Devs ignoring the community on some issues (specifically jump-sniping nerfs)

(pinkOrchid) #141

I hate it when posters claim they represent the community, I like the nerf and welcome it.

(Sinee) #142

Judging from your forum rep, people find you either hilarious or flat out disagree with you on this issue. It’s obvious a majority of people who use this forum disagree with this change. What the entire DB community wants, we don’t know. But from Reddit and here, very few like it and found it unnecessary.

It was a silly change that handicaps an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him. Granted, what makes Vassili so rewarding is overcoming the obstacles of difficulty. Vassili is a very unforgiving merc when it comes to getting good with him. But on top of all that, he didn’t need his legs cut off too. His survivability is so bad now. It’s horrid.

(ProfPlump) #143

You realise that when I posted I specifically said that the majority of the community (at least on these forums) agrees with me, and linked a couple of polls on the matter - both of which showed that the large majority are against the removal of jump-sniping?

I think that, if the vast majority of the community agrees with me (and clearly they do, given that my post got 22 Agrees and only 4 Disagrees - not even counting the Insightful/Likes) then it’s fair to say that my view is shared by the community.

(Jesus) #144

When someone says the majority it doesnt mean everyone, you might not be in this majority. It just means that judging from the tools we have, polls and reaction vote, there is a majority of people says this. You can say whatever you want you still dont get to play the butthurt saying we speak like if we were everyone because YOU are not agreeing. We read figures and figures says we are majority to think that.

(opicr0n) #145

Why is it that people are complaining more than playing the actual game? I see complaints about: sparks changes, sniper jump, humble bundle, every patch, every change… People are so entitled these days for an f2p game.

Get over it, try to enjoy the game with the changes which occur. If not, leave the game, find joy in another game instead of the constant bickering ;).

/now lets hold hands and sing a song

(ProfPlump) #146

[quote=“Opicron;151168”]Why is it that people are complaining more than playing the actual game? I see complaints about: sparks changes, sniper jump, humble bundle, every patch, every change… People are so entitled these days for an f2p game.

Get over it, try to enjoy the game with the changes which occur. If not, leave the game, find joy in another game instead of the constant bickering ;).

/now lets hold hands and sing a song[/quote]

The forums are here so that we can give feedback so that we can all enjoy a better game (which also means that the developers will get more players and therefore more money).

And I probably will leave the game if they keep removing the best parts of their game.

I’m not seeing myself as “entitled” for this f2p game… I’m just trying to show the developers what they’re doing right and what they’re doing wrong, so that the game improves. Do you see me demanding money back from my microtransactions? Do you see me suing Splash Damage? Of course not - THAT would be the actions of an entitled player.

(Sinee) #147

[quote=“Opicron;151168”]Why is it that people are complaining more than playing the actual game? I see complaints about: sparks changes, sniper jump, humble bundle, every patch, every change… People are so entitled these days for an f2p game.

Get over it, try to enjoy the game with the changes which occur. If not, leave the game, find joy in another game instead of the constant bickering ;).

/now lets hold hands and sing a song[/quote]

I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars in Dirty Bomb, in support of DB and it’s development. I’m entitled to be entitled and have my views.

(ImSploosh) #148

[quote=“Opicron;151168”]Why is it that people are complaining more than playing the actual game? I see complaints about: sparks changes, sniper jump, humble bundle, every patch, every change… People are so entitled these days for an f2p game.

Get over it, try to enjoy the game with the changes which occur. If not, leave the game, find joy in another game instead of the constant bickering ;).

/now lets hold hands and sing a song[/quote]

People complain because this is the best F2P FPS out there right now and I’m sure I’m not the only one that doesn’t want that to change. If I leave this game, there are no other games for me to go to.

Sure, I could buy a FPS like CS:GO, but there’s very few out there with a playerbase + good gameplay. Dirty Bomb is unique in so many ways and provides addicting gameplay. F2P FPS games are the way to go for a lot of people because they offer consistent updates every month or so.

The games never get old until a company ruins them- and THAT is the sad truth. The companies behind the games or the companies that purchase the games are the ones that end up ruining them. They either get greedy, destroy balancing, pay-to-win is added, remove essential parts of the game, ignore the community, provide bad content, or just downright abandon the game! Community feedback is essential and when a company ignores it, that’s when you see their game going into a downward spiral a lot of the time.

