Devs ignoring the community on some issues (specifically jump-sniping nerfs)

(ProfPlump) #1

Ever since the reduction to ADS accuracy while in mid-air, we have seen forum posts* asking for its removal, many suggesting other forms of nerfs that would not involve stupid RNG factors*, many asking for opinion polls* of which the overwhelming majority asked for jump-sniping to be returned and so on and so forth.

And what does the newest update give us instead? “Oh, now Vassili has +10 health and can replenish his motion sensors faster.”

Splash Damage, when you create something in your game that everyone loves and then remove it, and then refuse to re-implement that aspect into the game, you WILL piss people off - and those people are just going to leave your game and go play Overwatch or something.

Most of the time, the community knows better than you do about what to do with the game. The only time you shouldn’t listen to the community is when they are making suggestions about things that haven’t been tested or balanced (i.e. don’t go implementing every forum Merc suggestion you see).
However, when the community has had over a year to play with a certain game mechanic that has stayed constant throughout the development process, they DO know what they’re talking about, because they have been the guinea pigs and the consumers. It is ridiculous for you to assume you know better than them, since you devs (understandably) have nowhere near the amount of hours in game as the players do, especially the pro players.

So what do I mean when I say that the community knows what it’s talking about on issues of game mechanics that have been constant throughout the games development process? An example would be the MOA/FEL-IX/PDP insta-gib, which was (rightly) complained about as being overpowered, by all manner of players. The devs at the time took heed of their understanding of the game and how the in-game balance works, and removed it. Job done, well done everybody.
Similarly, Sparks’ nerf has been campaigned for for a VERY long time and after all that time you guys did actually nerf her combat abilities. Again, well done everybody.
However, now when that same community complains that you’ve removed something that didn’t need to be removed and was also an aspect of the game that promoted balance, higher skill-curves, and entertainment for players AND spectators (eg. jump sniping), you IGNORE THEM, and THAT is a massive failure on your part.

Don’t ignore your community on matters that they have hundreds of hours of experience with - because not only are they the ones filling your paychecks, but they most likely have more in-game experience than the developers do.

Posts complaining about the mid-air RNG: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/23663/the-decision-to-nerf-movement-and-jumping-while-in-combat-in-the-last-patch-is-really-dissapointing#latest
Posts suggesting other non-RNG nerfs to jump sniping: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/comment/144124#Comment_144124
Opinion polls:
http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/23608/who-wants-to-revert-rng-shots-in-sniper-rifle-jumpshotting-back-to-no-rng/p1
http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/comment/149607#Comment_149607
(Also the Agree/Disagree ratio on this post also provides a form of opinion poll)

(solace_) #2

I agree with everything you say except:

I think they should listen to members of the community on things that have not been tested or balanced. I am not saying they need to implement these ideas, however, they should at least consider them because as you say the devs have no where near the amount of hours as many members of the community.

Therefore, I would say that some members may have creative insight and ideas for the game that the devs may not have been able to think of.

(ProfPlump) #3

[quote=“succinctDeer;148463”]I agree with everything you say except:

I think they should listen to members of the community on things that have not been tested or balanced. I am not saying they need to implement these ideas, however, they should at least consider them because as you say the devs have no where near the amount of hours as many members of the community.

Therefore, I would say that some members may have creative insight and ideas for the game that the devs may not have been able to think of. [/quote]

Oh of course they should be considered. My point is that it’s reasonable to overrule those kinds of judgements because the forum poster is speculating about something that has not been tested and is experimental. However, collective forum complaints from the community about something that is/was in the game for a LONG time and has been tried, tested and experienced by that community should almost never be ignored by the developers. For example, the complaints about Sparks being too strong, Vassili’s insta-gibs being too strong, and the complaints about Vassili’s loss of jump sniping.

(Randomdeath) #4

I agree 100% with this post… When i DO play Vassili, i can NEVER Jump-snipe… But i love playing against other players who CAN, because it means i am playing against skilled players… Also i love the extra challenge of trying to avoid jumpers :smiley:

(N8o) #5

LMAO Where is the LIE?!

(Jesus) #6

This. In these last two update they obliterated two mercs and pretty much the only one i liked to play. I guess ill just wait until March to see how things will go but if Turtle gets out i’ll have no merc to play so ill just probably uninstall and try something else. Im not gonna start playing any of the other mercs that are boring as fuck with all the same playstyle. Phantom is broke Sparks is broke Vassili is broke and all the other merc are boring “strafe crouch shoot” playstyle merc except fletcher but after 250h of jumping around like a spider monkey blowing up people it starts to not be funny anymor. For me this game has become lame, tasteless, there is nothing to it. Im disappointed cause i really liked it tho. But I wont “adapt” and play unfunny shit and eat shit again and again until i like it.

