Devs ignoring the community on some issues (specifically jump-sniping nerfs)

[Jesus2]

not a large majority

Twice as much people for than agaisnt is a large majority what the fuck people dont you know how to read simple figures?

[23OO23]

Besides the revivr which is not anymore i dont see what amazing weapon she has, its secondaries that can only be used on emergency situation by shortening her range they made her forced to go closer to people, problem is she has no survivability being that close, most of the time everyone will kill you. And this revivr shoot some and switch to mp technic doesnt really work if you dont have the time to charge your shot so basically anyone jumping on you and you are dead anyone coming from a corner at what ever distance and your dead too. Shooting across the map was what she was able to do, she was long distance.
Mid Range just doesnt work.

Let’s see. I’ve played with Sparks today, she had no real problems with “sniping” both her teammates and my team. Somehow she managed to do much. I remember playing a few times with high level Sparks - all of them were not sitting far away, they were constantly in the midsts of battle, the only real difference between them and less accurate people is that they were like Vassili with aimbot - rush in, check for target, headshot, profit, proceed further and revive any teammate there is. Just because she has a gun does not mean she is meant for long range - she is simply meant to be able to revive from a distance. Because of that she has a huge advantage over other medics. Good sniper does not sit in one place - he moves. You want to tell me that all those good players with lvl 60+ I have played with sucked and did everything wrong with him? I don’t think so, because they scored better than most other people.

Really - revgun is really strong, it’s just that her capabilities were too good, and there is a difference between a medic that has to watch out for teammates and rush to them exposing themselves and a medic that can just position herself behind the corner and revive someone then disappear or even snipe perfectly enemy next to him - they just made her more skill based, but it’s not even an issue because she is still good at long range, just less.

Its harder to achieve yes but its difficulty made on luck because RNG and not made on skill.
how can someone thinks that its normal that parts of a gameplay starts being based on luck and not anymore on what you are able to do. When something gets more difficult to do because of the difficulty to execute yes when something gets more difficult because even if you do it perfectly you fail, no. It just dont pass. There was no reason to implement RNG as a gameplay mechanic. Its just bad.

Sadly I cannot agree with all of it - either every good player I have played with use hacks and aimbots - because otherwise this tactic wouldn’t work. And it does - but is simply less viable <and “less” does not mean “not”>. Or - RNG-sama hates me and this day, today, day that we have now - I had 6 matches with good players who did this and somehow were successful. Damn. I must have sinned with something. And I had games like those before, and tbh I see almost no change in behavior of players I play with. Maybe they all use hacks and did not even feel the change? Who knows. Not me :'c

“Im gonna make a game like this”
“Oh now that you paid some money cause you liked the game im gonna change it and make the game like that if you dont like it deal with it”
If thats their line of conduct no wonder brink was a monumental failure because this is just being scumbags to the people who makes your company lives and this is how your company dies.

Now here You really sound like You don’t know what beta is, or to be more precise - not a complete product. It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better. The only problem I and many other people see is that community simply reacts with open aggression and stuff like “devs do nothing blah blah blah” - which not only makes them less motivated to do anything from themselves, which leads to lack of new content, but also make them less willing to interact with community - because why. Or at least less new content - because who wants to continue making a product that after one change, in making phase, met with so much hate and low ratings <because some people after this kind of thing or even without trying the game and only reading opinions go and rate game poorly, or write on steam reviews stuff that is not even half true - if I read this pile of crap I wouldn’t even try half of games I liked because of toxic reactions>

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“Mercy;151154”]an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him.

He’s got some of the most powerful weapons in the whole game for people who can use base FPS skills
[/quote]

Yeah it’s uh… It’s a sniper. Yeah it’s pretty… pretty powerful.

Tell me how this is fair if you won’t let me jump shoot you but you can jump shoot me? How is this defendable. Explain.

