DEV STREAM ROUND-UP: 11TH APRIL 2016 [Exedore - Lead Game Design]


(Jesus) #81

I’m not threatening anything, if they do that for me the game will become plain shitty and it wont fit me so I’ll just stop playing it no one care and its just a personal opinion that I’m sharing.

MOBA are very different game you can’t compare those to the pubzone of DB no one can join a MOBA match after it started cause they would be late and there is a lvl progression during the match that prevent anyone else to join, If you want to compare DB to MOBA you can as well compare it to card games and RTS.
And copying other game wont make DB successful. Most COD game at the time I played it had a drop in and out system with no penalty (I dont know for the recent one) for public games Battlefield too these games are reference in FPS that are very successful maybe COD is less teambased but BF definitly is. Do people care about a difference of one man in public ? No. Because its a public game.

If Dirty Bomb isnt successful right now there is plenty other reasons for that than the pub system.

Your bad review argument is invalid, why you will ask well go in the steam store and look for the DB page and look at the review they are rather positive and you have to go through several page of review to find a negative one. On top of that Steam reviews indicate the number of hour someone played the game when they review so obviously when someone will read the good review of a 1000h players they will trust it more than the bad review of the guy who didnt even played 100h. If you want an example of reviews that are bad for the game go on Payday 2 page there is people 3000+ hour of game who hour litteraly putting the game in a grave with their review there is nothing like that on DB’s page and this pub system is there for a long time so if bad review had to be published because of it it would be there.


(jollyRacer) #82

@Jesus

The devs are comparing the matchmaking system to MOBAs and CSGO (which is an FPS) and its not just me alone.

Why does the penalty for leaving games bug you so much? How many times do you even leave games in a day, frankly its at most 1-2 for me. So if we were to say that the penalty turns out to be 3-10 minute bans from casual and ranked for leaving, why are you so concerned? Are you leaving 50% of your games, if so, you are not earning exp or credits from those 50% of games that you left, why do you even start the game if you have other important things to do or couldn’t try biting the bullet and win with a lousier team?

Your argument that people do not care about leavers and do not mind playing a 4v5 (example) game is thoroughly invalid. Where are you getting your sample from, who are these “people” ? Are you just gathering these information from your friends? I mean come on, leavers are never appreciated and they ruin games, regardless if its casual or ranked.

Therefore I don’t see a problem with a 3-10minute ban for a game where you leave and left your teammates to die. If you’re telling me that you leave 5 games per day, then hey, you SHOULD be penalized for ruining so many games for people who are actually trying in causal.

Look, if dirtybomb implements this system (which I’m quite sure is already on the way and its not negotiable) Ranked and Casual will be similar, I honestly get that.

However, it will make people go " hey, casual’s basically the same thing as ranked but with less rewards." This could potentially direct the majority of players into ranked matches and hence create a competitive community. Only when the ranked games in Dirtybomb can be matched in less than 10minutes, can you say that DirtyBomb achieved its goal to be a competitive shooter.

When that is achieved, dirtybomb could even come up with Seasonal Clan Wars where it will AGAIN promote competitive gaming and thus create more teams to compete for cash prizes and then be in the limelight.

“This game sucks because they penalize people for leaving in casual matches!”

vs

“This game is bad because you see people leaving all the time and nobody has a gameplan. Ranked takes forever to get into.”

Simple solution to the penalty? Don’t leave and ruin games for others. Even if you do need to leave, its might be just 3-10minutes, don’t being so butt-hurt over it. If you’re joining and leaving games constantly, then sheesh do us all a favor and learn to commit. I don’t believe that you are a player who leaves 50% of the matches you play because honestly, what the point?


(watsyurdeal) #83

There’s no reason to penalize casual match leavers.

It’s absolutely retarded, do you tell your friend if he leaves the soccer game you and his friends are playing, that you’ll stop being his friend? Or some ridiculous thing like breaking his knee caps or whatever, all because he has other things to do? Or doesn’t want to put up with people who aren’t taking the game seriously???

You guys are ridiculous, you want serious games but choose to play casual instead of ranked. You want match balance and balancing based on skill level, yet play casual and ignore ranked.