(AnimeDude) #7

I appreciated this game being up to near 100% raw aim, but it’s just a matter of time until we get some garbage like “spray patterns”

(Necabo) #8

Completely agree! You expressed my exact opinion on how splash damage should handle community feedback.

(XavienX) #9

When I saw those patch notes, I like hell f**king no. Are they really trying to compensate the jumpshot nerf by buffing unnecessary things for Vassili that no one asked for and is already fine with his current state being? Seriously SD, just reverse the damn jumpshot nerf back.

(ProfPlump) #10

[quote=“N8o;148490”][quote=“ProfPlump;24067”]
Splash Damage, when you create something in your game that everyone loves and then remove it, and then refuse to re-implement that aspect into the game, you WILL piss people off - and those people are just going to leave your game and go play Overwatch or something.

[/quote]

LMAO Where is the LIE?!
[/quote]

…What?

(Feley) #11

I think Vassili shouldn’t be able to jump out of nowhere, shot you, before you even have enough time to hit him and make at least 40 dmg to him. (Also I am a Vassili player)

Anyways, when Vassili is jumping, you don’t know where he will show up to shot you or you won’t even notice that jump. Why would Vassili than have advantage of knowing where his shot will land…

He got affected by MP nerf as well, so I think that hp buff was good buff.

(Jostabeere) #12

Oh boy you’re so full of untruths in OPs post, sorry.
There are many posts about the removal. But also many posts who like this.
And this is not an overwhelming majority in my eyes.
http://puu.sh/n4ZXB/c45431078c.jpg

“Splash Damage, when you create something in your game that everyone loves and then remove it, and then refuse to re-implement that aspect into the game, you WILL piss people off - and those people are just going to leave your game and go play Overwatch or something.”

Oh boy. another untruth. Not everyone, and not even the sheer “majority” liked in in the first place, stop making it out for your advantage.
Sorry, but you’re a biased dick who insults anyone as guinea pigs who doesn’t share your opinion which you think is the right one because you’re a “customer” and acts like there is only one part who dislikes the said nerf, while completely closing out the part that likes it.

(LifeupOmega) #13

I’m 50/50 on it. Smooth has a point but at the same time Vas desperately needs something, or Redeye needs less, to balance the two of them out.

Also Sparks wasn’t destroyed, still perfectly viable. Dunno where people are getting that from, god forbid your low risk high reward merc is brought back in line.

(Jesus) #14

[quote=“Jostabeere;148519”]Oh boy you’re so full of untruths in OPs post, sorry.
There are many posts about the removal. But also many posts who like this.
And this is not an overwhelming majority in my eyes.
http://puu.sh/n4ZXB/c45431078c.jpg

“Splash Damage, when you create something in your game that everyone loves and then remove it, and then refuse to re-implement that aspect into the game, you WILL piss people off - and those people are just going to leave your game and go play Overwatch or something.”

Oh boy. another untruth. Not everyone, and not even the sheer “majority” liked in in the first place, stop making it out for your advantage.
Sorry, but you’re a biased scum who insults anyone as guinea pigs who doesn’t share your opinion which you think is the right one because you’re a “customer” and acts like there is only one part who dislikes the said nerf, while completely closing out the part that likes it.[/quote]
You dont share is opinion
“You’re a biased scum… who insults anyone who doesnt share your opinion.”
See the irony here ? you are the only one insulting people.

And i will use the superb poll you have put in your comment too, 56% doesnt look like majority to you? You should take a look at your maths lessons from time to time cause it looks like you dont know how percentage works.
You are the one full of bs who came in the discussion insulting people because YOU dont share this opinion that the MAJORITY agree on. Just because you dont want Vassilis to pop your head when you play Rhino.

“while completely closing out the part that likes it.”
He never did that learn to fuck*ng read, he posted the fucking poll showing there is SOME people who dont like it which you are obviously part of. But there is still a majority who dont like it.

(Jostabeere) #15

He did not say a single word about the part who like the change as they don’t exist.
Also, don’t abuse the Flag button, please, because you’re mad at someones opinion.

