DEV STREAM ROUND-UP: 15TH FEBRUARY 2016 [Smooth Special]

(triteCherry) #61

They added more incentives for people to try competitive mode in the form of trinkets, now they are making sure that pre-made teams don’t stomp anyone that goes into queue without a full team. I see this as an attempt to gain more interest from the general public to play competitive mode that in the future will form teams for when they add more team based options.

It would also potentially increase the amount of teams, lowering time between matches and increase lasting interest in the game mode. Just because people can’t have it now, now, now I see nothing but good that comes from starting the season newbie friendly. Short term restriction for long term gain, for everyone.

(bontsa) #62

[quote=“B. Montiel;150033”][quote=“bontsa;149981”]
E: Now that my lousy connection and browser has taken it’s sweet time to dl the second page of replies, I quite do see good point @BMontiel 's discussion about lack of rental servers. That is bad, but could be an ok band-aid fix to attempt to get some more usage to routes like DirtyBomb Discord/Teamspeak channels, using private lobbies and asking communities like DBN&OCB etc. for servers while doing pugs/scrims?
[/quote]

Wut ? Rental servers a band-aid fix ? By any means it’s not. That’d be the definite best thing they’d have ever done in this game.
Right now, not giving the rental option is one of the major thing which is shortening the life expectancy of this game in my library, coupled by the fact that Nx does not give a shit about maintaining official servers so they have a decent shape most of the time.
[/quote]

There is a quite huge misunderstoodment here, which my text done after 24h shift is partly at fault, pardon me.

By no means I ment rental servers are bandaid fix, heck I’ve been in the same boat first wondering where the hell are they and after that requesting them agreeing whole-heartedly with side wanting rental-servers, ever since I joined in May. Those are the core to creating community involvement and fixing tons of pub-play inbalances, just to mention a few of the many positives it would bring.

I ment this harsh separation of ques by outright removing 5man-premade possibility seems like a quickfix attempting to least try something out for the player alienating inbalance ranked is riddled at the moment.

E: Yep, the same thing you are aware of too, I’m not attacking you (felt like had to be mentioned due some other responses around this thread)

This amount of negative reactions make think more and more SD should reconsider simply separating the ques instead of removing other. They do not make me think current decision would be bad on core idea, but if large majority starts being vocal and outright negative about it, another route should be taken. Dictatorship of the majority and all that. I’ll play ranked with this change, I’ll try to get our 5man premade into scrims, etc.etc.

(B_Montiel) #63

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;150091”]You guys don’t seem to grasp the situation at hand, 5 man premades are precisely the reason matchmaking ques take so long, because by design the matchmaking will try to throw you with people of a higher rank the more people you have in your party. This causes the long match que times.

The second issue is the unfair matchups, you have a team of 5 who are very well coordinated vs a team of random players who likely aren’t. I think an in game scrim finder would be an ideal solution to that problem, Ranked shouldn’t the end all be all comp mode for all scenarios, it should be the middle ground between a pub and a tournament imo.

Right now though it’s not fitting that role. The player pool is just too small.[/quote]

No, I’m not mentally impaired.

I totally understand why they are doing this. But that’s the worst solution they could possibly find to solve those issues. More than improving the mm, they are burying it in the sand. Literally. Most of vets spending time on mm have spent it by going premade.
And as long as there are not rental servers, scrim scene is utter crap in this game.

So we’ll end up having on one hand private matches with no server admin possible, thus making proper scrim conditions impossible to reach. On the other hand, a ranked mm which is limited for solo and duo queues.

You know what, I clearly don’t have a clue on how this is going to improve both attendance and balance on ranked mm. I was not the only to go on mm only if I had a full premade team. Most people who were doing this will certainly drop mm. So you can erase the 10% top tier players who were playing mm actively. How paradoxical ?

And the balance, how is it going to change anything ? The algorithm will try to create teams based on an average skill in both teams. First, it already does not work in current public games. But if two top level get mixed with 3 low dudes against 5 medium level dudes, the first team will still win, considering how the game works right now. So the three low bobs will get carried, the 5 medium will have an horrible time and get outclassed by 3 donkeys.