An example of a company ruining a game is Aeria Games killing AVA 2-3 years ago. Sure, the preceding company, IJJI, wasn’t the greatest, and toward the end there was a lack of content, but they kept the game alive and people enjoyed it. Aeria Games eventually took over and not only made it 100% pay-to-win, but they removed stuff people enjoyed, nerfed stuff that shouldn’t be nerfed, buffed stuff that shouldn’t be buffed, etc. What they did wrong was ignore their playerbase and only listened to the rich BRs forking out thousands on the game every week.

But hey, that’s just my take on it anyways. Really just a tangent to this thread, sorry! :smiley:

(blonk) #149

He’s got some of the most powerful weapons in the whole game for people who can use base FPS skills

(23OO23) #150

So munch hate… I shall join!

#1 Sparks was not nerfed, she was simply put where she belongs - mid range. Because honestly, snipe revive with charged revive gun - full hp revive? I play Aura mainly because I don’t like this tactic, it seems cheap and the reason I never touch “pro” gaming in games even though I spend a lot of time playing games is because there is always “best” tactic - and Sparks was strong, too strong both in damage output and the amount of hp with revive. Aura, Sawbonez and Phoenix have to get close to the target to revive someone and even then in most cases they can’t just charge defibrillator too much because either they die or teammate.

Probably no one thinks about that - I’ve seen Sparks, both in game and on videos, running around with 470 speed which is a lot, sniping everyone and occasionally reviving people - is this a medic? Also hp recovered with revive is not that much less, there is still invulnerability involved which paired with the amount of health she could recover from the distance WHILE dealing a lot of damage was not ok. By any means. I liked her, but she was too good for me, so I swapped to Aura because I prefer to get more personal with my patients.

#2 In my opinion, shooting while jumping shouldn’t be a thing that is used in all situations. If anything - while midair it should be viable, but the problem should occur when You hit the ground - because there is no real penalty, even now more skilled people manage to jump shoot. Also games where skill is more important than anything else are less succesful - even CoD or other fps games have weapons that people who are bad at aiming can shoot, be it grenade launchers or something else - there were some games that were made that at some point bad players had to leave because they had No chances.

A perfect example would be Gunz the Duel - it was nice, and all - and then some derped style came out which involved fast swapping between meele sword and a shotgun <for less than a second to shoot and then swap back to meele - in other words people who did not use macro simply had to stop playing because this tactic was simply too good - and this is a perfect example of “not everyone will get used to this and that” - like making shooting while jumping off the wall less favorable to people with aimbots up their arses a game changing thing>. Some people will say it’s not related - this is about people who do not want to “get used” to something - and this change made gameplay different but it’s still an fps shooter, and people who has worse aim would like to play too. Giddygud is not an answer, it’s an answer for pro gaming where people try to find the best tactic to use as a team, not just have the best shooter who can simply jump out out of nowhere and shoot 2 people while still in midair without any penalties. It’s a hit for them, but to say it instantly make this not viable is exaggeration.

#3 TL;DR It’s still beta, meaning things will change, and people should keep suggestions and opinions as much polite as they can - because the way OP wrote everything, and sadly as some posts went <which is a thing for most debates, but whelp> - it’s like he’s attacking devs, not explaining his point. I’ve seen games where devs did not even respond outside some showcases or streams, did not even play games as games but more to test things specifically - devs here actually read this, respond and they play this game - so there is no need to say devs screwed this or that, because that’s their thing what they do in bedroom, not ours. Experience with game differ, some people can have 50 lvl <which is roughly 1k hours I presume> and still play like those on 10-20 lvl, the only difference being the fact that most of them like to say stuff like “omg this team”, “gg this medic” or other “kind” words to describe people who maybe don’t have as much experience as them, but still understand the game and it’s mechanics better .

… Now I wait for Hate to fill me humble self. Hue hue hue

(Jesus) #151

[quote=“Sploosh;151181”][quote=“Opicron;151168”]Why is it that people are complaining more than playing the actual game? I see complaints about: sparks changes, sniper jump, humble bundle, every patch, every change… People are so entitled these days for an f2p game.

