DEV STREAM ROUND-UP: 15TH FEBRUARY 2016 [Smooth Special]

[blisteringOwlNest]

Healing grenades? Hell yes. You give me those, you can do what ever you want to this game. Just… I need my ranged aoe heals.

[B_Montiel]

Don’t forget a thing I quickly mentioned in my last post : New iterations of ranking mm won’t work as long as they keep the same basis around. What is a total cancer right now, even on pubs, is that you find people with level 15 still not understanding proper floor basics of the game.

And they’re just a pain in the arse to deal with in ranked. Last we entered ranked as a 3 men premade, we just spent the whole game explaining to the other two how important it was to have consistency in your merc selection, and therefore adapt to their random behaviours. Those behaviours won’t change as long as ranked is only accessible with level 5. Before any new season, they should also think urgently about raising the minimum level to access ranked. If they raise it to 10 (maybe 15) and clearly state they’ll reintroduce a 5vs5 ranked mm as soon as possible, why not.

My biggest fear, especially with SD, is that they will inevitably forget about 5vs5 ranked if they remove it. Although it’s what the game is designed for. And I clearly don’t trust them on that one. You should not too.

By the way, @Szakalot, DBN and private match servers, ok. But that’s not what I call quality servers for comp games. If we don’t have access to pause, forced restart without voting, the quality will be just the same as a mm game. Competitive playing requires administration they refuse to give us. Well, in fact, I don’t why I’m still hoping in a community oriented future. It does not exist already…

[Szakalot]

i see what you mean, but its not such a big deal if the other team is equally suboptimal and unorganized. the biggest issue and the most frustrating games are when one team is a lot etter than the other, which happened wayyy too often. You aren’t bothered about that clueless medic if winning/losing objective doesnt depend purely on their clutch (lack of) play, and if opponent’s medics are equally clueless.

Plus, as you go up in rank you will meet equally skilled players. So as a cobalt player you can now actually hope for a game where 90% of players are cobalt, rather than 6 cobalts, 2 golds and 2 silvers; lol.

and if what you crave is those REALLY organized games, well get motivated and join a proper team.

i have nothing against wanting to queue up with friends, but NOT at the cost of enjoyment of the entire opposition, and saying that they should ‘suck it up and learn some teamplay’ exhibits major lack of understanding of how games are played - to those players i recommend: soloqueue a bit and see for yourself if you can get same level of teamplay going.

[Szakalot]

[quote=“B. Montiel;150312”]
By the way, @Szakalot, DBN and private match servers, ok. But that’s not what I call quality servers for comp games. If we don’t have access to pause, forced restart without voting, the quality will be just the same as a mm game. Competitive playing requires administration they refuse to give us. Well, in fact, I don’t why I’m still hoping in a community oriented future. It does not exist already…[/quote]

agree on all that, but like you point out, thats not an argument against a soloqueue - just features comp players really need.

[B_Montiel]

[quote=“Szakalot;150313”]Plus, as you go up in rank you will meet equally skilled players. So as a cobalt player you can now actually hope for a game where 90% of players are cobalt, rather than 6 cobalts, 2 golds and 2 silvers; lol.
[/quote]

You give way too much credits to SD. It’s been a year and they have not proved anything to me on those fields, both on public or on matchmaking purposes. I don’t see any reason why their algorithm would suddenly give satisfying results. It will take 5 golds against 2 cobalts, 1 gold and 2 silvers and say it’s average and balanced, as it always did.

[Eox]

Wait wait wait reducing the number of Stickybombs Fletcher has ? I seriously hope this change will never see the light. Do your damage nerf if you want, but the number of sticky bombs should really not be changed.

[Szakalot]

[quote=“B. Montiel;150316”][quote=“Szakalot;150313”]Plus, as you go up in rank you will meet equally skilled players. So as a cobalt player you can now actually hope for a game where 90% of players are cobalt, rather than 6 cobalts, 2 golds and 2 silvers; lol.
[/quote]

You give way too much credits to SD. It’s been a year and they have not proved anything to me on those fields, both on public or on matchmaking purposes. I don’t see any reason why their algorithm would suddenly give satisfying results. It will take 5 golds against 2 cobalts, 1 gold and 2 silvers and say it’s average and balanced, as it always did.[/quote]

a pool of 6 golds, 2 cobalts and 2 silvers can be (unlike when you are forced by a premade to adjust solos to a fixed 5player team) split right in the middle: 1 cobalt, 3 golds, 1 silver in each team. Thx for pointing out exactly why a solo/duo mode is a lot more likely to get better teams!