In my opinion, the best thing they had to do was to force everyone into joining full premade rooms instead of splitting everyone. I’m sorry but I really can’t associate “DB”, “Ranked” and “Soloqueue” in the same sentence. It has no sense at all, especially in dirty bomb.

What makes mad about is that they are lowering the standards once again. And everyone will benefit the same gaming conditions than someone who is too socially retarded to join a teamspeak. Toxic players definitely won that :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :(…

They can try it, but it won’t certainly grab more players than it currently does. There’s no reason why it would. The balance will be just as bad. And you’ll also have to fight your team mates that refuse to cooperate. This does not sound competitive at all.

More importantly, you can’t just expect the mm to improve on its own by just reformulating it. That’s a grand but totally ineffective gesture if there’s no proper content improvements coming with it.

(BomBaKlaK) #64

What he said ! + 1 000

(method) #65

Good changes to ranked. Only 8 months too late.

(Feley) #66

Well at least 1st Season will start fairly :slight_smile:

(BananaSlug) #67

flether nerf ? YES finally and i hope pdp nerf will be huge

(Szakalot) #68

Bunch of people explained it well, but ill try as well seeing as the discussion is ongoing:

  • MM is a broken mode atm, that ONLY caters to premade teams. Soloqueueing is a deathwish, there is absolutely no fun in trying to carry a bunch of newcomers against an organized team, even if their individual skill levels would make me think ‘nooblets’ had i encountered them on the pub
  • One of the reasons playerpool is very small is precisely the premade vs. solo problem: new players that only start their DB experience and unlock MM for the first time will get quickly discouraged as they have to struggle against an organized team, with soloqueue teammates ragequitting, etc.
  • YOU NEED a reliable playerbase of solos to have a mode where people can party up: how else is a 4x premade and 5x premade supposed to be matched up?
  • People that say ‘this is the only way to play with friends’ - rest assured that some form of friends play will return - whether its a party pub or a pure 5v5 mode (id imagine a solo/duo and 5x premades-only to be a very succesful division of ranked play; fingers crossed)
  • to the premade fanboys: consider how often you get an even game. Only one out of a few games will be against another premade, the rest is an easy stomp through poor solos. How much fun was it, do you think, for those players to go against an organized team that is ‘practicing for a cup’ LOL
  • community servers - yes it would be amazing to have those; but you already have easily accessed DBN servers, and - in a pinch- the private match functionality. two teams of 5x can very well find a game outside of the MM. 10 soloqueuers cannot.
  • Seeing as the new mode is introduced with a new season, this is exactly a way to revitalize MM. MM is dying as premades are scaring away any solo playerbase, and premades vs. premades is unlikely, since … the playerbase is small. Should soloqueue be a great success (i predict it will), more and more people will get interested in the 5v5 FF-ON mode, which in turn will generate more teams of 5 to scrim with. See this as an investment into your potential fun in the future, rather than vulturing a broken&dying mode.
  • It will be A LOT easier to have even teams: not only in terms of their total skill level, but also individual player skill. No longer will a cobalt player have to play with silvers in either team. Playing a game where individual skill level of each player is roughly the same is A LOT MORE ENJOYABLE than one godlike + bunch of noobs in each team. Its also easier to balance.
  • to close beta players: please recall the initial matchmaking weekend tests. Typically the first day was poor, cause system didn’t know player’s skill levels. The second day was A LOT better, with tight games and significant emergent teamplay.

Ive been playing in premades before but got quickly bored of it: typically 5-6 games in a row would be ridiculously easy stomps, and half the time we’d have to wait for the map to run its course, long after the ENTIRE enemy team QQed (that was before the surrender vote was in place). Ive been regularly trying to get into MM again as solo/duo queue with a friend, but always got discouraged/frustrated, as Id have to carry an inferior unorganized team of newbies against a decent team. Can’t imagine how unfun was it for my teammates, who were stomped completely (i could at least win 1on1 and enjoy the challenge of consistently going 1v3 , etc.)

