I’m not the least bit interested in Overwatch, its too whacky and totally not my cup of tea.
Blizzard has not made a game I’ve liked since Diablo 2… and yes I own many of them and play them.
Well… except starcraft 2, but I still like SC Brood War better…
http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/141/3c2b7a90-e6f1-0132-4660-0ebc4eccb42f.gif?
[/quote]
Did you even tried it ?
HOTS is beginner friendly for someone starting MOBA unlike DOTA and the community is far from being as toxic as on LoL ive tried all of those and for someone who never played a game of that kind HOTS is ideal to start, its simple and allows to learn the very basics of MOBA games. Sure for someone who played something else on a higher level it lacks in complexity but not everyone want to torture his mind throughout all the match knowing which items to buy or such especially when they just start this kind of game.
“Im one person” there is plenty of people disatisfied by all of these nerf, not that they have been justified or not but on the point they were wrong in the way they nerfed the character.
They handled the situation poorly once again. She is not useless as a medic will never be.
But she was supposed to be a long range merc and all the range aspect has been trashed.
Now as soon as the ennemies take a bit of distance they can still inflict to her damage which for her hp will terrible and she wont be able to answer she is a victim to bully. Who nows will revive only people in a 10m radius because when she revive at further distance the allies will just get killed again. Way to go for a long range merc. The problem is not about making her useless at all, its denaturing the gameplay of a character who was supposed to be for long range by making her weak on this very same point. She shouldnt be able to take the advantage on assault merc on close range more than on long range.
We are not going to restart the discussion of the possible change that could/should have been made instead of this pure bs as there is already some other thread for that. But im far from being the only one thinking all of this was poorly handled and like everyone in everyday life when we do things poorly especially our jobs, we get shit on.
Maybe if instead of keeping everything for them like a damn secret they would tell people we are gonna nerf Sparks give us proposition to see what kind of direction we should take then it would work better. Im not saying they have to choose one thing one person said but at least asking the people who plays the damn game what they think should be done, because their weird graph that they get out of the blue doesnt look very accurate and its only fucking numbers on paper, the player who test the game everyday are probably better placed to say how a change feels like.
The nerf to phantom was just necessary there was no need of a community to see that the guy was a beyblade killing everyone but they overnerfed Phantom him and now we see the result and handled thing like shit, and even though plenty of good propositions has been made since and the character still never changed. i think that when a character is released since that much time and he is totally not viable it should be a prime priority to make it playable for his role. But apparently not.
Wouldn’t re-balancing everyone eventually put Phantom at equal level?
Phantom was perhaps too good when they released him, and they hit him hard yes, but he is still far from useless.
Sparks is also far from useless, and she still does fine at range. A fully charged head shot can still do significant damage, and still kill people pretty reliably… its just now you aren’t going to be sniping them from across the map, the range has been shortened but its still great everywhere from short to mid~long range.
Her med packs heal her instantly unlike sawbonez, and you aren’t meant to tank enemies from range anyway, that’s why you have a revivr, so you can stay around the corner and help your team while they do the tanking.
This really isn’t a Sparks debate though… this shit has been discussed to death already.
The problem is that people shit all over the devs because of every little change, good or not.
Often people don’t even test out the changes out before complaining, and don’t tell me this isn’t true, because people rage about everything as soon as they see it in the stream, or as soon as they see the patch notes without even testing it.
While I don’t like every change they make, the game wouldn’t be as good as it is without experimentation. They try to balance things in a way that makes sense to them, even if it doesn’t make sense to you, and they shouldn’t be attacked the way they are.
I’m sure if you made a game, you’d get it perfect, right?
I don’t understand why people are comparing Dirty Bomb to Overwatch right now. Those games have nothing in common except for the different personalities of characters with their own seperate skills.
Objectives in Overwatch are from what I’ve seen just copy paste objectives from TF2. Payload, capture points on the map and king of the hill. Not really impressed by that.
I honestly don’t see as much teamplay possibilities in Overwatch as I see in Dirty Bomb. This is mainly to the objectives that the game offers. People are calling Overwatch a game about teamplay. And in some extent that’s true but the game modes are not that team oriented. I heard stories of teams consisting out of the same character and they face stomped the other team. That doesn’t sound like good balancing either imo.
I know a lot of people are disappointed with the jumpshotting and I can understand that. But you have to realize that if you want to balance a game, you will have to make changes. It’s still possible that there will be a new update where they revert the change or they briing something else in to balance it out. Balancing a game like Dirty Bomb is almost impossible because of the huge variety of characters and the objective mode with it’s different stages.