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151196”]#3 TL;DR It’s still beta, meaning things will change, and people should keep suggestions and opinions as much polite as they can - because the way OP wrote everything, and sadly as some posts went <which is a thing for most debates, but whelp> - it’s like he’s attacking devs, not explaining his point.

nah m8 let’s open 88 threads with polls, get mad and call the devs stupid that’s how progress is made[/quote]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151196”]#3 TL;DR It’s still beta, meaning things will change, and people should keep suggestions and opinions as much polite as they can - because the way OP wrote everything, and sadly as some posts went <which is a thing for most debates, but whelp> - it’s like he’s attacking devs, not explaining his point.

nah m8 let’s open 88 threads with polls, get mad and call the devs stupid that’s how progress is made[/quote]

If you call what they’re doing with these patches “progress” then you should join their group. I’m sure they would welcome one of their own with open arms.

[spoiler]https://media2.giphy.com/media/kDIhIpwRRIi3K/200_s.gif[/spoiler]

[Jesus2]

It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…

[Amerika]

[quote=“blonk;151194”][quote=“Mercy;151154”]an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him.

He’s got some of the most powerful weapons in the whole game for people who can use base FPS skills
[/quote]

Yeah it’s uh… It’s a sniper. Yeah it’s pretty… pretty powerful.

Tell me how this is fair if you won’t let me jump shoot you but you can jump shoot me? How is this defendable. Explain.[/quote]

You should throw in the ability to consistently hipfire any other weapon while you’re at it

[23OO23]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>

[Sinee]

[quote=“Mercy;151180”]I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars in Dirty Bomb, in support of DB and it’s development. I’m entitled to be entitled and have my views.

No you are not entitled because you spend hundreds of dollars. It is an beta, in development game, it may change as the developers see fit.

You are however entitled to have your views. Hope you can see the difference ;).
[/quote]

Absolutely I do. But you came into this thread saying people who were sharing their views were entitled. We don’t like this change, we’re sharing our (usually) constructive opinions as to why we don’t.
I am 50000% entitled to share my opinion and have an opinion. I’ve played this game for 22398429348 hours and spent 23094829348 dollars on it. If I don’t like a change, I’m gonna post it and explain why. I’m not holding my hand out expecting SD to give me something, but I am expecting my opinion to be heard and count for something. Especially when it’s my main merc getting fucked with.

[quote=“Merciless;151328”][quote=“blonk;151194”][quote=“Mercy;151154”]an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him.

He’s got some of the most powerful weapons in the whole game for people who can use base FPS skills
[/quote]

Yeah it’s uh… It’s a sniper. Yeah it’s pretty… pretty powerful.

Tell me how this is fair if you won’t let me jump shoot you but you can jump shoot me? How is this defendable. Explain.[/quote]

You should throw in the ability to consistently hipfire any other weapon while you’re at it :)[/quote]

Omg thissssss.

[Jesus2]

[quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay.

[23OO23]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151346”][quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay. [/quote]

This change did not occur right away - they thought about it, made it and implemented, and now they will see what it does - and sadly “it’s useless now” or simply implying that something is derped somehow does not seem to be what they are looking for, and they will probably prefer to look at streams of people who actually try things differently or simply stats as to how it actually impact the game over reading posts oozing with hate.

Sadly this change is still fresh, and any complains looks like someone did not even try them for more than one match, which probably was a bad one - everyone has them. And I will be honest, I did not see anyone complaining ingame, I did not see any mayor change to how people play, because I will repeat it - I played today more than 6 matches with people jumping around successfully hitting me, and it’s only about today - so from my side these opinions seems somehow unreliable.

As I said I cannot agree with RNG impacting the game that much - I still see people jump shooting with great success, simply less of them <which is actually good, match full of jumping people is not funny at all in my opinion> - even Vassili can score jump hit, as they did when I was playing - simply because You can’t get used to something right away does not mean it’s worse. And again as I said before - either RNG hates me and whoever fights with me gets 100 to luck while jumping, or they use hacks. Or, just maybe… just a little bit maybe… they actually tried to somehow play with it? I dunno, I am but a Dirty Cheap medic without any actual medical license… :'c

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“pinkOrchid;151220”]not a large majority

Twice as much people for than agaisnt is a large majority what the fuck people dont you know how to read simple figures?
[/quote]

The sample size makes the poll meaningless.