(Szakalot) #69

the problem of public balance has all to do with when shuffle is made (in lobby; before game), and the drop in/out nature of the game + large skill variation of individual players, and nothing to do with the algorithm itself, which is pretty decent if the skill amplitude isn’t too big, and the server is full when shuffle is being done.

I also don’t predict the problem you speak of: two top level players are A LOT MORE LIKELY to be able to encounter another two top level players, with a bunch of mediums in between. Since the soloqueue starts with a new season, there is a pretty good chance a lot of people will give it a try - at least at first. As I predict teams to be more balanced, the mode might actually become popular over a longer period, solving this problem altogether.

In my opinion, the best thing they had to do was to force everyone into joining full premade rooms instead of splitting everyone. I’m sorry but I really can’t associate “DB”, “Ranked” and “Soloqueue” in the same sentence. It has no sense at all, especially in dirty bomb.

completely disagree, one of the reasons why RTCW/ET/QW/DB pubs are fun, is precisely the emergent teamplay between strangers. Things like tk-revive and certain map metas (e.g. aura plonking a station down on bridge last stage defense) that come out from seemingly ‘nowhere’ is great: now imagine that on a 5v5 soloqueue mode.

What makes mad about is that they are lowering the standards once again. And everyone will benefit the same gaming conditions than someone who is too socially retarded to join a teamspeak. Toxic players definitely won that :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :(…

totally agree that toxic players are still a problem, and things like ragequiting and griefing should be punished more. Ideally a reputation ‘good teamplayer / bad teamplayer’ system would go a long way in making a soloqueue mode enjoyable (too low reputation, you get banned from the season, etc.)

They can try it, but it won’t certainly grab more players than it currently does. There’s no reason why it would. The balance will be just as bad. And you’ll also have to fight your team mates that refuse to cooperate. This does not sound competitive at all.

More importantly, you can’t just expect the mm to improve on its own by just reformulating it. That’s a grand but totally ineffective gesture if there’s no proper content improvements coming with it.

don’t see why balance would be just as bad. not at all. MM was BROKEN, and something had to be done. Even if this idea will fail (and it wont :tongue: ) its definitely worth a try, over the horrific situation we have currently.

(DMaster2) #70

[quote=“B. Montiel;150064”]Yup, disabling 5 players ranked mm is liking giving credits to toxic players who are not able to socialize. Instead of putting them together, you’ll now force everyone to endorse 1 to 3 of those who won’t communicate anyway. What a great step forward…
It would have more sense to only keep 5 players mm.[/quote]
Devs are complaining that mm have a terribly low population for quite some time. What are you suggesting WON’T solve that. I have a couple of friends on steam but i solo queue the rare times i play ranked. And often it ends in a stomp because you face a whole clan. What happens then? Think i’ll queue up again? Nope back to casual obj where at least the games are decently balanced.
And that’s sum up why ranked is so low populated. If this works more people will play comp. And with more people there may be enough population for the mm to be actually able to have the 5-man queue back.

(Szakalot) #71

[quote=“DMaster2;150226”][quote=“B. Montiel;150064”]Yup, disabling 5 players ranked mm is liking giving credits to toxic players who are not able to socialize. Instead of putting them together, you’ll now force everyone to endorse 1 to 3 of those who won’t communicate anyway. What a great step forward…
It would have more sense to only keep 5 players mm.[/quote]
Devs are complaining that mm have a terribly low population for quite some time. What are you suggesting WON’T solve that. I have a couple of friends on steam but i solo queue the rare times i play ranked. And often it ends in a stomp because you face a whole clan. What happens then? Think i’ll queue up again? Nope back to casual obj where at least the games are decently balanced.
And that’s sum up why ranked is so low populated. If this works more people will play comp. And with more people there may be enough population for the mm to be actually able to have the 5-man queue back.[/quote]

pretty much summarized the whole point there!

(bontsa) #72

@Szakalot Where is my “I want this man to have and raise my first-born-son” reaction? Solid presentation as usual!