You want these maps to work with 8v8, ignoring the fact they are MADE for 5v5.

You want mercs to be nerfed or buffed, when they only seem strong because of the chaos of pubs. I can only think of a few legitimately op things right now, and they still haven’t been addressed. Phantom’s Armor, why does a stealth merc need protection when he’s caught? Fletcher’s Stickies, why does he need 3 when at most to kill one person, he’ll need 2? Why does Sparks’ need self heals when she is primarily a long range merc, and getting in close is the ONLY way you can take her down outside of merc specific match ups?

I’m not trying to get into an arugment of merc balance, that’s not my point.

My point IS that I keep seeing the same GOD DAMN things come up, and everyone IGNORES ranked. Like it or not that is this game’s true mode, we need COMMUNITY servers, not this matchmaking bull crap. We are not playing a console shooter dammit, there is no legitimate reason anymore not to have them.


(RedBeard) #84

remove quick join not server browser. Jerks.


(Jesus) #85

[quote=“jollyRacer;168714”]@Jesus

The devs are comparing the matchmaking system to MOBAs and CSGO (which is an FPS) and its not just me alone. [/quote]

O fuck sorry I forgot they were almighty its plain stupid to compare Db with MOBA because in MOBA their is a progression of your character through the match and no one can join because of that progression because otherwise they would feed the ennemies and be more of a weight to the team. Nothing similar to DB. Its completely retarded to compare FPS and MOBA.

[quote=“jollyRacer;168714”]@Jesus
Why does the penalty for leaving games bug you so much? How many times do you even leave games in a day, frankly its at most 1-2 for me. So if we were to say that the penalty turns out to be 3-10 minute bans from casual and ranked for leaving, why are you so concerned? Are you leaving 50% of your games, if so, you are not earning exp or credits from those 50% of games that you left, why do you even start the game if you have other important things to do or couldn’t try biting the bullet and win with a lousier team?
[/quote]

I dont know how many games i leave a day precisely because im free to do so and I have no penalty, I dont count them. No cares about Xp in DB its even bad to get it the more level you have the more the noob expect you to carry them, and no one care about the 200 credits we lose in a game. If we dont enjoy a game we leave that’s it. Thats why people like pubs dont tell me you never did it you would be a liar.

People dont care about leaver cause in 700 hours of gameplay I never saw or heard or read one person telling anything close to leaver are annoying in casual. When someone in casual you most likely dont even notice it unless they put a message in the chat. It happened plenty of time that I just keep on playing and only notice there was missing player when we had 3 man less and usually people join right after which is why it isnt a problem at all.

The drop in drop out system works perfectly well for casual in lots of game. And its not because one game (aka csgo) does it otherwise that this solution is a miracle solution to make the game successful. If the game isnt very successful its certainly not because of the pub mod or the reviews which are in majority good. Matchmaking means Queue time.
Who wants to wait to play a casual match, I’m totally with @Watsyurdeal here, all of this thing you ask for they are in Ranked and thats where they belong yet you ignore that mode.

[quote=“jollyRacer;168714”]@Jesus

However, it will make people go " hey, casual’s basically the same thing as ranked but with less rewards." This could potentially direct the majority of players into ranked matches and hence create a competitive community. Only when the ranked games in Dirtybomb can be matched in less than 10minutes, can you say that DirtyBomb achieved its goal to be a competitive shooter.
[/quote]

Keep dreaming.

Because as I said close to no one ever complained of leavers. And I’m pretty sure a big chunk of the actual playerbase enjoy the liberty offered by casual matches.
If people right now dont want to play ranked (who suffer from an obvious lack of player) why do you think they would want to play casual if it ever becomes the same ?
Hint: they wont. Guess what there is other game in nature there is overwatch who is gonna be in open beta in less than a month.

casual player wont say ohohoh casual is the same as ranked now so i just have to play ranked that i never liked. No they will just ew this is shit and click on exit because thats what everyone does when we dont like something.

