Devs ignoring the community on some issues (specifically jump-sniping nerfs)

Amerika · 2016-02-13 05:08:59 UTC

@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge

Merci1ess · 2016-02-13 06:42:27 UTC

[quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

Lmaooo… It just pisses me off. It just feels unfair to me that brainless weapons are being buffed and skill based stuff are being dumbed down and nerfed. The instagib was a little dissapointing although they managed to compensate by improving the fire rate which I was totally fine with. That was pretty much the only patch that actually made sense after the instagib nerf. But the rest… god damn the struggle is real lol.

Merci1ess · 2016-02-13 06:48:51 UTC

[quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

It was in fact… The good ol’ days.

Edit: This was supposed to go with the ^ post but… Oops. I guess.

Amerika · 2016-02-13 07:06:18 UTC

[quote=“Merciless;148924”][quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

It was in fact… The good ol’ days.

Edit: This was supposed to go with the ^ post but… Oops. I guess.[/quote]

R.I.P. Bolt-action rifles.

B_Montiel · 2016-02-13 11:40:34 UTC

Honestly, I don’t know what they are doing. They did not need to do all this balancing stuff. All the fine tunings updates have been just plain useless. The balance is, in my opinion, one best working element of the game right now. All modifications they’ll do on it requires extra care and they’ve been unable to do so for quite some time now.

I’d better call for a total hold on useless balancing updates and give us engine performance updates, and proper bug fixing. There’s nothing justifying such stubbornness on balance right now, especially when the other core elements of the game are in a further worse state.

Jostabeere · 2016-02-13 11:58:51 UTC

[quote=“Jesus;148836”][quote=“Incoming;148716”]I really don’t mind seeing jump shots coming back. My aim isn’t quite good enough to play Vaseline reliably (I can pop head shots with Grandeur, but hit sprinting and bunny hopping people from across the map? Not really), but I respect good players that can play as an aggressive sniper.

To be fair, @Jostabeere probably meant a clear, overwhelming majority and that poll shows that at least the forum is rather split, with a lean towards adding jumping back. The personal attacks aren’t very nice though.[/quote]

56 vs 27 % thats more than the double, people not caring doesnt count at all since well they dont care. And if two times more people isnt an overwhelming majority then I wonder what it needs to be overwhelming[/quote]

Even if it’s a double of no votes, it’s not a democratic majority of 100%. Aswell as saying “I don’t care” should not count isn’t democratic. I’t not a presidental vote where you have to vote for Trump or Obama, or whoever, one way or the other, and votes who say “Both are bad” don’t count. “I don’t care” is an option in the poll and should be taken in account. And those votes do matter.

Jesus2 · 2016-02-13 12:07:57 UTC

[quote=“Merciless;148923”][quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

Lmaooo… It just pisses me off. It just feels unfair to me that brainless weapons are being buffed and skill based stuff are being dumbed down and nerfed. The instagib was a little dissapointing although they managed to compensate by improving the fire rate which I was totally fine with. That was pretty much the only patch that actually made sense after the instagib nerf. But the rest… god damn the struggle is real lol.[/quote]

Its a bit true but a lot of nabs were abusing the instagib on Vassili by just never moving and instagibbing everything they saw. I think this one was a bit necessary, and the way they did it that you can instagib low life people is better managed than what the did to Sparks

SiegeFace · 2016-02-13 19:52:33 UTC

[quote=“CCP115;148718”]
Also I feel as if Sparks mains need to chill a bit, the nerf didn’t seem all that bad.[/quote]

This, Although I only played her for 2 games thus far, the nerfs aren’t as bad as what the community are making her out to be, infact its just raised the skill curve even higher. She seems way more balanced, tbh I used to love hipfire 1 shot across the map instakills with her, but now I realize it was kinda OP xD. This new version of sparks needs more focus from the people playing her if you get what I mean.

blonk · 2016-02-13 21:36:32 UTC

At the end of the day we’re in Splash Damage’s house, the game is their vision, and they are free to take whatever decisions they want to allow it to grow. They have a large number of metrics they can use to analyse the game, not limited to: reddit, dev streams and the forums. The last update shows they are able to pull stats for various weapons/mercs, so whatever decisions they make are tempered by all of these input sources.