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“Jesus;151357”][quote=“friendlyWall;151346”][quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay. [/quote]

This change did not occur right away - they thought about it, made it and implemented, and now they will see what it does - and sadly “it’s useless now” or simply implying that something is derped somehow does not seem to be what they are looking for, and they will probably prefer to look at streams of people who actually try things differently or simply stats as to how it actually impact the game over reading posts oozing with hate.

Sadly this change is still fresh, and any complains looks like someone did not even try them for more than one match, which probably was a bad one - everyone has them. And I will be honest, I did not see anyone complaining ingame, I did not see any mayor change to how people play, because I will repeat it - I played today more than 6 matches with people jumping around successfully hitting me, and it’s only about today - so from my side these opinions seems somehow unreliable.

As I said I cannot agree with RNG impacting the game that much - I still see people jump shooting with great success, simply less of them <which is actually good, match full of jumping people is not funny at all in my opinion> - even Vassili can score jump hit, as they did when I was playing - simply because You can’t get used to something right away does not mean it’s worse. And again as I said before - either RNG hates me and whoever fights with me gets 100 to luck while jumping, or they use hacks. Or, just maybe… just a little bit maybe… they actually tried to somehow play with it? I dunno, I am but a Dirty Cheap medic without any actual medical license… :'c[/quote]

Lemme educate you a little bit. Yes, Vassili can jump shoot… if he’s using his secondary. If someone jump sniped you it’s not because the guy aimed at you and was good enough to shoot you. Not anymore. Splash Damage does not accept skill anymore. It was RNG. He got lucky. RNG shooting in a FPS game = No bueno. So I’ll just ask you a quick question just out of curiosity. Did you enjoy being unlucky and shot by a sniper that just so happened to hit you because well… RNGesus said so? Or would you have preferred being shot by a precise shot in which the sniper had his aim on you? In other words where he actually deserved that kill. I don’t know about you but for me it feels a little better being shot by the guy because he’s good instead of being shot by a bullet who just decided well… I’ll just go 2 cm to the right and 3 cm below aaaannnndd… Oh! Dink. Congrats.

The way they did it now, any other mercenary in Dirty Bomb using a shotgun, smg or a rifle can jump and shoot. The spread doesn’t affect those weapons as much as it does with the snipers. Because it’s obvious… those weapons do not just shoot one bullet at a time.

Now, this change isn’t fresh. They tried to implement this earlier on and it did not work. They reverted the change. This was back then when Vassili could insta-gib, imagine. Now he’s been nerfed more than back then but now they decide it’s a good time to implement something that didn’t work in the first place when he was more powerful then what he is now? Nah bruh. Naaaaahhhhhh.

You got Rambo smgs and rifles in which you can just hip fire and spray like a mindless action hero and dink every single bullet straight in the head of your target from long range. But then sniping is a problem… If you ever play a sniper you know that you never really have an advantage on anyone unless they’re not aiming at you. Because believe it or not if you’re in a 1v1 fight with a skyhammer for example from long range… Trust me he will hurt the fuck outta you with his rifle and even kill you if he’s good. You have just a slight advantage at long range. IF YOU CAN FIND THE LONG RANGE SPOTS IN DB. Because trust me, in a game like DB where everyone is a Bugatti Veyron, it’s hard to keep your enemies far.

[23OO23]

[quote=“Merciless;151383”]
Lemme educate you a little bit. Yes, Vassili can jump shoot… if he’s using his secondary. If someone jump sniped you it’s not because the guy aimed at you and was good enough to shoot you. Not anymore. Splash Damage does not accept skill anymore. It was RNG. He got lucky. RNG shooting in a FPS game = No bueno. So I’ll just ask you a quick question just out of curiosity. Did you enjoy being unlucky and shot by a sniper that just so happened to hit you because well… RNGesus said so? Or would you have preferred being shot by a precise shot in which the sniper had his aim on you? In other words where he actually deserved that kill. I don’t know about you but for me it feels a little better being shot by the guy because he’s good instead of being shot by a bullet who just decided well… I’ll just go 2 cm to the right and 3 cm below aaaannnndd… Oh! Dink. Congrats.