Basically you are saying lets remove pub where most of our acquired playerbase is so everyone is forced to play ranked.
If it sounds like a good idea to you let me advise you to never manage a company ever. You dont force your customer to do something like that because it never works unless your brand has a strong identity and comfortable like Apple who can say yay for our next phone youll have to buy all new cables for everything or CSGO in a videa game case. These companies have a solid base of customer established since quite sometime already CSGO isnt the first counter strike.
DB is nothing like that its a game that isnt even out of beta yet at this point you cant do whatever you want and you want to keep the playerbase you managed to acquire.

I also want to point out this wonderful word you put potentially. Let’s risk a big ass chunk of our little playerbase to MAYBE POTENTIALLY put some more player in ranked. You dont see a flaw in that ? Really? You should redo the risk/benefit calcul then.

Nobody eversaid the game is bad because of the leaver in pub. There has been a lot of complaint about leavers in Ranked but I never saw anyone say that in Pub

Simple solution if you dont want people leaving your game and ruining it ?
Play Ranked and not casual and shush about it and do everyone else a favor and let us play casually and leave games as we want. There is a mode for people like you its called Ranked not Pub.
EVERY SINGLE THING you ask is already implemented in this Ranked mode.

Compared to MOBA the disadvantage of a person living is not anywhere close to what it is in DB so there is still no reason to punish leaver in pub.


(Jesus) #86

On a sidenote even if I agree with all you says right now Phantom needs his armor as his sneaky factor is a real fuckin joke he is a black spot moving and doing the noise of a lawnmower.


(Tanker_Ray) #87

Mostly very satisfying QnA.

Should’ve asked about BR-16 nerfs though.

But I don’t think deleting 8 vs 8 is a good idea, and also the first generation loadouts.

Rather than that, perfect.

Please save Thunder and Phantom.

PLEASE.


(Jesus) #88

@stayfreshshoe Is there any plan to have an option of reroll for the Special edition loadout ? Even a paid one to reroll the card we dont like I mean it would be a waste to have made all those skins if we didnt showed them because the loadout we got werent anything usable in my case just today I got 3 Rhino. Gladly enough I got the one with N2O but as you guessed im not gonna use the other two and they’ll sleep there eternally. Is there any plan like that ?


(SereneFlight) #89

I think I can answer that question… ahem… Well, if you don’t like the special loadout card you got, you can always spend all your lottery winnings or parents’ money for elite cases.


(Matuno) #90

I think I can answer that question… ahem… Well, if you don’t like the special loadout card you got, you can always spend all your lottery winnings or parents’ money for elite cases.[/quote]

What about after the event?
Got a few CW cards that I’d never ever use anyway.


(doxjq) #91

Did you even read it? They said the server browser would stay.


(SereneFlight) #92

I think I can answer that question… ahem… Well, if you don’t like the special loadout card you got, you can always spend all your lottery winnings or parents’ money for elite cases.[/quote]

What about after the event?
Got a few CW cards that I’d never ever use anyway.[/quote]
Ummm… Look! TURTLE!


(Jesus) #93

I think I can answer that question… ahem… Well, if you don’t like the special loadout card you got, you can always spend all your lottery winnings or parents’ money for elite cases.[/quote]

I already bought Elite cases and got two proxy this argument is therefor false cause buying elite cases doesnt prevent the doubles. How could it hurt to do that ? I would totally reroll a special card for 100 or even 200k I dont see why this shouldnt be thought about


(jollyRacer) #94

@Jesus

They are comparing it to CS:GO as well, if you haven’t noticed.
Nevertheless, you’re right that MOBA can’t have people joining back into the game and all that stuff about level gaps but then again, when someone leaves and your team is in a 4v5 situation - are you not going to be more susceptible to deaths and failed objectives due to the handicapped situation? Don’t blatantly ignore this part because it weakens your augment. When you have leavers in your team, you will lose out on time whilst attacking and objectives while you’re defending.

Look at this, “I dont know how many games i leave a day precisely because im free to do so”, you give me the impression that if you do record games your left in a day, you’d lose count.
This sort of toxicity needs to go.

“No cares about Xp in DB”
“No one care about the 200 credits we lose in a game.”