I’m pretty thankful that they aren’t solely listening to the forums as suggested. There will be a high, probably even a majority amount of players who never interact with the community via the forums, so pointing at these polls and saying that’s the definitive word of players is rediculous. Most devs know that the forums are a poor place for gathering unbaised feedback, as it’s the first port of call for a lot of bitter players when something happens they don’t like.

And being realistic here, this is a change to one little mechanic that genuinely affects a singular merc. You’d think by the number of threads generated over this issue that, rather than playing Dirty Bomb for the last year, players had been playing a game called “Jump-And-Snipe Simulator 2015”.

I mean I feel for you guys, I really do. It sucks when developers take away something that you enjoy. I think of WoW Wallwalking ages ago, and how players were pining for Blizzard to keep it in the game, despite all the exploits, and it was really sad to see it go. Hell, I quite enjoyed being able to bounce around shotgunning people as Proxy, and was sad to see that go in the changelog, but you know what? I moved on. Within seconds. If you’re getting your knickers in such a twist over such a stupid thing, maybe you should piss off to Overwatch. As I already mentioned, Blizz are more than happy to take away cool things, so don’t think you’re going to be any better off. This game is in BETA after all.

tl;dr stop whining

Merci1ess · 2016-02-13 22:08:10 UTC

[quote=“blonk;149127”]At the end of the day we’re in Splash Damage’s house, the game is their vision, and they are free to take whatever decisions they want to allow it to grow. They have a large number of metrics they can use to analyse the game, not limited to: reddit, dev streams and the forums. The last update shows they are able to pull stats for various weapons/mercs, so whatever decisions they make are tempered by all of these input sources.

I’m pretty thankful that they aren’t solely listening to the forums as suggested. There will be a high, probably even a majority amount of players who never interact with the community via the forums, so pointing at these polls and saying that’s the definitive word of players is rediculous. Most devs know that the forums are a poor place for gathering unbaised feedback, as it’s the first port of call for a lot of bitter players when something happens they don’t like.

And being realistic here, this is a change to one little mechanic that genuinely affects a singular merc. You’d think by the number of threads generated over this issue that, rather than playing Dirty Bomb for the last year, players had been playing a game called “Jump-And-Snipe Simulator 2015”.

I mean I feel for you guys, I really do. It sucks when developers take away something that you enjoy. I think of WoW Wallwalking ages ago, and how players were pining for Blizzard to keep it in the game, despite all the exploits, and it was really sad to see it go. Hell, I quite enjoyed being able to bounce around shotgunning people as Proxy, and was sad to see that go in the changelog, but you know what? I moved on. Within seconds. If you’re getting your knickers in such a twist over such a stupid thing, maybe you should piss off to Overwatch. As I already mentioned, Blizz are more than happy to take away cool things, so don’t think you’re going to be any better off. This game is in BETA after all.

tl;dr stop whining[/quote]

Well good for you on moving on when things didn’t go the way you wanted them to go my man. Although I think I have every right to complain if I want to. I mean I spent money on this game… If there’s something I don’t like about it I’ll express my displeasure towards it.

But to each their own. Some people like to take it up the ass and say nothing. I just like to express my displeasure and so does alot of people on these forums. So if you don’t like it…

XavienX · 2016-02-13 22:48:47 UTC

I guess all those time practicing jumpshotting is no use. SD keeps listening to people who complain about people hopping around in this game and landing perfect shots. Well the main reason why I ever downloaded this game is because you can walljump around and pull off impressive plays based on your skill. Now those walljumping and hopping shooting tactics are taken away, we might as well just expect Dirty Bomb to become a slow paced games. Hell, maybe even take away sprint because there be too many people rushing and killing people. Let’s just turn this game into CSGO.

XavienX · 2016-02-13 22:52:14 UTC

[quote=“blonk;149127”]At the end of the day we’re in Splash Damage’s house, the game is their vision, and they are free to take whatever decisions they want to allow it to grow. They have a large number of metrics they can use to analyse the game, not limited to: reddit, dev streams and the forums. The last update shows they are able to pull stats for various weapons/mercs, so whatever decisions they make are tempered by all of these input sources.

I’m pretty thankful that they aren’t solely listening to the forums as suggested. There will be a high, probably even a majority amount of players who never interact with the community via the forums, so pointing at these polls and saying that’s the definitive word of players is rediculous. Most devs know that the forums are a poor place for gathering unbaised feedback, as it’s the first port of call for a lot of bitter players when something happens they don’t like.