Get over it, try to enjoy the game with the changes which occur. If not, leave the game, find joy in another game instead of the constant bickering ;).

/now lets hold hands and sing a song[/quote]

People complain because this is the best F2P FPS out there right now and I’m sure I’m not the only one that doesn’t want that to change. If I leave this game, there are no other games for me to go to.

Sure, I could buy a FPS like CS:GO, but there’s very few out there with a playerbase + good gameplay. Dirty Bomb is unique in so many ways and provides addicting gameplay. F2P FPS games are the way to go for a lot of people because they offer consistent updates every month or so.

The games never get old until a company ruins them- and THAT is the sad truth. The companies behind the games or the companies that purchase the games are the ones that end up ruining them. They either get greedy, destroy balancing, pay-to-win is added, remove essential parts of the game, ignore the community, provide bad content, or just downright abandon the game! Community feedback is essential and when a company ignores it, that’s when you see their game going into a downward spiral a lot of the time.

An example of a company ruining a game is Aeria Games killing AVA 2-3 years ago. Sure, the preceding company, IJJI, wasn’t the greatest, and toward the end there was a lack of content, but they kept the game alive and people enjoyed it. Aeria Games eventually took over and not only made it 100% pay-to-win, but they removed stuff people enjoyed, nerfed stuff that shouldn’t be nerfed, buffed stuff that shouldn’t be buffed, etc. What they did wrong was ignore their playerbase and only listened to the rich BRs forking out thousands on the game every week.

But hey, that’s just my take on it anyways. Really just a tangent to this thread, sorry! :D[/quote]

I think Payday 2 is a more recent exemple, the game was awesome for a while and the dev promised to not add p2w micrptransaction, but they did anyway and got out a hundred of DLC denaturing the game, and making it RNG pay 2 win and its now one of the game with the worst reviews i know on steam, you see a lot of people with 3k hour of gameplay in the game saying its the worst game ever.

[quote=“friendlyWall;151196”]

#1 Sparks was not nerfed, she was simply put where she belongs - mid range. [/quote]
Your reasoning validity ends here, because she doesnt belong to mid range she was made as a long range character not a mid range character. They wanted to nerf her ? fine nerf the close range. But saying she is where she belongs is objectively a false statement. And if you really wanna speak about Aura… The super fast medic who get to have a shotgun which has twice the fire power of the REVIVR at close range and who is way less skill demanding. Oh lets not forget the strongest smg the blishlok oh and the super Health Station who transforms any player knowing how to dodge a few bullet in a rhino with the resistance they get from that.

Well firstly you should be able to jump like a spider monkey if you want because thats precisely how the game was advertised being an old school shooter and not one of those modern pseudo realistic shit.
Secondly you are basically saying its normal to remove key mechanics of the game and to dumb down the game for some players who (even though the game was advertised as jumpy and hard to master)knew what they where entering in and still complained when they failed ?

Its like if i tried to play Chess and i found it too hard for me so I asked for the rule to be changed for everyone. Would you think it is normal ?

(pinkOrchid) #152

Judging from your forum rep, people find you either hilarious or flat out disagree with you on this issue. It’s obvious a majority of people who use this forum disagree with this change. What the entire DB community wants, we don’t know. But from Reddit and here, very few like it and found it unnecessary.

It was a silly change that handicaps an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him. Granted, what makes Vassili so rewarding is overcoming the obstacles of difficulty. Vassili is a very unforgiving merc when it comes to getting good with him. But on top of all that, he didn’t need his legs cut off too. His survivability is so bad now. It’s horrid.[/quote]

How people find me with regards to other posts has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

I was referring to the title which says that the devs are ignoring the community. Yes I have seen the polls and it is not a large majority and this forum is not represenatative of the community as a whole like you said. What bugged me was the title. I am not sure at all that if you reversed this change in say a couple of months that peole would be happy with it. Change (in most games these days, and irl too) usually causes unrest initially. People claim to be uninstalling or stopped playing this and this merc after some nerf yet I see them on the forums talking about their exploits.