I’ve made probably a dozen lengthy posts on why pubs suffer from bad balance (that has nothing to do with algorithm itself), its kinda late; ask me again tomorrow if you want another summary

[B_Montiel]

[quote=“Szakalot;150322”][quote=“B. Montiel;150316”][quote=“Szakalot;150313”]Plus, as you go up in rank you will meet equally skilled players. So as a cobalt player you can now actually hope for a game where 90% of players are cobalt, rather than 6 cobalts, 2 golds and 2 silvers; lol.
[/quote]

You give way too much credits to SD. It’s been a year and they have not proved anything to me on those fields, both on public or on matchmaking purposes. I don’t see any reason why their algorithm would suddenly give satisfying results. It will take 5 golds against 2 cobalts, 1 gold and 2 silvers and say it’s average and balanced, as it always did.[/quote]

a pool of 6 golds, 2 cobalts and 2 silvers can be (unlike when you are forced by a premade to adjust solos to a fixed 5player team) split right in the middle: 1 cobalt, 3 golds, 1 silver in each team. Thx for pointing out exactly why a solo/duo mode is a lot more likely to get better teams!

I’ve made probably a dozen lengthy posts on why pubs suffer from bad balance (that has nothing to do with algorithm itself), its kinda late; ask me again tomorrow if you want another summary [/quote]

Nononono, I perfectly know how it works for pubs and the different effects. But the final result is that both sucks. That’s a fact. SD spent quite some hard efforts into building a useless auto scrambler, even got spits for doing it. SD sucks at doing scrambling/team arranger systems.
And except removing 3-4-5 players premades, there is nothing more. And that’s precisely my problem here. They are taking some massive efforts into things that will have out of the box consequences. I’m sure there’s more intricate problems that also prevent ranked matchmaking from being successful. And again, there’s no sign of improvements on other fields. So this change will in my opinion will have a minor impact as the rest will still be total crap. Better safe than sorry.

[Szakalot]

well… i see your perspective now, but i dont share it : D

Typically, friday peak hours minvll10 SW servers had very good balance for me

[Dawnlazy]

Game is balanced for 5vs5. You may not queue for an organized 5vs5. How is this a good idea?

MM balancing can only be improved up to a certain point; the rest is up to you stepping it up, I soloqueued and got my ass kicked all the time when I started until I got to meet some actually decent players in MM, started making friends and expanding my list of connections to the point where I could almost always get a good 5 man premade going on.

But for some reason ranked is full of people who don’t even try to talk to their team mates and queue without even knowing map layouts, it’s no wonder you’re gonna lose terribly even if it’s not against a cobalt stack but just against someone that isn’t clueless. I once had a soloqueued game in Bridge where the enemy team got to the last objective, then I defended the lab all by myself for 3 minutes… against about 3 enemies that tried going in separately during that time window. The kind of game where I was sure that all other 9 players had either never played Bridge or at most once or twice. What were those people even doing in comp?

TL ; DR: stop complaining about losing to better players, git gud, add people who are gud and start making your own stacks.

[Jesus2]

[quote=“Szakalot;150279”]
Sorry, no stomping solos for you anymore. [/quote]

@Szakalot
Eh sorry but no i never played ranked anyway so this doesnt concern me as much as it must concern you, when i say people are not going to suddenly be interested i dont emulate the comportement of people, i say that from my own experience with the playerbase you are trying to draw in ranked aka pubbers, which are most of the time the least sociable person in this whole game. Just try what i said, in pub you are lucky if on ten games you find two or three persons that will answer you. But whatever if you want to have so much faith in newcommers. I once got a shut up cunt and play because i explained someone they couldnt repair at the same time as an engineer.

But no, according to you this new ranked will magically change people, people are all going to be super to each others they are gonna be all fair play and teamplaying using VOIP to give themselves all the indication a team would need they will know all the VOIP command by heart and everything will work super fine there will be no animosity and people will totally start sympatizing with strangers at everygame and will have constructive conversation about their team composition and you will have a super ranked mode. Keep dreaming and keep living in your perfect utopia.

Im just being pragmatic, and i know nothing will go like that people will use the voip at the same degree than in pub which means just for medic ammo screw you and Special Taunt.
People will start picking on each other during the game because of Friendly Fire on 1/3 of the game giving free win to the other team. People will not discuss about their composition constructively in the lobby all youll see will be “i play proxy” “No i am engineer” “isaid first” “i dont care fuck you” or “I play Vassili” “No play something else noob” “shut the fuck up cunt i play what i want”. If anyone ever played a moba he most likely experienced this situation where you find yourself with two mid because of those kind of people.