And being realistic here, this is a change to one little mechanic that genuinely affects a singular merc. You’d think by the number of threads generated over this issue that, rather than playing Dirty Bomb for the last year, players had been playing a game called “Jump-And-Snipe Simulator 2015”.

I mean I feel for you guys, I really do. It sucks when developers take away something that you enjoy. I think of WoW Wallwalking ages ago, and how players were pining for Blizzard to keep it in the game, despite all the exploits, and it was really sad to see it go. Hell, I quite enjoyed being able to bounce around shotgunning people as Proxy, and was sad to see that go in the changelog, but you know what? I moved on. Within seconds. If you’re getting your knickers in such a twist over such a stupid thing, maybe you should piss off to Overwatch. As I already mentioned, Blizz are more than happy to take away cool things, so don’t think you’re going to be any better off. This game is in BETA after all.

tl;dr stop whining[/quote]

Yea, it’s a free country. They can do whatever the hell they want to this game because they own it. They can maybe add Zeus’s thunderbolt for Thunder and we can’t do sh*t about it. They can ignore forums where 90% of the users here are experienced players that on average have at least about a year of experience. Sure, they can do all that, like I will ever give a f**k. They’ll just lose their playerbase.

joshstylegaming · 2016-02-13 23:30:37 UTC

My main issue with the update is this:

Jump-shotting can be solved by adding a slight amount of inaacuraccy to a shot (Perhaps the difference between a headshot and a body)
There was no need to nerf the Revivr beyond damage falloff
The Empire-9 nerf seemed poorly planed as it it not only effected Sparks, but also Fletcher
SD needs to learn that there is more to balance than accuracy changes as that’s mostly all the fine tuning updates seems to be.
Even after the decently large buff the DE.50 is still utter trash compared to the revolvers
The only closely bringing the balance in line is the changes to augments, some of the changes though are a bit questionable (Such as some of the changes to Rhino)
SD can stop the stupid endless buffs to the Hochfir now, it’s fine the way it is. (Seriously, how many times has SD buffed the Hochfir?)
I understand the bunnyhopping/shooting changes, but did they have to be so drastic, personally the most I would’ve nerfed the jumping accuracy was 5%, now it just feels too random.

Feel free to express your disagreements about my thoughts

blonk · 2016-02-13 23:37:03 UTC

You go right ahead, I’m not saying you shouldn’t complain, but the OP is making out that because Splash Damage aren’t listening to the 3-4 threads that have been made on this matter (which is excessive in itself, again, it’s not that big a deal) that they are refusing to listen to the community and that the community (the forums specifically) know better than the devs, and people should quit the game. That’s what I take issue with here. You should certainly use the mechanisms Splash Damage have given us to complain, I mean that’s what they are for, but people stamping their feet and saying they’re going to Overwatch over this? A tiny change to one of what, 18 mercs? Can’t you see how ridiculous that is?

ProfPlump · 2016-02-13 23:50:57 UTC

[quote=“Merciless;148923”][quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

Lmaooo… It just pisses me off. It just feels unfair to me that brainless weapons are being buffed and skill based stuff are being dumbed down and nerfed. The instagib was a little dissapointing although they managed to compensate by improving the fire rate which I was totally fine with. That was pretty much the only patch that actually made sense after the instagib nerf. But the rest… god damn the struggle is real lol.[/quote]

Well the insta-gib was DEFINITELY op, as was stressed many times by the competitive teams in Dirty Cups as well as a lot of the pub community players. In fact, I seem to remember the pro players saying that the insta-gibs were the most overpowered thing in the game. The devs DID listen to the community on that one, and it was correctly removed (and the re-buffs were well designed as well as the ability to bodyshot gib players who were already downed, rather than needing a headshot).

SnakekillerX · 2016-02-14 00:10:31 UTC

[quote=“Jostabeere;148980”][quote=“Jesus;148836”][quote=“Incoming;148716”]I really don’t mind seeing jump shots coming back. My aim isn’t quite good enough to play Vaseline reliably (I can pop head shots with Grandeur, but hit sprinting and bunny hopping people from across the map? Not really), but I respect good players that can play as an aggressive sniper.