(Jesus) #16

He linked the very same poll you that you put in your comment.
I did not abused the Flag button you come here saying people are scum justifying yourself by saying they somehow insulted you while you are the first one who threw an insult in this thread, no one was hostile here and you started to insult people out of nowhere you deserves the Flag

(DMaster2) #17

[quote=“ProfPlump;24067”]Ever since the reduction to ADS accuracy while in mid-air, we have seen forum posts* asking for its removal, many suggesting other forms of nerfs that would not involve stupid RNG factors*, many asking for opinion polls* of which the overwhelming majority asked for jump-sniping to be returned and so on and so forth.

And what does the newest update give us instead? “Oh, now Vassili has +10 health and can replenish his motion sensors faster.”

Splash Damage, when you create something in your game that everyone loves and then remove it, and then refuse to re-implement that aspect into the game, you WILL piss people off - and those people are just going to leave your game and go play Overwatch or something.

Most of the time, the community knows better than you do about what to do with the game. The only time you shouldn’t listen to the community is when they are making suggestions about things that haven’t been tested or balanced (i.e. don’t go implementing every forum Merc suggestion you see).
However, when the community has had over a year to play with a certain game mechanic that has stayed constant throughout the development process, they DO know what they’re talking about, because they have been the guinea pigs and the consumers. It is ridiculous for you to assume you know better than them, since you devs (understandably) have nowhere near the amount of hours in game as the players do, especially the pro players.

So what do I mean when I say that the community knows what it’s talking about on issues of game mechanics that have been constant throughout the games development process? An example would be the MOA/FEL-IX/PDP insta-gib, which was (rightly) complained about as being overpowered, by all manner of players. The devs at the time took heed of their understanding of the game and how the in-game balance works, and removed it. Job done, well done everybody.
Similarly, Sparks’ nerf has been campaigned for for a VERY long time and after all that time you guys did actually nerf her combat abilities. Again, well done everybody.
However, now when that same community complains that you’ve removed something that didn’t need to be removed and was also an aspect of the game that promoted balance, higher skill-curves, and entertainment for players AND spectators (eg. jump sniping), you IGNORE THEM, and THAT is a massive failure on your part.

Don’t ignore your community on matters that they have hundreds of hours of experience with - because not only are they the ones filling your paychecks, but they most likely have more in-game experience than the developers do.

Posts complaining about the mid-air RNG: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/23663/the-decision-to-nerf-movement-and-jumping-while-in-combat-in-the-last-patch-is-really-dissapointing#latest
Posts suggesting other non-RNG nerfs to jump sniping: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/comment/144124#Comment_144124
Opinion poll: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/23608/who-wants-to-revert-rng-shots-in-sniper-rifle-jumpshotting-back-to-no-rng/p1[/quote]
100% agree.
I’ve literally touched the game a couple of times since last month update, where they destroyed sparks and vassili (my two favourite mercs). I have no motivation to play atm

(Jesus) #18

@DMaster2 Same, Same, Same I have no mercs to play right now.

(onLooSe) #19

Oh man… the amounts of RAGE… All the times when decent/good enemy Vassili was jumpshooting behind cover! His head popping for like 0.2 seconds and you are with fully automatic weapon like an SMG or LMG. Chances to take him out without using special ability (airstrike/fragnade… throw your medpack at him :smiley: etc.) just for him were pretty slim and a lot of the times it didn’t even worked. If you stand and wait for his head to pop out again most of the times gets you killed. It was like playing the worst possible version of Whack-a-mole :stuck_out_tongue:

It was pretty huge problem to deal with and most guys just tried to get the hell out of his line of sight or just die on the spot. I even one time threw my mouse off the desk, probably in hopes to kill the guy… who knows :slight_smile:
This is the only situation I find jumping and shooting to bother me so I don’t want to take any sides here, but have in mind - when you can’t retaliate to something things are most likely out of control.

I can still feel the tons of salt in my mouth.

(PeneTraitor) #20

Lol 2 mercs who excelled at range getting their ranged play toned down and you are gonna quit? How about you get out from your safe little hidey hole and join the fight. Jump sniping is dumb. Yeah it requires skill to pull off somewhat, but it is completely out of line with how you should play the game. It removes the risk from the risk/reward of playing a sniper. Good snipers can still snipe, just not from almost 100% safety of a wall they only need to come out from for a fraction of a second.
Sparks did need to be toned down a little, but maybe they overnerfed. Time will tell, and less than 24 hours of sample data is not enough to definitively say. Maybe play a little more and adjust to the new changes before laying out blanket statements.
Also, don’t say “everyone” thinks something because that is patently untrue. As is assuming that the forum goers represent the vast majority of the player base. Most players, even avid ones have probably never set foot in the forums. Games change after patches. If you want a game that will never change, you are going to be disappointed.