The way they did it now, any other mercenary in Dirty Bomb using a shotgun, smg or a rifle can jump and shoot. The spread doesn’t affect those weapons as much as it does with the snipers. Because it’s obvious… those weapons do not just shoot one bullet at a time.

Now, this change isn’t fresh. They tried to implement this earlier on and it did not work. They reverted the change. This was back then when Vassili could insta-gib, imagine. Now he’s been nerfed more than back then but now they decide it’s a good time to implement something that didn’t work in the first place when he was more powerful then what he is now? Nah bruh. Naaaaahhhhhh.

You got Rambo smgs and rifles in which you can just hip fire and spread like a mindless action hero and dink every single bullet straight in the head of your target from long range. But then sniping is a problem… If you ever play a sniper you know that you never really have an advantage on anyone unless they’re not aiming at you. Because believe it or not if you’re in a 1v1 fight with a skyhammer for example from long range… Trust me he will hurt the fuck outta you with his rifle and even kill you if he’s good. You have just a slight advantage at long range. IF YOU CAN FIND THE LONG RANGE SPOTS IN DB. Because trust me, in a game like DB where everyone is a Bugatti Veyron, it’s hard to keep your enemies far.[/quote]

Well I cannot disagree that You can easily countersnipe a sniper - I do it pretty often. But with ironsights - because shooting from the hip with constant fire cause a big spread on most weapons, true that some are more accurate but I think they were meant for that.

For me sniping while jumping is pretty stupid in the essence, after all weapons with a scope were not meant for that, and when You jump with other firearms - You are not aiming down the iron-sights, am I right? Sniper rifles except for PDP-70 can still instagib most characters, even more - they destroy heads meaning instant death - it’s just that Vasili has to stand to aim properly, because honestly - how the hell are You supposed to aim with a scope in midair? For me it’s the core essence of this is stupid and sniper rifle is strong no matter what - they were meant for people with good aim - true that sniper should change positions, and ranges in DB are not big, but if even medium scoring people at 5-20lvl can manage to do that without jump sniping, then I dunno why so much hate about actually making him good at close range due to damage of heavier sniper rifles.

As You said - it’s fantastic to get bodyshotted with stronger sniper rifle as Aura or Sparks. Marvelous. And while he’s jumping? Holy guacamole, skilled player that can kill me without problems in any situations without giving me any chance even though his weapon is not designed for that and everyone think that secondary weapon is always meant for when main weapon run out of magazine. Truly marvelous my good sir :>

And for those moments with being sniped from point blank - I always consider them luck based, because I do play Vasili and I do know how big is the spread from hip fire on his sniper rifles. And I think sniper is supposed to be long ranged character that if paired with good aim is a devastating character - and he is, but like every sniper in almost every game, he’s not meant for people who want to get personal, but stay back and if they think and manage surroundings - move. But not get close, or jump with a scope over the fence - how is that even.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Jesus;151357”][quote=“friendlyWall;151346”][quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay. [/quote]

This change did not occur right away - they thought about it, made it and implemented, and now they will see what it does - and sadly “it’s useless now” or simply implying that something is derped somehow does not seem to be what they are looking for, and they will probably prefer to look at streams of people who actually try things differently or simply stats as to how it actually impact the game over reading posts oozing with hate.

Sadly this change is still fresh, and any complains looks like someone did not even try them for more than one match, which probably was a bad one - everyone has them. And I will be honest, I did not see anyone complaining ingame, I did not see any mayor change to how people play, because I will repeat it - I played today more than 6 matches with people jumping around successfully hitting me, and it’s only about today - so from my side these opinions seems somehow unreliable.

As I said I cannot agree with RNG impacting the game that much - I still see people jump shooting with great success, simply less of them <which is actually good, match full of jumping people is not funny at all in my opinion> - even Vassili can score jump hit, as they did when I was playing - simply because You can’t get used to something right away does not mean it’s worse. And again as I said before - either RNG hates me and whoever fights with me gets 100 to luck while jumping, or they use hacks. Or, just maybe… just a little bit maybe… they actually tried to somehow play with it? I dunno, I am but a Dirty Cheap medic without any actual medical license… :'c[/quote]

You do realize that this change happened once before and it was almost immediately taken out of the game due to severe issues with weakening Vassili, right? SD only put it in again because the main dev doesn’t like the mechanic and their desire to not have something in they do not like overrides the actual balance of the merc. Also, some of the most vocal and notable Vas players who squawked the loudest at the change are no longer around.