To be fair, @Jostabeere probably meant a clear, overwhelming majority and that poll shows that at least the forum is rather split, with a lean towards adding jumping back. The personal attacks aren’t very nice though.[/quote]

56 vs 27 % thats more than the double, people not caring doesnt count at all since well they dont care. And if two times more people isnt an overwhelming majority then I wonder what it needs to be overwhelming[/quote]

Even if it’s a double of no votes, it’s not a democratic majority of 100%. Aswell as saying “I don’t care” should not count isn’t democratic. I’t not a presidental vote where you have to vote for Trump or Obama, or whoever, one way or the other, and votes who say “Both are bad” don’t count. “I don’t care” is an option in the poll and should be taken in account. And those votes do matter.
[/quote]

Not to mention that many players do not use this forum. The actually majority of people playing haven’t voted, or even heard of this poll… hell, many people registered on this forum haven’t voted either.

Not every decision revolving this game can be based on forum polls.
While there is nothing wrong in making a poll to see what a select few people think, you are still only listening to that select few… a minority group, even if this group is most vocal to us since we come to this forum and see it.

While I get that jump sniping was a beloved feature by many, it is also a place of grief for others and I respect them for at least attempting to change things up.

I don’t know why people are lashing out towards the devs so much. They are just people doing their job, and have made an amazing game we love to play.

They have a vision for this game as well, and ultimately it is in their hands to continue improving and adding to this game, not ours. We may help with suggestions, but they are just that… suggestions. They are under no obligation to implement everything we want or think is best.

Whenever there is a change we disagree with people always seem to forget just how much the devs actually have listened to us already in the past. They don’t deserve the hostility they are getting from people.

This is their game, not yours. While we have placed hours upon hours playing the game, they have placed hours upon hours WORKING on the game. They know what is to come in future updates of this game and we do not. We can help shape it as the game develops, but have to trust that they know whats best for us too.

Regardless of whether they revert this change or not, we will adapt, the game may change. This is the nature of development. It is not always the best thing for every single person, but rather a combination of choices that hope to improve things as a whole.

Jesus2 · 2016-02-14 02:06:26 UTC

[quote=“blonk;149127”]At the end of the day we’re in Splash Damage’s house,

I’m pretty thankful that they aren’t solely listening to the forums as suggested. There will be a high, probably even a majority amount of players who never interact with the community via the forums,

And being realistic here, this is a change to one little mechanic that genuinely affects a singular merc. [/quote]

We are in Splash Damage’s House ? fucking lol we are the one paying the house without their player they are nothing.
This is a change to a mecanic that makes the whole gameplay of a merc ,that before was kinda funny and hard to play, lame unfunny and totally not needing any skill apart point peoples head with your mouse

[quote=“SnakekillerX;149189”][
I don’t know why people are lashing out towards the devs so much. They are just people doing their job, and have made an amazing game we love to play.
[/quote]

Just no, not even close, i now have to force myself to finish one objective game i want to leave after five minutes the devs deserves every single bit they are taking its just the result of their poor choice. Their job is to make the game live not disgust players. Jumpshotting on vassili was used only by a handful of player it was not abused it was not at exploit it was not overused either there is no reason to not have it in the game. You think Jump shotting is a nasty move lets speak about the undodgeable grenade fragger toss in your face after having cooked it for two second and that will kill you every single time provided the fragger dont mess his throw, this is a real nasty move that doesnt need any skill, while jump shoting does.

[quote=“SnakekillerX;149189”]
Whenever there is a change we disagree with people always seem to forget just how much the devs actually have listened to us already in the past. They don’t deserve the hostility they are getting from people.[/quote]

They listen to us on what planet do you live ? cause i want to live here, there is definitly a majority of people who agreed since several patches that phantom is now borderline useless, and you can see it by how much he is picked in ranked, which is almost not at all, there has been tons of thread proposing lots of rework for him, some of them having really good idea and what news do we have about that ? None “they are looking into it” fucking lol people proposed lot of thunder modification worth the try and what did they do a little almost useless buff to Concunade. They are not listening at all.