(opicr0n) #153

No you are not entitled because you spend hundreds of dollars. It is an beta, in development game, it may change as the developers see fit.

You are however entitled to have your views. Hope you can see the difference ;).

(opicr0n) #154

The devs can do whatever they bloody please, as its an beta, in development progress. Nothing is advertised as being written in stone. For commandments written in stone, join an religion [oh wait] ;).

(blonk) #155

nah m8 let’s open 88 threads with polls, get mad and call the devs stupid that’s how progress is made

(ProfPlump) #156

Judging from your forum rep, people find you either hilarious or flat out disagree with you on this issue. It’s obvious a majority of people who use this forum disagree with this change. What the entire DB community wants, we don’t know. But from Reddit and here, very few like it and found it unnecessary.

It was a silly change that handicaps an already weak merc who doesn’t have a lot going for him. Granted, what makes Vassili so rewarding is overcoming the obstacles of difficulty. Vassili is a very unforgiving merc when it comes to getting good with him. But on top of all that, he didn’t need his legs cut off too. His survivability is so bad now. It’s horrid.[/quote]

How people find me with regards to other posts has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

I was referring to the title which says that the devs are ignoring the community. Yes I have seen the polls and it is not a large majority and this forum is not represenatative of the community as a whole like you said. What bugged me was the title. I am not sure at all that if you reversed this change in say a couple of months that peole would be happy with it. Change (in most games these days, and irl too) usually causes unrest initially. People claim to be uninstalling or stopped playing this and this merc after some nerf yet I see them on the forums talking about their exploits. [/quote]

Ok, so since the forum is specifically made for people to voice their concerns, the people who care about the game’s development are the people who populate the forum. Therefore, the forum’s population is a good representation of the population of the long-term DB fans. And anyway, your point about the reliability and extrapolation doesn’t DISPROVE our belief that most of the community is against the jump-sniping removal, it just means you shouldn’t take it as 100% hard evidence - it’s more like 80% reliable or something.

(ProfPlump) #157

nah m8 let’s open 88 threads with polls, get mad and call the devs stupid that’s how progress is made[/quote]

They do often listen to our feedback - it just takes them months to respond to it.

(Amerika) #158

nah m8 let’s open 88 threads with polls, get mad and call the devs stupid that’s how progress is made[/quote]

It seems to work for most games on Reddit.

(23OO23) #159

Well. Actually my reasoning is that medium range is longer than You probably think. Long range, is Vassili, who You will not guess - has a scope. Does revivgun has a scope? I don’t remember, but I think it’s more like a reflex scope which is designed for medium range shooting. I am not trying to be mean, but this is how it looks, and long range is actually across the map <in some cases less, in some cases more>.

Now let’s go to Aura - true, her weapons are nice, but Sparks has some nice weapons and before the “nerf” she could make pew pew with revgun <which from what I heard is supposed to be her main weapon, and she does not have to switch between defibrillator and weapon, which in many cases leads to death> and it still dealt a lot of damage, not once I was one hitted from it without even seeing ghost of Sparks because it was too far away. Now I have played her, and I could simply stand far away and revive people because You can see when someone has low hp - and it was easy to just shoot and have teammate at full hp and when enemy tried to shoot me from the laser trail - he just stood and tried to find me because I was too far away. Healing station is good, is very good, but is stationary - any character with aoe can easily destroy it, worst being Arty I suppose as he can quickly look at the healing effect on the ground and his support skill will probably destroy it - and cd for it is very long tbh - it’s not just whining, it’s true - it can be easily destroyed and it will take some time before it can be set up, in most cases after Your death.

Mayhap. I saw Dirty Bomb for the first time almost two years ago - I don’t remember it being advertised as such, but it’s not like I saw everything. Still I stand with what I said - it’s beta, it’s not finished. No one said they will not implement it again, or even further change to see what happens, which is good if they do it before the final release. Old school shooters were jumpy, but let’s start with the fact that models were different, the way bullets worked was different, the capabilities of PC’s were different, and what was possible to make was also different. It was far easier to hit people in Quake or Unreal than it is now. It was dumb then - run’n’shoot. Here You have teamwork and objectives that are not even capture the flag similar - so the gameplay has to be also made with this in mind.