Basically, SD already knows exactly what this change will do to Vassili’s value and they don’t care. This is because Smooth/Exedore don’t like jump sniping. Smooth’s words on stream was that it was “annoying to play against”. That’s it. That was the sole reason for the change. Not for a more balanced game. Not for a more fun and varied playstyle for Vassili, and not because it was overpowered. It was just annoying for them because you had to approach somebody who could actually do it differently than the classic “peek” snipers.

His defensive and offensive options were drastically impacted with the change and all he got in exchange was 10hp to help with the limited shot options. Oh, and back during the last time they tried this change, he could still instagib headshot. So he’s even weaker now than the last time they tried this and determined he was too weak and rolled the changes back.

This change had nothing to do with balance or better gameplay and everything to do with the designers liking what they like. I can’t fault them for their preferences but they have to have better answers than “it’s annoying” if they are going to change something that has worked this way for a very long time and completely destroy his viability in anything competitive related.

[Sinee]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151366”][quote=“Jesus;151357”][quote=“friendlyWall;151346”][quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dyont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay. [/quote]

This change did not occur right away - they thought about it, made it and implemented, and now they will see what it does - and sadly “it’s useless now” or simply implying that something is derped somehow does not seem to be what they are looking for, and they will probably prefer to look at streams of people who actually try things differently or simply stats as to how it actually impact the game over reading posts oozing with hate.

Sadly this change is still fresh, and any complains looks like someone did not even try them for more than one match, which probably was a bad one - everyone has them. And I will be honest, I did not see anyone complaining ingame, I did not see any mayor change to how people play, because I will repeat it - I played today more than 6 matches with people jumping around successfully hitting me, and it’s only about today - so from my side these opinions seems somehow unreliable.

As I said I cannot agree with RNG impacting the game that much - I still see people jump shooting with great success, simply less of them <which is actually good, match full of jumping people is not funny at all in my opinion> - even Vassili can score jump hit, as they did when I was playing - simply because You can’t get used to something right away does not mean it’s worse. And again as I said before - either RNG hates me and whoever fights with me gets 100 to luck while jumping, or they use hacks. Or, just maybe… just a little bit maybe… they actually tried to somehow play with it? I dunno, I am but a Dirty Cheap medic without any actual medical license… :'c[/quote]

You do realize that this change happened once before and it was almost immediately taken out of the game due to severe issues with weakening Vassili, right? SD only put it in again because the main dev doesn’t like the mechanic and their desire to not have something in they do not like overrides the actual balance of the merc. Also, some of the most vocal and notable Vas players who squawked the loudest at the change are no longer around.

Basically, SD already knows exactly what this change will do to Vassili’s value and they don’t care. This is because Smooth/Exedore don’t like jump sniping. Smooth’s words on stream was that it was “annoying to play against”. That’s it. That was the sole reason for the change. Not for a more balanced game. Not for a more fun and varied playstyle for Vassili, and not because it was overpowered. It was just annoying for them because you had to approach somebody who could actually do it differently than the classic “peek” snipers.

His defensive and offensive options were drastically impacted with the change and all he got in exchange was 10hp to help with the limited shot options. Oh, and back during the last time they tried this change, he could still instagib headshot. So he’s even weaker now than the last time they tried this and determined he was too weak and rolled the changes back.

This change had nothing to do with balance or better gameplay and everything to do with the designers liking what they like. I can’t fault them for their preferences but they have to have better answers than “it’s annoying” if they are going to change something that has worked this way for a very long time and completely destroy his viability in anything competitive related.[/quote]
Omg this. I wanna buy you a drink.

[watsyurdeal]

I gotta admit that is one flaw I think Splash has, they rather do things they prefer than listen to what the competitive community wants.

