stigma of Nader.

(Naonna) #212

@DxDark @friendlyDaze … You know a recommendation to nerf Fletcher this hard is bad when I’m ENTIRELY agreeing with @Eox on this matter.

I DO play Fletcher, so fully believe that giving him the phantom treatment is NOT the way to go. - Direct sticks should be rewarded: it’s only air burst/splash damage which annoys me. - Giving Fletcher stickies a massive arming delay would make him a non-viable version of proxy, with non-auto-detonating explosives.

Even 80 damage on a direct stick is almost nothing when you consider Fletchers don’t have to only kill light mercs: they have to deal with Fraggers and Skyhammers as well. 80 damage on one of those mercs is barely a scratch to them, when a cooked Fragger nade can instantly down multiple players in a group. Fletcher’s explosives are not on this level, and never will/should be.

Don’t over-nerf him. He has a unique play style, even if he mostly is used for pubstomps.

(hoops) #213

I love how two-four people who most definitely play mostly fletcher are, seemingly, the only ones arguing against nerfs (as in “he’s balanced, don’t touch him.”)

And I use the word “arguing” very lightly, as the only arguments I’ve seen are “but you don’t play as much fletcher as I do,”“but he’s not viable in competitive,” and the good 'ol passive-aggressive “I’m gonna click the disagree button instead of presenting a proper argument.” Not to mention the fact that even the lightest suggestions (not the case as of late, admittedly) get a swarm of “disagree” tags.

The instant someone who isn’t extremely biased decides to sit down and explain why fletcher is 100% balanced, I’ll eat my own shit, but until then, I rest my case. (That is, if someone who isn’t biased can adequately explain why he’s balanced and doesn’t need a nerf, combatting every argument posed for a nerf, I’ll eat my own shit.)

(Szakalot) #214

you havent read very thoroughly then. Eox and I gave a plethora of arguments, i believe in bulletpoints at one point.

‘check your privilege’ is not a counter argument

(TheHel1x) #215

Another person who gets wrecked by Fletcher and blames lack of balance instead of using his head to find a way to counter him. my game time consists of 33% Engineer (Fletcher) 33% Fire-support and 33% Recon. I play all 3 classes quite well and Fletcher aint any better at his job then Aimee or Kira or Arty or Redeye.

Contrary to popular belief, Fletch is a defensive merc. He hold down choke points and corners in a forward position but he is not attacking, hes holding the forward line. He can flank but so many other mercs are better at it them he is.

I am not really sure what people’s problems are with Fletcher. I don’t have the best aim but I have no more trouble with Fletcher then I do surviving a fight with any other merc in the game.

(Dawnlazy) #216

It’s not just people who don’t play Fletcher and “get rekt” who dislike the way he is, I play Fletcher for my team since I’m the engie and there’s no reason to touch the other 2 engies. People in this thread try to argue that “he’s just good at CQC like he’s supposed to”, well, how would you feel if PDP Redeyes just said “stop engaging us at long range :^)”?

He’s broken because he’s TOO good at close range, like I said just look at how much Bushwhacker and Proxy have to work to get a single kill and how easy Fletcher has it, kills come by so effortlessly and it’s honestly pretty silly how one can pull off bullshit like holding an entire team on Trainyard second objective just by jumping from behind the gate and spamming stickies down the chokepoint. Why did everyone else get crappy jumping accuracy but the jumping black man gets to keep doing this crap? Why does Nader have to wait after throwing her nades, Fragger has to wait before throwing his but Fletcher gets to have the best of both worlds on a super short cooldown?

Just looking at the last DBN cup, the only non-Fletcher team I recall seeing was t$t with Kingsley who’s a Proxy hipster. Aside from that, all Fletchers, because he is broken as an engineer. Bushwhacker spends most of his time being a 110HP guy with an smg versus Fletcher who is a slightly faster 110HP guy with 2 smgs - without even counting his clearly inferior and far more situational ability compared to Fletcher’s corner-peeking airbust rockets. Proxy is just sad. Imagine if they took 20 HP from Fletcher, removed one of his stickes, put them on 20 second cooldown, cut down their range and took away manual detonation so you had to shoot them? He’d then become Proxy :^).

(hoops) #217

I implore anyone who’s trying to show they’re not biased to post proof and not just say so.

(Szakalot) #218

trololol, what type of proof of unbias would you accept?

and why is it jumping black man? never heard anyone refer to aura’s ethnicity.

try playing fletcher on chapel, bush is 50times better. last ev push fletcher is a deadweight, cant get close, cant push people off crossfires

(ClemClem7) #219

It’s good to not waste time arguing on this subject during few weeks.
Most fletcher’s main want him to stay as he is, almost every other people want him to be nerfed.
I saw good arguments from @Dawnrazor and @Naonna.
I have already said that but I’ll repeat myself:
Fletcher is fun to play as an assault but is OP as an engineer.
He need a nerf, but not a new phantom’s one.

(TheHel1x) #220

Fletcher DOES need tweaking, I do admit that but he is NOT over powered. People like to throw “OP” around like a Frisbee bit this is not the truth for Fletcher. I dont consider any of the mercs “OP”. Redeye w/PDP is pretty strong. Does it need tweaking? Yes, is it “OP”? No. There is a huge difference between “OP” and “Needs work”. If a merc is “OP” then it can outdo ANY other merc. Ok, Fletcher CANNOT out-do every merc in the game and therefore he is not OP, not even close.