Just remember Splash Damage is a pretty small team (75 employees) compared to other developers. (If you want to compare it for instance to Blizzard with 4700 employees). Updates take time. Big updates are a lot of work for just 75 people. Try to be a bit patient. 
Giving feedback is necessary but insults towards devs will never have a positive effect. Trust me I remember the sh*tstorm on the Far Cry 4 forum when the MP community heard about the fact that ther wouldn’t be MP editor in the game. A lot of insults were directed towards the devs and did that help? Absolutely not. Just try to give feedback without using swearwords because those posts will automatically be ignored by the devs (trust me on that one as well).
[quote=“Jostabeere;149357”][quote=“Jesus;149275”]
“Im one person” there is plenty of people disatisfied by all of these nerf, not that they have been justified or not but on the point they were wrong in the way they nerfed the character.
[/quote]
Does this give you any rights to say you’re more than one person?
[/quote]
What Im saying is you cant deny what im saying for the reason that i am one person only just because im the only one speaking at this moment while plenty of people agreed with that already.
But jumpshotting on sniper wasnt unbalanced there wasnt a lot of vassili players doing it it was a little trick some of them were able to pull off to surprise the ennmy there was no reason, no balancing reason to do this. It was something requiring skill. And now we get RNG instead of skill in the game.
[quote=“SnakekillerX;149318”]Wouldn’t re-balancing everyone eventually put Phantom at equal level?
Phantom was perhaps too good when they released him, and they hit him hard yes, but he is still far from useless.
[/quote]
But if you start nerfing every merc’s special style to put them on the level of another in the end there will be nerf on nerf until the game becomes slow and bland, Im sure Fletcher player are gonna take the nerf hammer in the balls too sooner or later, nerfing everyone just makes the game less interesting now vassili is all about peeking on corner while strafing. How is that entertaining to play ? If they nerf jumpthrow and stickies on fletcher and you find yourself with a fletcher having to just peek in corner throw a sticky and hide again that wont be as entertaining either. And on the long run the game is just going to slow down add DB wont really be that fast paced game advertised anymore.
I think people just have different visions of what Sparks was supposed to be. Which for me was a long range merc not a mid/close range one. Every devs gets shit thats almost part of the job, and i dont think they really care if they dont even read the forum from time to time
That’s your opinion about it, there are others who think it is unbalanced. I saw a good suggestion from someone. Nerf the jumpshot a bit by a certain accuracy penalty. If you shoot at the head it would hit the body for instance.
Can’t remember who said it but I think that would be a good idea. Jumpshotting would still be viable to some extent then.
[quote=“tominatorx;149510”][quote=“Jesus;149403”]
But jumpshotting on sniper wasnt unbalanced there wasnt a lot of vassili players doing it it was a little trick some of them were able to pull off to surprise the ennmy there was no reason, no balancing reason to do this. It was something requiring skill. And now we get RNG instead of skill in the game.
[/quote]
That’s your opinion about it, there are others who think it is unbalanced. I saw a good suggestion from someone. Nerf the jumpshot a bit by a certain accuracy penalty. If you shoot at the head it would hit the body for instance.
Can’t remember who said it but I think that would be a good idea. Jumpshotting would still be viable to some extent then.
[/quote]
You mean simply desactivating headshot because if you put penalty accuracy sometimes the bullet could go on the side or above the head and as it is now it wouldnt be fair when you are able to shoot someone while jumping while scoping it should be rewarded thi for any merc actually. Personally i think the RNG needs to stay for hipfire but when you ads the bullet should go where you aim and this with every merc. I mean when the merc ADS its to aim some where it makes no sense that bullets go everywhere agaisnt law of physics
All I want is Nader nades to be more usefull again. I don’t understand why i need to go sniper mode with them. Hell I’ve launched them into containers hit the person disarming or literally barely touching and they received no damage . Now there only usefull to take out ev enless I direct hit them in the head it seems
Like
Nader and Phoenix are the only 2 main mercs I use with the exception of proxy when I don’t need specific mercs for a mission. Well till aimee out then I’ll reevaluate who gets dropped from my main mercs
That’s a bug. It’s happened to me while I was defusing. I should have been blown up but received no damage. Don’t confuse bugs with balance.
[quote=“blonk;149178”][quote=“Merciless;149140”]
Well good for you on moving on when things didn’t go the way you wanted them to go my man. Although I think I have every right to complain if I want to. I mean I spent money on this game… If there’s something I don’t like about it I’ll express my displeasure towards it.