I will not comment on comparison between board game and video game, but the change You complain about is not as core as You think - people still manage to do that, pretty well sometimes. It means it is not dumbed, it was actually made even harder to achieve, but also harder to exploit because it’s not so easy and will not work every time.

(Jesus) #160

[quote=“friendlyWall;151264”][quote=“Jesus;151211”]
Your reasoning validity ends here, because she doesnt belong to mid range she was made as a long range character not a mid range character. They wanted to nerf her ? fine nerf the close range. But saying she is where she belongs is objectively a false statement. And if you really wanna speak about Aura… The super fast medic who get to have a shotgun which has twice the fire power of the REVIVR at close range and who is way less skill demanding. Oh lets not forget the strongest smg the blishlok oh and the super Health Station who transforms any player knowing how to dodge a few bullet in a rhino with the resistance they get from that.
[/quote]

Well. Actually my reasoning is that medium range is longer than You probably think. Long range, is Vassili, who You will not guess - has a scope. Does revivgun has a scope? I don’t remember, but I think it’s more like a reflex scope which is designed for medium range shooting. I am not trying to be mean, but this is how it looks, and long range is actually across the map <in some cases less, in some cases more>.

Now let’s go to Aura - true, her weapons are nice, but Sparks has some nice weapons and before the “nerf” she could make pew pew with revgun <which from what I heard is supposed to be her main weapon, and she does not have to switch between defibrillator and weapon, which in many cases leads to death> and it still dealt a lot of damage, not once I was one hitted from it without even seeing ghost of Sparks because it was too far away. Now I have played her, and I could simply stand far away and revive people because You can see when someone has low hp - and it was easy to just shoot and have teammate at full hp and when enemy tried to shoot me from the laser trail - he just stood and tried to find me because I was too far away. Healing station is good, is very good, but is stationary - any character with aoe can easily destroy it, worst being Arty I suppose as he can quickly look at the healing effect on the ground and his support skill will probably destroy it - and cd for it is very long tbh - it’s not just whining, it’s true - it can be easily destroyed and it will take some time before it can be set up, in most cases after Your death.

Mayhap. I saw Dirty Bomb for the first time almost two years ago - I don’t remember it being advertised as such, but it’s not like I saw everything. Still I stand with what I said - it’s beta, it’s not finished. No one said they will not implement it again, or even further change to see what happens, which is good if they do it before the final release. Old school shooters were jumpy, but let’s start with the fact that models were different, the way bullets worked was different, the capabilities of PC’s were different, and what was possible to make was also different. It was far easier to hit people in Quake or Unreal than it is now. It was dumb then - run’n’shoot. Here You have teamwork and objectives that are not even capture the flag similar - so the gameplay has to be also made with this in mind.

I will not comment on comparison between board game and video game, but the change You complain about is not as core as You think - people still manage to do that, pretty well sometimes. It means it is not dumbed, it was actually made even harder to achieve, but also harder to exploit because it’s not so easy and will not work every time.
[/quote]

Besides the revivr which is not anymore i dont see what amazing weapon she has, its secondaries that can only be used on emergency situation by shortening her range they made her forced to go closer to people, problem is she has no survivability being that close, most of the time everyone will kill you. And this revivr shoot some and switch to mp technic doesnt really work if you dont have the time to charge your shot so basically anyone jumping on you and you are dead anyone coming from a corner at what ever distance and your dead too. Shooting across the map was what she was able to do, she was long distance.
Mid Range just doesnt work.

Its harder to achieve yes but its difficulty made on luck because RNG and not made on skill.
how can someone thinks that its normal that parts of a gameplay starts being based on luck and not anymore on what you are able to do. When something gets more difficult to do because of the difficulty to execute yes when something gets more difficult because even if you do it perfectly you fail, no. It just dont pass. There was no reason to implement RNG as a gameplay mechanic. Its just bad.

“Im gonna make a game like this”
“Oh now that you paid some money cause you liked the game im gonna change it and make the game like that if you dont like it deal with it”
If thats their line of conduct no wonder brink was a monumental failure because this is just being scumbags to the people who makes your company lives and this is how your company dies.