Perfect example, PHANTOM.

opens can of worms

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151366”][quote=“Jesus;151357”][quote=“friendlyWall;151346”][quote=“Jesus;151332”][quote=“friendlyWall;151298”] It’s not like they change something people like

but thats exactly what they did…[/quote]

Perfect example of taking something out of context - I followed this thought ;>[/quote]

Oh please…;

It’s not like they change something people like - they try to see if it can be changed for something better.

Here is your whole sentence.

They still changed something people liked.

They dont try to see if, they changed it like that out of the fucking blue without asking anyone. Devs dont do nothing they do changes no one wants out of the blue.

Are you really trying to argue that implementing RNG the gameplay doesnt reduce the potential of someone ? This is just plain stupid why would anyone argue thats its normal that bullet dont go where you are aiming. Yes some people dont feel it because of course if you jumpshot someone with an smg or a shotgun while sitting on their fucking head the guy is too close for it to have a difference but i could take some old videogameplay of the game and im quite sure 1/4 of the kill we would see with some merc wouldnt work anymore. Of course certain merc were less impacted than other and if you play those you wont feel the difference but for a merc like vassili its a freakin huge difference.

This change make no sense anyway, no one actually ever gave one valid reason to have RNG implemented in our gameplay. [/quote]

This change did not occur right away - they thought about it, made it and implemented, and now they will see what it does - and sadly “it’s useless now” or simply implying that something is derped somehow does not seem to be what they are looking for, and they will probably prefer to look at streams of people who actually try things differently or simply stats as to how it actually impact the game over reading posts oozing with hate.

Sadly this change is still fresh, and any complains looks like someone did not even try them for more than one match, which probably was a bad one - everyone has them. And I will be honest, I did not see anyone complaining ingame, I did not see any mayor change to how people play, because I will repeat it - I played today more than 6 matches with people jumping around successfully hitting me, and it’s only about today - so from my side these opinions seems somehow unreliable.

As I said I cannot agree with RNG impacting the game that much - I still see people jump shooting with great success, simply less of them <which is actually good, match full of jumping people is not funny at all in my opinion> - even Vassili can score jump hit, as they did when I was playing - simply because You can’t get used to something right away does not mean it’s worse. And again as I said before - either RNG hates me and whoever fights with me gets 100 to luck while jumping, or they use hacks. Or, just maybe… just a little bit maybe… they actually tried to somehow play with it? I dunno, I am but a Dirty Cheap medic without any actual medical license… :'c[/quote]

You do realize that this change happened once before and it was almost immediately taken out of the game due to severe issues with weakening Vassili, right? SD only put it in again because the main dev doesn’t like the mechanic and their desire to not have something in they do not like overrides the actual balance of the merc. Also, some of the most vocal and notable Vas players who squawked the loudest at the change are no longer around.

Basically, SD already knows exactly what this change will do to Vassili’s value and they don’t care. This is because Smooth/Exedore don’t like jump sniping. Smooth’s words on stream was that it was “annoying to play against”. That’s it. That was the sole reason for the change. Not for a more balanced game. Not for a more fun and varied playstyle for Vassili, and not because it was overpowered. It was just annoying for them because you had to approach somebody who could actually do it differently than the classic “peek” snipers.

His defensive and offensive options were drastically impacted with the change and all he got in exchange was 10hp to help with the limited shot options. Oh, and back during the last time they tried this change, he could still instagib headshot. So he’s even weaker now than the last time they tried this and determined he was too weak and rolled the changes back.

This change had nothing to do with balance or better gameplay and everything to do with the designers liking what they like. I can’t fault them for their preferences but they have to have better answers than “it’s annoying” if they are going to change something that has worked this way for a very long time and completely destroy his viability in anything competitive related.[/quote]

You know… as much as we don’t agree on points regarding Phantom, I always thought you were one to kiss the dev’s ass to be completely honest. I guess I was wrong. I think you’d go a little more ham if you weren’t a mod on the forums though…

But GOOD SHIT!

But yeah, completely agree and I don’t see how anyone could defend something like this unless you just hate snipers and don’t wanna be bothered by them. They need to revert this badly.

[23OO23]

[quote=“Amerika;151392”]
You do realize that this change happened once before and it was almost immediately taken out of the game due to severe issues with weakening Vassili, right? SD only put it in again because the main dev doesn’t like the mechanic and their desire to not have something in they do not like overrides the actual balance of the merc. Also, some of the most vocal and notable Vas players who squawked the loudest at the change are no longer around.

