Death of bunnyhopping ?

(madness) #141

bunnyhopping doesn’t give you kills, your aim does. And when you bunnyhop, your aim is worse.

Unless you are playing agaisnt bots or total noobs…

(signofzeta) #142

ah whatever, the only thing I’m focused on, is not to add anything, or take away anything from the game, so that it does not get delayed.

(z00b) #143

Two pence …

Bunnyhopping is ridiculous and above all else just looks stupid. I remember playing Quake 2 when you HAD to bunnyhop to build up speed, and the constant ongoing grunting sound. That sound was played more than any other sound in the game, and to someone listening it sounded completely lame. Sure, use headphones.

I think the final word on bunnyhopping is the “Mine 2” video for BF2. That is completely on target. Bunnyhopping, prone spamming, ‘trick jumping’, macros that macro you into orbit and fly down killing everyone in the vicinity with your Crazy Shock Paddle-Fu add nothing to the game and are to be prevented at any cost.

Make a ‘hardcore gamer’ FPS game where all of this is valid so that everyone who likes it can go play that game. To me these games are for fun, should be pretty easy to play, and require a little thought and a lot of teamwork to be successful at. Circa 2007 I can do without the ‘MadSkillzOnCrackNowWithMoreADD’ gameplay basis.

(SCi-Fi) #144

Lets no spoil a game that makes everyone look like a macro noob, were
here to fight not act like a flea on billy whizz!!

(Brinkman) #145

bunny hopping looks ridiculous and is a ridiculous feature that shouldn’t be implemented

/thread

(signofzeta) #146

Rick loves bunnyhopping. You know why? Because he is RICKdiculous.

(murka) #147

i luv it too but etqw will have new features like vehicle tricks that ill be learning ASAP

(moonShield) #148

I love qw/q2/q3/q4/et/wsw tricking (any kind of tricking, even cube’s one^^), but i wouldnt have any problems without. Playerspeed in etqw seems like et’s (faster than q4?:P), so it wont be that slow. And you’ll have vehicles. And its from SD ffs!^^

(Flesh) #149

You shouldnt be talking about wether bunnyhoping is good or bad for games in general becouse its a very subjective matter.

You should accept that bunnyhoping does not belong in a team fps. It never did it never will. It puts too much enphasis on idividual skills and gives advantage to playing solo over playing in a group as a team. If you think Im wrong then go talk to SD, the professionals who intetionaly removed it from their game.

(B0rsuk) #150

I see it this way:

sprinting and bunnyhopping serve pretty much the same purpose. They let you move faster if you sacrifice your ability to shoot. (aim is very bad in mid-air).
What makes sprinting better is that it doesn’t damage your right mouse button and doesn’t look very silly. And I mean this level of silliness:

(moonShield) #151

Ever played Team Fortress?
Bunnyhopping speeds up a game, but doesnt change gameplay that much. Bad balancing does. It got removed in some games to keep them newb friendly, not for teamplay.

(SCDS_reyalP) #152

Yes because all the fortress mods with bunny hopping (including Q3F, made by… SD) were terrible team games. Just like RTCW, ET (also made by SD), and the various quake CTF mods were all about individual skill. Skiing completely ruined the team play in tribes too.

And remember folks: Moving quickly clearly precludes thinking.

(Flesh) #153

Didnt play fortress mods and I never said they are terrible, in fact Im shure they are quiet lovely. Did you by any chance notice that Q3F is based on a deathmatch game? Maybe thats why it had bunnyhopping? Gimme me an example of any recent team fps with such feature. I played counterstrike and battlefield. No bunnyhopping. Great team play. I guess they dont need it? When SD made ET, which is basicly mod for RTWC, they had little choice about bunnyhopping becouse the game was already designed around it. In QW they have a choice. They decided to remove it. If bunnyhopping belongs in team fps then why is it removed? I think SD are following the example of other successful team shooters.

Btw, just to be clear, I never said it doesnt take skill to do bunnyhopping and strafejumping. In fact I support other fps games using them in future. Just as long as they are not team fps.

(SCDS_reyalP) #154

I just did. Q3F, like all the fortress games/mods, is a team game. NOT a deathmatch mod. Which you would know, if you had played it.

The fact that Q3F used the q3 engine is irrelevant. It is a completely different game than Q3. The physics that supports strafe jumping is entirely in gamecode, which is available for mods to change. RTCW and ET also deliberately kept some strafe jumping. They could have removed them, but decided not too. ISTR a comment in the code that suggests they chose to give a large spread when jumping instead.

I’ll reserve my judgment on ET:QW till I’ve actually seen what they have done with it. I suspect a few people here may be jumping to conclusions based on comments from people who played an unfinished version for a short time.