Continue living in your perfect world with teletubbies and bisnounours all you want this is still a terrible decision, and to be so concerned you must have tried to soloQ quite some time.
And yes the stupid loners in which you put so much credit arent gonna start to be interested in teamplay. This change will be the end of teamplay in Ranked i know it will go like that and other realistic people too and then there is dreamers like you, you can live your own little utopia land if you want it wont change reality.

[BomBaKlaK]

And that’s how DB became a solo/duo game.
Did you planned to add split screen ?

[Szakalot]

@Dawnrazor are you trolling? this mentality is exactly the problem:
if the only way to play is to join a a premade of 5 - MM will be dead. how are you going to find good teamplayers; on pubs with MM off? which is the exact situation we have now.

its like the only way to walk safe on the street is to join a gang - no thanks

so its no longer possible to play ‘organized 5’ vs. ‘pub dream team’ : why is it such a bad thing?

[Szakalot]

@Jesus

i thought JESUS would believe in a better world, lol.

you arent advancing your arguments much if you simply say that you ‘see the world as is’ and the rest is naive and delusional

will there be terrible players in MM? sure: but only at lower ranks: i expect people at my skill level (cobalt/elite) to be all about teamplay; i know most of these players one way or another anyways

also: dont draw from pubs conclusions about the MM playerbase, there are definitely good tryhard teamplayers out there that simply dont have a good outlet for their gamestyle. pubs- with their horrible balance and when half the team is playing TDM? pleeeease

[bontsa]

I don’t see any problem in picking a game or 2 with different persons from our 7 man gang we often use to play ranked with anytime we have 5 online. On side note, our best pub experiences come from us being like 2 on opposing sides, can’t wait to see the situation where 2x of our duos get put against each other in ranked.

Fastest way to see each other’s flaws and strenghts lies there in my opinion, and since least I want to get better and see our group in tournaments in the future, I need to know not only how to play with these magnificent fellas, but also what they’re lacking and need support in. We’ve talked about the upcoming change and see no problem in seeing it for this season. Once we want scrimming, we try to get some through Discord/TS for now, until better alternative (preferably official from dev side) shows up. Which should be doable unless every other 5man premades give up like this thread seems to suggest. Maybe not everyone are so easy to chicken out, we’ll see.

[Fonzie]

The point is…will Elite players do ranked matches in solo/duo system? Will they get deranked in one match against a random “Bronze 5-Silver2” enemy team? If it’s so they’ll never play ranked till the premade setup is come…IMHO and I repeat IMHO you have to FIX and I repeat FIX the actual mm system, just to balance matches (I read a lot of tips in this 4 pages) AND make a parallel new System based on solo and duo…but in the same time…work on both not only on the newest one…it’s my tip to partially solve the mm problem…AND another tip: some players want the friendly fire in public matches…just add few server with ff enabled…maybe min. lvl. 10 too…maybe those who disliked the actual ranked matches will go to these new servers…so similar to ranked ones

[opicr0n]

wall of text …

Could you please gaze deep in your orb of truth and tell us more?

I come across more of your posts and you seem to overextend your sarcasm quite a lot. Why not try to get a real discussion going?

[Jesus2]

@Opicron
Sarcasm is a way of life.
In short, this premade change doesnt affect me but i still believe is a bad decision to deny the game to all the player that played premade because they are mostly not gonna wait S2 to play together again and this change comes in a bad time, and I think people gives way too much credit to the playerbase they are trying to attract in ranked. I personally think the point they are trying to achieve isnt worth the risk they are taking.

@Szakalot Last time i tried to make the world a better place ive been crossed. I dont really want to renew the experience

[N8o]

After being pissed about this for a while, I have come to realize that this is actually the best decision they can make at this point in time. It’s a bandaid fix, but it is a fix. This is going to be temporary anyways. They wont keep it like this forever, it would ACTUALLY kill the game.

[Dawnlazy]

[quote=“Szakalot;150435”]@Dawnrazor are you trolling? this mentality is exactly the problem:
if the only way to play is to join a a premade of 5 - MM will be dead. how are you going to find good teamplayers; on pubs with MM off? which is the exact situation we have now.

its like the only way to walk safe on the street is to join a gang - no thanks

so its no longer possible to play ‘organized 5’ vs. ‘pub dream team’ : why is it such a bad thing?[/quote]

Except it’s not the only way to play? A major point of my post was about how people go into MM with 40 hours of game time, don’t know the maps, don’t use their mics and get their asses kicked then create threads in here complaining about MM. You can very well beat premades, the other day I actually watched 5 of my friends lose to a 3 man premade and 2 solos (one of my friends was streaming). And don’t pretend that MM is always 5-stacks of cobalts versus randoms, there are plenty of games where it’s cobalt stack vs cobalt stack or solos vs solos.