You really like to think that you’re representing the whole community when you say these things don’t you? People don’t care about credits? There are threads of people asking how to get more credits to get mercs, cases, event cases and trade-up cost.

You basically contradict yourself when you say “People dont care about leaver cause in 700 hours of gameplay I never saw or heard or read one person telling anything close to leaver are annoying in casual. When someone in casual you most likely dont even notice it unless they put a message in the chat

So you claim to not have seen anyone complain about leavers in your first sentence but then you go on to say that people won’t notice until a message is typed ( which you obviously seen before.) Your claims are so reliable.

“all of this thing you ask for they are in Ranked and thats where they belong yet you ignore that mode.”

Have you not read my posts or are you just blinded by fury because a leave penalty is going to be implemented? This will help user people into ranked and its not that I ignore it, RANKED is dead in most regions and it takes more than 30mins to get into a game. Hence, since nobody wants to play ranked despite the credit boosts, SD decided to change the public matches to a similar format to promote team play and perhaps actual planning.

"casual player wont say ohohoh casual is the same as ranked now so i just have to play ranked that i never liked. " Well for most cases, people don’t have the opportunity to played ranked in the first place due to the ridiculous queue time and yet again, you speak like you’re the community.

“Basically you are saying lets remove pub where most of our acquired playerbase is so everyone is forced to play ranked.”

No, this is not what I’m saying. What I’ve been trying to say all along is that this decision which is made by SD, will help ranked in an indirect manner. I’m not the one who suggested this move and yet you made it sound like its my decision to make my argument weaker. Wow.

Oh and you saying that I shouldn’t manage a company etc - is that even necessary to bring into an argument? If you want to, then yeah you shouldn’t manage anything as well because you make whimsical decisions like,

“oh, turtle instead of aimee? I’m gonna leave, screw you guys!”
or
“Penalty for leavers = dirty bomb in the trash - time to delete”

You sound like a spoilt brat throwing tantrums when things aren’t going your way and you don’t stop to think of the possible good changes that might come out of it.

“I also want to point out this wonderful word you put potentially. Let’s risk a big ass chunk of our little playerbase to MAYBE POTENTIALLY put some more player in ranked. You dont see a flaw in that ? Really? You should redo the risk/benefit calcul then.”

The sole reason why I chose to include the word “potentially” because I am aware that it might not be 100% successful, I did my risk/benefit calculation by saying that this might fail as well. Unlike you, who just comment and say that the game will be in the trash hours after this post has been made. Who’s not doing the calculations here?

Maybe you should embrace change for a bit and not leave the game as the way you like it (which is being able to leave and ruin games for others- how selfish.) and not think of the possible good that this change might bring to the game. You know what you are doing?
Saying NO to change and improvements while you enjoy your ridiculous entitlement to leave games while this game slowly dries up and dies.

CS:GO is successful by doing this and yes they have a huge player base and they’re around for a long time. So, why not try a Winning formula that proves to be successful by other FPS titles?

“Play Ranked and not casual and shush about it and do everyone else a favor and let us play casually and leave games as we want”

The difference between Casual and Ranked is this, you will not feel that much pressure or need to plan a perfect strategy and you won’t lose ranking or points in casual. You can still troll around in casual and who would blame you? They’ll know that its casual and expect people to not take this seriously - running 6 phantoms for example. LEAVING is another issue here, you put former team in a disadvantageous position and no matter what kind of twisted reason you’re about to give, this remains a universal fact.

I’ve mentioned this in every one of my post regarding this issue that the penalty is probably going to be very minimal like a 3-10minutes ban from playing. You leave and cause a bad experience for your fellow players, you pay the price.

3-10minutes can be easily waited out just back tabbing out and watching a video or something. However, this small change will prevent players leaving by a huge %.

Think of this example,

A stall gives away free drinks - probably 200 people go there and collect them because it free
Then the stall decides to charge 50cents for each drink - the number will drastically drop to 50 or even lower for sure.