But to each their own. Some people like to take it up the ass and say nothing. I just like to express my displeasure and so does alot of people on these forums. So if you don’t like it…
snip
[/quote]
You go right ahead, I’m not saying you shouldn’t complain, but the OP is making out that because Splash Damage aren’t listening to the 3-4 threads that have been made on this matter (which is excessive in itself, again, it’s not that big a deal) that they are refusing to listen to the community and that the community (the forums specifically) know better than the devs, and people should quit the game. That’s what I take issue with here. You should certainly use the mechanisms Splash Damage have given us to complain, I mean that’s what they are for, but people stamping their feet and saying they’re going to Overwatch over this? A tiny change to one of what, 18 mercs? Can’t you see how ridiculous that is? [/quote]
Well the thing is we have no fuckin’ idea what they’re basing themselves on. Up to now we know they base themselves on one thing, those shitty stats that do not mean a thing. They also need to base themselves on feedback. Not anybody’s feedback of course but professional players’ feedback which they do not do. I’ve played Vassili enough to know that he’s not completely broken at this very moment but he is in fact crippled. He needs a little something to help his survivability. Something +10 hp, blurring the scope when jumping and lowering the cooldown of the heartbeat sensor for 3-4 seconds will not accomplish. I HIGHLY doubt… that players who know what they’re talking about asked for those buffs. Which is why I’m saying they are not listening to anyone besides themselves. It has come to a point where it looks like the community loves this game more than the developers do.
Yes! It’s their game. They can do whatever they want with it. If it’s pissing off the community, they’re doing one hell of a job at it. The thing is I really like this game. I enjoy it very much and it pisses me off to see what they’re doing with it. It is in fact a BETA and if it was true that the players did not know better than the devs then why the fuck would they let people play the game if they already have their minds made up as to what the future of Dirty Bomb will be in the first place? They’re the ones that ask us for feedback like any other good devs of a game that wants to succeed would do. We’re giving it… they’re not listening. Whether it’s feedbacks on these forums or anywhere else… they are not listening. They claim to be listening obviously because of course they won’t come out and say they aren’t. They’re not stupid enough to do that. Anyway I don’t think so…
No, they’re not good enough to test mercs and balance the game themselves which is where those who are good at the game come in. That’s the point. They concentrate on working on the game and the players give them the information they need in order to make the game better. It’s not like it’s anything new, it’s been around for a while now. At the end of the day, yes, it is their game and they have the final say. But if you want your game to succeed then listen to your community. If you’re not gonna listen to what they have to say then don’t come out and say you’re listening to what they’re saying because the only thing you’re doing is waste everybody’s fuckin’ time. If you don’t wanna listen to what they have to say then they’re just gonna move on to bigger and better things. Plain and simple.
[quote=“Merciless;149616”][quote=“blonk;149178”][quote=“Merciless;149140”]
Well good for you on moving on when things didn’t go the way you wanted them to go my man. Although I think I have every right to complain if I want to. I mean I spent money on this game… If there’s something I don’t like about it I’ll express my displeasure towards it.
But to each their own. Some people like to take it up the ass and say nothing. I just like to express my displeasure and so does alot of people on these forums. So if you don’t like it…
snip
[/quote]
You go right ahead, I’m not saying you shouldn’t complain, but the OP is making out that because Splash Damage aren’t listening to the 3-4 threads that have been made on this matter (which is excessive in itself, again, it’s not that big a deal) that they are refusing to listen to the community and that the community (the forums specifically) know better than the devs, and people should quit the game. That’s what I take issue with here. You should certainly use the mechanisms Splash Damage have given us to complain, I mean that’s what they are for, but people stamping their feet and saying they’re going to Overwatch over this? A tiny change to one of what, 18 mercs? Can’t you see how ridiculous that is? [/quote]
Well the thing is we have no fuckin’ idea what they’re basing themselves on. Up to now we know they base themselves on one thing, those shitty stats that do not mean a thing. They also need to base themselves on feedback. Not anybody’s feedback of course but professional players’ feedback which they do not do. I’ve played Vassili enough to know that he’s not completely broken at this very moment but he is in fact crippled. He needs a little something to help his survivability. Something +10 hp, blurring the scope when jumping and lowering the cooldown of the heartbeat sensor for 3-4 seconds will not accomplish. I HIGHLY doubt… that players who know what they’re talking about asked for those buffs. Which is why I’m saying they are not listening to anyone besides themselves. It has come to a point where it looks like the community loves this game more than the developers do.