Basically, SD already knows exactly what this change will do to Vassili’s value and they don’t care. This is because Smooth/Exedore don’t like jump sniping. Smooth’s words on stream was that it was “annoying to play against”. That’s it. That was the sole reason for the change. Not for a more balanced game. Not for a more fun and varied playstyle for Vassili, and not because it was overpowered. It was just annoying for them because you had to approach somebody who could actually do it differently than the classic “peek” snipers.

His defensive and offensive options were drastically impacted with the change and all he got in exchange was 10hp to help with the limited shot options. Oh, and back during the last time they tried this change, he could still instagib headshot. So he’s even weaker now than the last time they tried this and determined he was too weak and rolled the changes back.

This change had nothing to do with balance or better gameplay and everything to do with the designers liking what they like. I can’t fault them for their preferences but they have to have better answers than “it’s annoying” if they are going to change something that has worked this way for a very long time and completely destroy his viability in anything competitive related.[/quote]

Well, can’t say what was before - I am not playing for that long, but I did see videos old and new, so I know what Vasili was before somewhat. I have seen worse nerfs in my life that were really worthy of raging, but honestly this is only one thing - jumping. I doubt Smooth said what he said just because it annoys him and other devs - tbh if I played longer with jumping snipers I would be annoyed too. Sadly sniper is what sniper is - long range sharpshooter, and what they removed was not his lethality at distance, but his lethality at close range, which should be actually a weak spot for a sniper. His secondary MP400 is not even that weak <sadly revolvers are not my thing even though I like them, but I guess they are for people with aim… about this I dunno> - so he actually has to use his secondary rather than jump around and use sniper rifle. Because that is an issue, not jumping over a fence. That a sniper can successfully shoot at people at close range with their sniper rifles, where any medic or lower hp characters will die in most cases.

I don’t know, I’ve seen videos as I tend to just watch stuff on yt and lately I am watching both old and new videos from Dirty Bomb - and the thing I am looking at is not how he was. But how he is. He’s not bad, he’s viable, he’s for people with aim and I see people playing him successfully. I don’t like this kind of phrasing, but sadly as someone said about other game I played - most people who does not complain about changes are having fun in game, and don’t even know about most of what is going on. And they’re happy. Unlike me… :sniff: :'c

:takes a sip from a can of worms: Mm, warm. I like Phantom, just his meele is hard to place successfully with everyone jumping around and he’s easy to be heard :'c

—edit—
As I did not see Merciles post.
I don’t hate snipers - I simply do not see them as being useless or worse than other characters, even without jumping - they are different. But it would seem I am “kissing some arses” so I will only say… lick arses erryday! Ok, joke. Bad one. Bad me. Either way only thing I hear is the same thing, so I am simply not persuaded that Vasili is somewhat bad - I still see him successful, even in a game with high levels there was a good Vasili and I was bothered by him very much - but at least I had a slight chance once when I got behind him… sadly he was good with secondary too, so I died. But he was doing what he he had to do: snipe everything that was moving and was not on his team, and he did it very nicely. If anyone wish to persuade me about this - go ahead. I simply cannot see how bad is Vasili now, because if he was nerfed so hard as people claim - then he was probably an OP character with aimbot as a passive skill, 300hp, best rifles as secondary and dunno what else ^^ That’s how people describe him to be before this “hard nerf”

[Jesus2]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;151407”]I gotta admit that is one flaw I think Splash has, they rather do things they prefer than listen to what the competitive community wants.

Perfect example, PHANTOM.

opens can of worms

[/quote]

yeah i completely lost my mind when i read on the round up. Phantom will not be buffed cause he is annoying to play agaisnt

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“friendlyWall;151423”][quote=“Amerika;151392”]
You do realize that this change happened once before and it was almost immediately taken out of the game due to severe issues with weakening Vassili, right? SD only put it in again because the main dev doesn’t like the mechanic and their desire to not have something in they do not like overrides the actual balance of the merc. Also, some of the most vocal and notable Vas players who squawked the loudest at the change are no longer around.