Likewise,

Game allows people to leave freely - more players will leave because there are no penalties to give them second-thoughts

If the game implements a penalty - much lesser people will leave when its mid-game onwards because, what’s the point? It’s already mid-game, i’m halfway towards my credits and potential case drop and if I leave now, I get banned for 3-10minutes.

Embrace change and stop being so willful. 3-10minutes will deter leavers and hence make the game more enjoyable to play.

Matchmaking in casual will help friends to stay on the same team to play games. It’s a known issue that friends can’t play together in ranked because of the long queue time and in casual because you can’t be in a preset team whilst queuing. This will tackle that issue and bring joy to players who have friends that they want to have fun with.

You’re risking this solution in order to satisfy your selfish and ridiculous needs to leave a game whenever you want to, without repercussions.

If it makes you happy, you can still leave games as much as you like in a day, but just pay the penalty and keep the rooms clean of leavers.


(ClemClem7) #95

The problem is more the “no more drop in” part. We can see this in ranked, less now but still, if a player quit, then he’ll not be replaced. And here is the problem. There is already penalty for leaving in ranked, but some players quit and are not replaced. So if we have a MM, the problem @jollyRacer points out (unbalance due to leavers) will still exists, and it’ll be worse than now.
MM works in Csgo because, due to the playerbase, you only wait few seconds. In DB, you will wait about a minute or 2 and you’ll be put in servers which don’t fit with your ping, or you’ll wait 5minutes to find a server where you can play.


(CCP115) #96

Uhh, dumb question, what on earth is “Casual Matchmaking”?

Does it remove the server browser? Because if it does I’ll be a little bit more than mad.


(bontsa) #97

No.


(Jesus) #98

well firstly your team is never a 4vs5 situation since as of now server are 6vs6 so if you live its still 5vs6 and its still very managable to play likee until someone joins

You are the only one to find people leaving in pub toxic. I never saw a thread about that since Im on the forum. You are speaking of pub like if it was Ranked you speak about 5vs5 and leaving things that were never a problem in PUB.

Well please go ahead do a thread and ask people do you care about the credit you lose when you leave a game ? with a yes or no answer and you’ll see. It’s an easy to say you dont represent the community but thats how the average player thinks and you know it. If it wasnt true then less people would leave huh

I dont contradict myself learn to fucking read. First part means in 700 almost 800 hour I never saw anyone complain

Second part means when someone leave you dont notice it unless they put something like “thats it im out” in the chat of the game. Those two things were never connected dont esstablish connection when there is none

The things of me leaving are just personal opinion expressed somewhere else on the forum what you are doing is called an ad hominem you’re trying to discreditate the opposition to make their argument seems less valid but that was never a valid strategy and you still didnt proved nothing.

You only speak about POSSIBLE things do you leave so far in the teletubbies land that everything works exactly as planned everytime for you because in reality it doesnt.
You want to remove a mode that is liked a lot the way it is to possibly do something with uncertain consequence of what will happen.

Thats exactly people like that were glad of SD removing premade team because “the lack of premade stomp will make people come and there will be lots of people playing ranked together and everything will be perfect” look how it turned half of the pubber they attracted in ranked either leave during the game (which IN RANKED is handicapping) or they are just there for credit and not willing to play the game seriously and it ends up being a stomp. In the end all it did is make it more difficult to find a match because there wasnt that much of an augment in playerbase. People like you are making me crazy laugh if we do that then this this this this and this will happens. What you are advocating is the best scenario possible but also the less likely to happen.

If I said i would probably leave if they released Turtle is because I had and still have other game in sight that will be released between the release of the 2 merc Im gonna play Overwatch and Dark Souls III. Turtle wasnt appealing AT ALL to me and I wouldnt have waited god knows how many month on DB. Who knows when they will release Turtle now I wouldnt want to be a Turtle fan right now.