Btw, just to be clear, I never said it doesnt take skill to do bunnyhopping and strafejumping. In fact I support other fps games using them in future. Just as long as they are not team fps.

I don’t understand why you insist that fast, skilled movement is bad for teamplay. Especially given the number of very good examples combining both.

(fart666) #155

[quote=“Flesh”]

Didnt play fortress mods and I never said they are terrible, in fact Im shure they are quiet lovely. Did you by any chance notice that Q3F is based on a deathmatch game? Maybe thats why it had bunnyhopping? Gimme me an example of any recent team fps with such feature. I played counterstrike and battlefield. No bunnyhopping. Great team play. I guess they dont need it? When SD made ET, which is basicly mod for RTWC, they had little choice about bunnyhopping becouse the game was already designed around it. In QW they have a choice. They decided to remove it. If bunnyhopping belongs in team fps then why is it removed? I think SD are following the example of other successful team shooters.

Btw, just to be clear, I never said it doesnt take skill to do bunnyhopping and strafejumping. In fact I support other fps games using them in future. Just as long as they are not team fps.[/quote]

…dont do a and never b just c will prove you right and maybe d has some impact but since we are talking about e f will make it clear for you that g was never intended to confirm h as a possibility.

(Flesh) #156

I did not say that Q3F had bunnyhopping becouse of q3 engine. I ment that Q3F adopted bunnyhopping becouse, as a mod, it was based on quake3 which also uses bunnhopping. I suppose it was considerd good for team gameplay since it worked fine in a deathmatch game.

I don’t understand why you insist that fast, skilled movement is bad for teamplay. Especially given the number of very good examples combining both.

So what other team game is useing bunnyhopping? Dont say ET becouse the sequel of ET is haveing bunnyhopping removed.

(SCDS_reyalP) #157

Q3F is a total conversion, and owes more to previous fortress games than to Q3. There have been Q3 total conversions which removed bunny hopping.

You also still haven’t explained why fast skilled movement is bad for teamplay, or how q3f, tribes, rtcw, et, urban terror etc. managed to be good team games while retaining it.

Given that you haven’t played many of these games, it’s hard to see how you’ve reached the conclusion that their particular movement system was bad for teamplay.

(B0rsuk) #158

Oh, come on. A lot of things were implemented in Team Fortress not because it was clever, but because of inertia. It all comes from Quake .

Scout/Recon has Shotgun and Nailgun , which work exactly the same as Nailgun and Shotgun in Quake.
Other weapons simply copied from Quake include: Double Shotgun, Grenade Launcher, Super Nailgun, Rocket Launcher.
By the way, Caltrops were introduced because original flashbang grenade could be countered with certain cvars. Q3F had flashbang grenades (that was the original idea), but TFC for some reason went with caltrops.
A lot of things in game design happens simply because of inertia and because designers aren’t going to try something new. Even if it means that gasp some features may suddenly start being used. For example, many Team Fortress mods implemented medic healing only in melee range. Fast action, omnipresent grenades and rocket launchers meant that it was very risky to heal someone. Most people didn’t bother.

If you really think that the most popular ideas are the best ones, go ahead and make a mod that adds stun grenade jumps to ET:QW. In most if not all TF mods you can do ridiculously huge jumps using stun grenades. Don’t ask me why.

(SCDS_reyalP) #159

None of which negates the fact that TF mods were successful team games.

I’m not saying TF is the best game ever, or that ET:QW should copy it, or that the various TF mods didn’t borrow from their parent games. I’m just trying to get Flesh to justify his claim that fast skilled movement like bunny hopping, strafe jumping and skiing is somehow detrimental to teamwork and only belong in DM games. This is quite puzzling given his own admission that he hasn’t actually played any TF games.

(Flesh) #160

Exactly. It was added becouse of inertia. Not becouse ppl just knew that bunnyhopping suits a team game. It seemd to work in deathmatch, then why not put it in team game as well? In other words - it was an experiment.
However, with years of development, team shooters have became a genre of their own. Not just some mod to a deathmatch or a game imitateing quake gameplay. Team shooters have their specific gameplay and bunnyhopping is being left out. The fact that this practice is so successful and accepted amongst gamers is good indication that this feature is pretty much redundant in team games. A failed experiment, to conclude, it belongs in deathmatch.
Finaly, Im not saying that all team games with bunnyhopping are bad. Im just saying that for the team part of the game it is better to desing it without the bunnyhopping part. This has been proved by practice and after all this is what SD is planning to do.

If you want to know what I think is the reason for this case, then read my post on previous page so I dont have to quote myself.