Basically, SD already knows exactly what this change will do to Vassili’s value and they don’t care. This is because Smooth/Exedore don’t like jump sniping. Smooth’s words on stream was that it was “annoying to play against”. That’s it. That was the sole reason for the change. Not for a more balanced game. Not for a more fun and varied playstyle for Vassili, and not because it was overpowered. It was just annoying for them because you had to approach somebody who could actually do it differently than the classic “peek” snipers.

His defensive and offensive options were drastically impacted with the change and all he got in exchange was 10hp to help with the limited shot options. Oh, and back during the last time they tried this change, he could still instagib headshot. So he’s even weaker now than the last time they tried this and determined he was too weak and rolled the changes back.

This change had nothing to do with balance or better gameplay and everything to do with the designers liking what they like. I can’t fault them for their preferences but they have to have better answers than “it’s annoying” if they are going to change something that has worked this way for a very long time and completely destroy his viability in anything competitive related.[/quote]

Well, can’t say what was before - I am not playing for that long, but I did see videos old and new, so I know what Vasili was before somewhat. I have seen worse nerfs in my life that were really worthy of raging, but honestly this is only one thing - jumping. I doubt Smooth said what he said just because it annoys him and other devs - tbh if I played longer with jumping snipers I would be annoyed too. Sadly sniper is what sniper is - long range sharpshooter, and what they removed was not his lethality at distance, but his lethality at close range, which should be actually a weak spot for a sniper. His secondary MP400 is not even that weak <sadly revolvers are not my thing even though I like them, but I guess they are for people with aim… about this I dunno> - so he actually has to use his secondary rather than jump around and use sniper rifle. Because that is an issue, not jumping over a fence. That a sniper can successfully shoot at people at close range with their sniper rifles, where any medic or lower hp characters will die in most cases.

I don’t know, I’ve seen videos as I tend to just watch stuff on yt and lately I am watching both old and new videos from Dirty Bomb - and the thing I am looking at is not how he was. But how he is. He’s not bad, he’s viable, he’s for people with aim and I see people playing him successfully. I don’t like this kind of phrasing, but sadly as someone said about other game I played - most people who does not complain about changes are having fun in game, and don’t even know about most of what is going on. And they’re happy. Unlike me… :sniff: :'c

:takes a sip from a can of worms: Mm, warm. I like Phantom, just his meele is hard to place successfully with everyone jumping around and he’s easy to be heard :'c

—edit—
As I did not see Merciles post.
I don’t hate snipers - I simply do not see them as being useless or worse than other characters, even without jumping - they are different. But it would seem I am “kissing some arses” so I will only say… lick arses erryday! Ok, joke. Bad one. Bad me. Either way only thing I hear is the same thing, so I am simply not persuaded that Vasili is somewhat bad - I still see him successful, even in a game with high levels there was a good Vasili and I was bothered by him very much - but at least I had a slight chance once when I got behind him… sadly he was good with secondary too, so I died. But he was doing what he he had to do: snipe everything that was moving and was not on his team, and he did it very nicely. If anyone wish to persuade me about this - go ahead. I simply cannot see how bad is Vasili now, because if he was nerfed so hard as people claim - then he was probably an OP character with aimbot as a passive skill, 300hp, best rifles as secondary and dunno what else ^^ That’s how people describe him to be before this “hard nerf”[/quote]

No offence mate, but you really don’t seem to have enough experience to make informed decisions on these matters.
If you think that jumpsniping is only for close-range, you’re wrong.
If you think that Vassili is still viable just because you’ve seen videos of people pub-stomping with him, then that’s stupid, because you can pub stomp with ANY merc - what matters is his viability in competitive play.
If you think that what we’re complaining about is that the removal of jump-sniping has made Vassili completely useless, you’re wrong. Jump sniping was challenging, skillful and FUN, for both players and spectators. The real problems are that A) the skill curve of Vassili has been shortened, making playing him much less fun for higher skilled players and for spectators and B) that the nerf was given through simple RNG rather than any other kinds of available nerf strategies (check the original posts for a link to my other discussion in which I posted ideas for non-RNG alternative nerfs to jump sniping).