I dont stop thinking about the possible change that MIGHT comes out of it , keyword might. They just might its totally unsure while the bad changes they are way more probable to happens. You are the utopic people who stop thinking about the bad things these changes would cause.
You are willing to take risks that are way too high for the very little benefit it would bring.
Implement this wouldnt magically make the playerbase grows. I dont even think what you would win in playerbase would be enough to counter the number of people who would stop playing. Im doing my calculations except with this MM thing no on top of being unbalanced you willl be stuck in the match. Ive played countless hours of MOBA and not being able to leave when the game has just no chance to be won at all because your dipshit of a teammate wont surrender is just terrible Its a waste of time you are forced to endure a shitty game. This shouldnt be in Dirty Bomb where I’m still waiting for someone to find a legit problem about the pub system. Implementing this would cause more problem than it would solve

“This will help user people into ranked and its not that I ignore it, RANKED is dead in most regions and it takes more than 30mins to get into a game. Hence, since nobody wants to play ranked despite the credit boosts, SD decided to change the public matches to a similar format to promote team play and perhaps actual planning”

Oh yeah
" oh shit people dont like this format at all they dont play it and there is a massive lackof player there…
-I have a solution lets make the format they like exactly the same so they have no choice"
That sure sounds like a valid reasonning and logic that will totally work, it wont lead
people to ranked it will lead them out. There is plenty of other way that has been suggested on this very forum to make Ranked more attractive. Guess what none of them included transforming pub. When you have one good product and one bad you dont make the good one similar to the bad one for people to use the bad one too. Thats a ridiculous logic.

“3-10minutes can be easily waited out just back tabbing out and watching a video or something. However, this small change will prevent players leaving by a huge %.”

It’s okay no one cares about 10 minute anyways it wont be that important
right after it will prevent leaver by a huge %

You still dont see any flaw in your way of thinking. In MOBA’s people dont want to leave cause everytime you get punished the punishement grows and we are not talking about minutes we are talking about days, week and at some point total ban.

You said it yourself a 3 minute punishement can be waited out no one will care people will still leave useless implementation bravo.

And you are very stuck with your “IT CAUSES A BAD EXPERIENCE TO OTHER PLAYER” thing
while its far from being as damaging as you make it seems. Unless like 3 people leaves on the same team at the same time the impact on the game is still minimal and another player will join in the next 2 minutes. There is probably people leaving and joining that you dont even notice when you plays. This is problem is not nearly as huge as you make it look your taking an icecube you make it an Iceberg thats ridiculous. And your stall example has nothing to do with an online game.

Being able to drop in drop out like that is what makes pub appealing, no more of that no more of pub being appealing. And this playing with friends is another reason you could want to live a game. You come in and then this other team is five lvl 70 friends playing together, totally balanced yeah thats why they are stomping everyone. What you would want to do? leave because this isnt enjoyable to play its just stomping but now you cant because of your fabulous system.

You are making up huge problem and promote false solutions that wont work for it.
But You know what Im done writting walls of text here. Lets just wait, if they do implement ill be more than happy to send you a message week after just to tell you “I told you”.

You act like Im the only guy who likes to leave when he doesnt enjoy the game but this is contradicting with your “leavers are a huge problem” logic. Im not just one selfish guy there is a lot of people who likes the DinDout system and you know it or you wouldnnt be making a fuss here.


(Jesus) #99


You’re risking this solution in order to satisfy your selfish and ridiculous needs to leave a game whenever you want to, without repercussions.

Because thats what a pub match is and should remain. Go play ranked.

RANKED is dead in most regions

Well if people like just stopped complaining and played it would probably less dead;

You know what you are doing?
Saying NO to change and improvements while you enjoy your ridiculous entitlement to leave games while this game slowly dries up and dies.

You know what you are doing ? making problems up and trying to solve them with solution that arrange you but that wouldnt solve anything. The game is dying as much as you’d like it to be to make your argument valid.
Its not improvement, its just nonsense.

You are the one with the flawed logic of
“I couldnt attract people to play the mode I like so now Im gonna force them by making the mode they like the same” I dont even think there is a parallele world where that kind of logic would work


(jollyRacer) #100

“But You know what Im done writting walls of text here. Lets just wait, if they do implement ill be more than happy to send you a message week after just to tell you “I told you”.”

I’m done with writing against someone like you who likes to attack a strawman in every response.

Yeah, send me a sweet message when this gets implemented and you decide to delete the game, I look forward to your absence.