Yes! It’s their game. They can do whatever they want with it. If it’s pissing off the community, they’re doing one hell of a job at it. The thing is I really like this game. I enjoy it very much and it pisses me off to see what they’re doing with it. It is in fact a BETA and if it was true that the players did not know better than the devs then why the fuck would they let people play the game if they already have their minds made up as to what the future of Dirty Bomb will be in the first place? They’re the ones that ask us for feedback like any other good devs of a game that wants to succeed would do. We’re giving it… they’re not listening. Whether it’s feedbacks on these forums or anywhere else… they are not listening. They claim to be listening obviously because of course they won’t come out and say they aren’t. They’re not stupid enough to do that. Anyway I don’t think so…
No, they’re not good enough to test mercs and balance the game themselves which is where those who are good at the game come in. That’s the point. They concentrate on working on the game and the players give them the information they need in order to make the game better. It’s not like it’s anything new, it’s been around for a while now. At the end of the day, yes, it is their game and they have the final say. But if you want your game to succeed then listen to your community. If you’re not gonna listen to what they have to say then don’t come out and say you’re listening to what they’re saying because the only thing you’re doing is waste everybody’s fuckin’ time. If you don’t wanna listen to what they have to say then they’re just gonna move on to bigger and better things. Plain and simple.[/quote]
To be fair, Vassili is still playable and isn’t broken - jump sniping wasn’t necessary for every single shot you take while playing Vassili. Before the patch, the only reason I would jump snipe would be A) because I was caught out in the open and I wanted to make myself a harder target while shooting back or B) because I was jumping over the lip of a wall and surprising my opponent(s) or C) so that I could get a higher vantage point so that I could shoot and gib the body of an already downed opponent.
This loss of jump sniping has by no means made Vassili completely useless, but it has taken away a huge amount of his skill curve, it has taken away one of the most entertaining aspects of his playstyle, and it has replaced skilled play with blind luck when trying to jump snipe - which in my opinion is MORE frustrating, for both the person doing the jump snipe and the person being shot by them. Let me explain:
When I used to get killed by a jump snipe, I’d go “oh wow, nice shot - didn’t see that coming”.
But NOW when I get killed by a jump snipe, I go “oh fuck off that son of a bitch got lucky - I didn’t deserve to die there”.
It’s MORE frustrating now than it was before.
[quote=“ProfPlump;24067”]Most of the time, the community knows better than you do about what to do with the game. The only time you shouldn’t listen to the community is when they are making suggestions about things that haven’t been tested or balanced (i.e. don’t go implementing every forum Merc suggestion you see).
However, when the community has had over a year to play with a certain game mechanic that has stayed constant throughout the development process, they DO know what they’re talking about, because they have been the guinea pigs and the consumers. It is ridiculous for you to assume you know better than them, since you devs (understandably) have nowhere near the amount of hours in game as the players do, especially the pro players.
[/quote]
I could not disagree more. Devs have a lot more data to base their decisions on than us. Their nerfs or buffs benefit the overal balance.
Many games failed during production just because the devs listened far too much to their players.
Stay on your own course SD.
Examples ? I don’t see any. And generally here in DB people’s requests about balance are “leave the game as it was”. It’s not too demanding. And far from a gameplay revolution.
In my opinion, I just feel like they’re following the same slippery slope as hi rez created with tribes ascend. They had one of a hell fanboy support during beta (tribes is tribes) but poorly capitalized on it mainly because they were unable to solve massive issues in the game (physics… which is rather depressing for a tribes game, automatic rifles which totally ruined the original gameplay…).
Everyone who had enough experience on former tribes games keep telling them they were going the wrong way. Hi-Rez gave them the big fat finger. 2 months after initial release, they released what was considered totally out of context, way beyond OP and pay to win weapons. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. No matter the pay 2 win issues, the game started to decline from there mainly because of the lack of proper more than needed updates.
I already hear “SD is not Hi-Rez”. I perfectly know that, SD guys are dumb enough to keep working on a game they fcked up themselves, whereas Hi-Rez will develop a new game and whale some new unaware players. Still, the overall consequences are the same.
[quote=“Jesus;149275”]
Did you even tried it ?[/quote]
Don’t play MOBAs personally that’s why I’ll not be playing Overwatch LoL
LoL, get it? It’s a MOBA…nevermind
It’d take one of the following changes to make me consider quitting this game, other than out of boredom or stagnation:
I’m pretty sure just about anything else I could stomach, especially given that the game is in beta, and I’m sure most players can as well. For example, I love my BR-16, I totally expect it to get hammered further with nerfs at some point because, certainly how it feels in hands, it’s a machine of death. If SD do that, fair enough. That’s up to them, and I can see based on my limited pool of experience that it would potentially be justified. Smooth has confirmed in that quoted post that the jumpsniping issue presents a difficult situation to counter, and doesn’t fit with their perspective on balance. So that’s it. The only thing I’d say SD can do to soothe all these sore butts is to post some analytics that justify the change, but they have no obligation to do that.