(Jesus) #73

You and anyone thinking that are so badly delusional. Like if preventing premade would suddenly magically make appear new super interested players, now ranked is pub. Do you see any other proficient game were premading is forbidden in the competitive

Premade will most likely return? Oh fuck come on we all know SD is super slow as fuck, you think those people who played premade are gonna wait 8 month till SD finally accept again that they can play together ? Like if this game was the only one existing? People are going to leave and by the time premade comes again they will have found new games to play.

So this thing is basically a big fuck you to people able to socialize make friends and start a team in favor of stupid insecure loners who dont want to communicate with their team.
Enter in 20 different pub games and just say Hi youll see how sociable and communicative those players you want in ranked will be. Now the only reason they will come play ranked is for the 50% more credit and because it will be just like pubs.

(Szakalot) #74

[quote=“Jesus;150276”][quote=“Szakalot;150167”]

  • Seeing as the new mode is introduced with a new season, this is exactly a way to revitalize MM. MM is dying as premades are scaring away any solo playerbase, and premades vs. premades is unlikely, since … the playerbase is small. Should soloqueue be a great success (i predict it will), more and more people will get interested in the 5v5 FF-ON mode, which in turn will generate more teams of 5 to scrim with. See this as an investment into your potential fun in the future, rather than vulturing a broken&dying mode.
  • It will be A LOT easier to have even teams: not only in terms of their total skill level, but also individual player skill. No longer will a cobalt player have to play with silvers in either team. Playing a game where individual skill level of each player is roughly the same is A LOT MORE ENJOYABLE than one godlike + bunch of noobs in each team. Its also easier to balance.
    [/quote]

You and anyone thinking that are so badly delusional. Like if preventing premade would suddenly magically make appear new super interested players, now ranked is pub. Do you see any other proficient game were premading is forbidden in the competitive [/quote]

Why not? ranks will be reset, which is the FIRST time since the conception of MM. It will give people a sense of a fresh new start, surely a bunch of people will try. I know I will (with a friend).
They might like it and tag a player along. Should enough of the playerbase switch to MM, queue times will drop drastically, and quality of games will increase as well. Frankly, I see no other way to ‘save’ MM at this point.

Its also much easier to find one buddy to queue with, than organizing a team of 4-5 people. And everyone I knew who would have wanted to grind ranks would almost never queue up with less than 4, in risk of losing a game to another premade.

Premade will most likely return? Oh fuck come on we all know SD is super slow as fuck, you think those people who played premade are gonna wait 8 month till SD finally accept again that they can play together ? Like if this game was the only one existing? People are going to leave and by the time premade comes again they will have found new games to play.

the infrastructure is already there, the only thing that SD has to be convinced of is that people will want to play 5v5 in teams of ~5 only.

So this thing is basically a big fuck you to people able to socialize make friends and start a team in favor of stupid insecure loners who dont want to communicate with their team.
Enter in 20 different pub games and just say Hi youll see how sociable and communicative those players you want in ranked will be. Now the only reason they will come play ranked is for the 50% more credit and because it will be just like pubs.

lol, kudos for ‘me - socalizing with friends’ and ‘people i disagree with- stupid insecure loners’. Which part of ‘DUO’ you didn’t get?

Regardless, one can argue that a pure soloqueue mode is the one where teamplay is most rewarded: since teams display less teamplay on average, managing to whip up some emergent teamplay with strangers via voip and friendly atmosphere will be that much more successful. Not sure how much success you are going to have with ‘stupid insecure loners’ though.

It will not be like pubs at all due to the:

  • FRIENDLY FIRE ON
  • no drop in/out attitude (hopefully leavers and ragequitters will be punished enough)
  • ranks and season rewards
  • 5v5 SW format

If you want to play 5v5 with multiple friends: join DBN, or pugs, or hundreds of other ways people managed to find games before matchmaking was in place.

Sorry, no stomping solos for you anymore.