18 merc ? they have one ability changing from each other. They all share common weapon and other than their ability there is very few merc having a unique gameplay for fighting.
Actually the only one with special gameplay are Fletcher Phantom Sparks Vassili and maybe Rhino for all the others at every fight you find yourself doing pretty much the same thing strafing crouching while shooting especially after the mobility nerf. So speak about your 18 merc when most of them are boring and out of the 5 that arent one is totally useless and forgotten by the devs since 7 patches another one has been overnerfed, another one just got removed one big aspect of his gameplay, and of the two left one is an indoor camping killfest pray and spray needing close to no skill, so now the only one left a bit funny to play and still viable is Fletcher, fine but i have played between 250-300h with this guy it gets kinda boring.

Now you want to compare with Overwatch ?
we are speaking of the game with 21 different character all having 4 totally different and unique ability and all different weapons unique to them and all having unique way of being played. Leaving for that game totally makes sense for me. Blizzard have proved since a long time ago what they are capable of, they proved that they were able to deliver a well done game offering variety and you are pretty much sure that whatever you may buy from them you will not waste your money. They proved that they are able to do good game by themselves and dont need the total involvement of the community. They are the company who made mmorpg as it is today, they took over big part of the card games scenes too with hearthstone, same with RTS Starcraft is probably one of the top RTS existing right now. And they got out a pretty good MOBA game. I could prebuy Ovewatch right now ill be sure to not waste my money
If Wow wasnt a good game no one would pay the price it cost monthly to play it.

We cant say the same of Splash Damage, if i was a founder of this game that paid one of those pack in the beginning id be pretty pissed and disappointed with the game right now. And Splash Damage still have to prove us what they can do, yes they were involved in ennemy territory but its the community that made this game great, we all know how brink ended and Dirty Bomb doesnt have the same kind of community participation ET had even though it would probably be very beneficial to it.

Dont get me wrong i loved Dirty Bomb and i still inside of me have a little hope for them to get better but right now i can only say i loved it to the past tense cause its not true anymore, and if they dont get theur shit together ill have no remorse to leave this game for blizzard one which seems way more interesting in its actual state than dirty bomb is despite the price difference.

Jesus2 · 2016-02-14 02:17:31 UTC

[quote=“Jesus;148982”][quote=“Merciless;148923”][quote=“Amerika;148904”]@Merciless Hey, remember when you could not only jump shoot but you could also instagib on headshots?

/me is pushing Merciless a little closer to that edge :)[/quote]

Lmaooo… It just pisses me off. It just feels unfair to me that brainless weapons are being buffed and skill based stuff are being dumbed down and nerfed. The instagib was a little dissapointing although they managed to compensate by improving the fire rate which I was totally fine with. That was pretty much the only patch that actually made sense after the instagib nerf. But the rest… god damn the struggle is real lol.[/quote]

Its a bit true but a lot of nabs were abusing the instagib on Vassili by just never moving and instagibbing everything they saw. I think this one was a bit necessary, and the way they did it that you can instagib low life people is better managed than what the did to Sparks[/quote]

even if we take in account the i dont care that you cant place in any of the side. 56% is still an absolute majority when you have only one poll done.

SnakekillerX · 2016-02-14 03:42:14 UTC

The game has not even changed that much within the last few patches, these things are minor and make you as a player adapt and try new things. The jump accuracy with vassili I can see being annoying, but there are also people complaining that sparks is completely useless now which is completely BS.

The bottom line is you can’t please everyone, what you find acceptable/tolerable or even good/great can be something someone else dislikes, or even hates with a passion.

You are one person, and just because you aren’t 100% pleased does not mean the devs don’t listen.

Changes take time to make and to test, and you won’t always like them. They do however TRY and improve the game. They aren’t sitting around going “We totally want to fail and lose money, how can we make this game worse and piss everyone off?”.

People want new content, and regular patches, but then they are never pleased with any of the new content or patches… I can only imagine how the devs must feel while the community rages and bitches towards them over every detail.

The devs do listen, the nerfs to Phantom and Sparks should be enough of an example, even if I do or do not agree with the outcome. This was caused by the community.

To say they don’t listen or care is just silly. Some things are higher priority than others, and while the community often asks for things like better private servers, or community maps, that is again an example of low priority given that the game is still in beta state and there are other things to fix.

blonk · 2016-02-14 04:07:12 UTC

http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/141/3c2b7a90-e6f1-0132-4660-0ebc4eccb42f.gif?