I wouldn’t worry though, I’m working on Jump-And-Snipe Simulator 2016, it’ll be coming to Steam Greenlight soon, and I’m certain there will be an audience for it! Stay tuned!
Phantom ?
[quote=“blonk;149719”] Smooth has confirmed in that quoted post that the jumpsniping issue presents a difficult situation to counter, and doesn’t fit with their perspective on balance.
[/quote]
Yeah “difficult situation to counter” meanwhile fragger can throw in your face with perfect precision a 2second cooked grenade that you can mostly never dodge. and he doesnt even have to stay out of cover for a long time. This is totally in their perspective of balance huh ?
It shows their perspective is fucked up. They have no obligation to justify themselves but we have no obligation to play their shit too. If they disgust their players they are the loser in the story not the player. I pre bought Overwatch already and if Dirty Bomb stays as it is right now i dont see me coming back after the release of OW honestly.
[quote=“blonk;149719”][quote=“Jesus;149275”]
Did you even tried it ?[/quote]
Don’t play MOBAs personally that’s why I’ll not be playing Overwatch LoL
LoL, get it? It’s a MOBA…nevermind
It’d take one of the following changes to make me consider quitting this game, other than out of boredom or stagnation:
I’m pretty sure just about anything else I could stomach, especially given that the game is in beta, and I’m sure most players can as well. For example, I love my BR-16, I totally expect it to get hammered further with nerfs at some point because, certainly how it feels in hands, it’s a machine of death. If SD do that, fair enough. That’s up to them, and I can see based on my limited pool of experience that it would potentially be justified. Smooth has confirmed in that quoted post that the jumpsniping issue presents a difficult situation to counter, and doesn’t fit with their perspective on balance. So that’s it. The only thing I’d say SD can do to soothe all these sore butts is to post some analytics that justify the change, but they have no obligation to do that.
I wouldn’t worry though, I’m working on Jump-And-Snipe Simulator 2016, it’ll be coming to Steam Greenlight soon, and I’m certain there will be an audience for it! Stay tuned!
[/quote]
Jumpsniping has been around for close to 3 years. At some point they took it away and put it back in when they realized that he took a hit. That was back in the day when he could still instagib. What makes it okay now after he can’t instagib anymore? He’s not as strong as he was back in the day but back then he apparently got nerfed too much when jumpsniping was removed but today it’s all good? It doesn’t make any sense. They finally realized that jumpsniping was a difficult situation to counter? After 3 fuckin’ years? Unless your brain isn’t slower then the average human being that’s something you realize well before 3 years. But again, the game is being developed so fuckin slowly I wouldn’t be surprised. I guess it’s possible. I mean we’re still waiting for a mercenary that HAS BEEN ALREADY MADE to come out still. It’s just veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy sslllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww.
Btw 2 out of 3 of those things you just said I think it’s already happened for alot of people. They are improving brainless weapons and nerfing skill. More shotguns, less MLG snipers. They’re changing the whole point of what Dirty Bomb was promised to be. A hard to master competitive shooter. “This game will kick your ass.” Meanwhile I get level 4s in my games pick up a shotgun with Aura and obliterate my level 60 ass. And Phantom has been a merc that was destroyed back then with more than 10 nerfs. They improved it with babysteps such as removing the stupid turn limit from the primary melee swing. Besides that nothing major. He’s still a piece of shit and a free kill to anyone who faces him. So yeah… Alot of people are just waiting for a similar game to fuck off. One of those being Overwatch. It may not be the same but it’s fun, competitive and it’s made by blizzard who has a resume of success and not failures. If the game developers don’t get their heads out of their ass this game might die. Which is fine because when Splash Damage released Brink I think it was one of the fastest games to die. So they’re improving.
[quote=“Merciless;149747”]
Jumpsniping has been around for close to 3 years. [/quote]
The game has been in open beta for less than a year. Where the hell are you getting these figures from?
[quote=“Merciless;149747”]
Unless your brain isn’t slower then the average human being that’s something you realize well before 3 years. [/quote]
Which is why we, the consumers, are assisting Splash Damage with feedback on their beta product, because they are all just too stupid to do it themselves. You’re a real delight, implying they are mentally handicapped because they took away your toys? If this is the elite top tier community that’s brewing for Overwatch that’s a fantastic reason never to go anywhere bloody near it.
To be fair there are limitations on Fraggers grenades, it’s not like he can do it constantly.