(doxjq) #75

They understand it fine. I think like myself, we’re trying to say this is not the right way to go about it. They could just as easily keep both in there so TO5’s can only find TO5’s, anything less can only find anything less. If they think the pre-made TO5’s are going to stick at competitive and just run around by themselves or with 1 extra now then my answer is this: Get real. No they are not. They will not play at all. It’s literally going to kill the mode for TO5’s and even people like me will not want to play ranked with randoms for the very obvious reasons stated above. People who quit, people who don’t use communication, people who will only do what they want for the sake of being a numpty. All teamwork will be gone. You might boost the community population, but it’s for all the wrong reasons. As neverplayserious says…

It can’t. It’s now double XP pub play. It is not teams, it is not competitive, it is literally randoms running around who you can almost guarantee will not be using voice comms. It is quite literally now just pub play.

Sorry, just getting sick of people trying to say we’re missing the point when we’re not the ones missing the point at all. Boosting numbers to make “competitive” grow does not work when they turn competitive into random to5 pub play.

(Szakalot) #76

They understand it fine. I think like myself, we’re trying to say this is not the right way to go about it. They could just as easily keep both in there so TO5’s can only find TO5’s, anything less can only find anything less. If they think the pre-made TO5’s are going to stick at competitive and just run around by themselves or with 1 extra now then my answer is this: Get real. No they are not. They will not play at all. It’s literally going to kill the mode for TO5’s and even people like me will not want to play ranked with randoms for the very obvious reasons stated above. People who quit, people who don’t use communication, people who will only do what they want for the sake of being a numpty. All teamwork will be gone. You might boost the community population, but it’s for all the wrong reasons. As neverplayserious says…[/quote]

Im pretty sure if teams of 5 were only ever matched with other teams of 5 you would almost never find a game. so people would stop queueing altogether. I imagine SD wanted to ‘force’ at least some of those premaders into trying out the solo/duo mode.

It can’t. It’s now double XP pub play. It is not teams, it is not competitive, it is literally randoms running around who you can almost guarantee will not be using voice comms. It is quite literally now just pub play.

Sorry, just getting sick of people trying to say we’re missing the point when we’re not the ones missing the point at all. Boosting numbers to make “competitive” grow does not work when they turn competitive into random to5 pub play.

there is definitely a high amount of people that are completely clueless about the game. But just because you were shielded from them having only ever queued up with friends, doesn’t mean that it is all that is out there. Since on average, a minlvl10 server has teamwork-minded players (lets disregard how good they are at actually executing good teamplay), you can definitely expect the same on comp. There will be high/low skill and high/low teamplay players. But the only ones who will get to the top are high in both. Should you acquire a rank high enough you can, id expect, find similar, team-oriented players.

(BomBaKlaK) #77

Sorry but all this arguments are not viable to me … we should be able to make a 5 premade and a separate solo queue that’s all ! one or the other solution only is not viable, and this one is the worst ever …

(watsyurdeal) #78

I’d honestly rather have glorified pubbing at this point if it meant I could play actual 5v5 without any bs.

(Szakalot) #79

[quote=“BOMBA;150288”]Sorry but all this arguments are not viable to me … we should be able to make a 5 premade and a separate solo queue that’s all ! one or the other solution only is not viable, and this one is the worst ever …
[/quote]

if there are so many 5x premades, how come its so hard to find the game outside of MM? Wait, I know why, because while you waited for that other premade to queue up, you were able to stomp through countless solos. Too bad.

Multiple times I soloqueued, I’d encounter the same team over and over again. I just played this sunday, and out of 4 games, 3 were with the same premade; in the span of over 3 hours (!)

(watsyurdeal) #80

Look guys, you may not like the reality of the situation, but the truth is without a decent Ranked Mode, this game is doomed to fail.

We NEED a way to get people to play together in a balanced match, in case you haven’t noticed every single day there’s another damn thread about pub balance, and not a single one makes any damn sense. Why should there be essentially matchmaking on pubs when we have a Ranked Mode that’s ready to go?

In time they’ll probably add back 3 player premades, 4 player premades, etc.

Hell they may even add an in game tournament or scrim maker.

But we need to get people playing Dirty Bomb as it was meant to be played first before we can even consider this game having a future outside of releasing new shit every month that literally exists just to make profit.

I say Splash is making the right decision here, they know people want balanced games, so why not make the mode that was supposed to do that in the first fucking place, work as intended?