The area where the subway and university will go is pretty much already flat? The bottom of the city blocks are flat. The bottom of the university is also flat. Shuffling them about isn’t likely to require huge terrain model changes, and the only megatexture changes I can foresee is the projectors which paint the roads.
Construction Community Map Dev Thread
hozz
(hozz)
#42
Regarding the Uni, I just had some ideas. Not sure how much you (mainly shiro) are willing to change so you can ignore them if you don’t like them or it’s too different or stupid in another way 
Just ideas.
Good about Uni:
the auditorium with it’s slope makes great gameplay and just fits there perfectly in atmosphere. It also connects 2 levels with back entrances etc. This offers much gameplay and should be expanded.
The halls around it can have good fights and are looking rly nice
Bad about Uni:
rather random design, no fights there (due to other reasons outside) but also not much potential for fights due to layout (open courtyard makes you die outside)
So: less randomness, more structure = good. The idea is to split the Uni into auditorium and “rest” more obviously in terms of gameplay and look.
The idea is to have a much bigger auditorium with some cover (seat rows e.g.) for the xmit, so more and better fighting can occur there. Also the auditorium is “buried” and turned 180°, so the main entrance is at the top of the slope, not at the bottom like now.
At the bottom, behind the xmit, there are additional underground rooms. Those can be connected via tunnels, e.g. one coming from the direction of the GDF base giving GDF an underground route to the objective (maybe surface is spammed by cyclops); another tunnel could originate somewhere from the courtyard in front/side of the Uni giving Strogg an underground attack route. Just a Uni underground level. Maybe even with difficult but direct subway connection 
This would allow having the open yard but still a possibility to get to the xmit sideways like now when you enter the uni side entrance but die on the way because everything is so open.
The rest is imagination.
This probably sounds very confusing so some pictures:
- Glorious paint scheme of auditorium: click (just realized it does not show the 180° rotation :o, see next pic)
- Editor mockup. top view (red = ground level entrances, green = possible underground entrances) and 3D (brown = underground): click
*A photo of the outside of my uni. You can clearly identify the auditorium (cylindrical part on front). It is entered from the inside, opposite direction of viewpoint, on ground level. the lower curved building on the “front” of it are back rooms.
image,
floor plan scheme, the audi is on the right side (just for orientation),
some images of the inside for inspiration,
shitty image, another building, but the cylindrical auditorium can be clearly seen on the lower left part (silver UFO),
*a photo of one similar auditorium. notice how big it is and the cover possibilities (LOL ETQW vs real life :D). the wall behind the pedestal (xmit) is actually movable. behind it, there are back rooms where e.g. physics experiments can be prepared. those rooms can be exited via underground tunnels too (in case of fire blocking the upper main exit near viewpoint). You could cleverly connect back rooms with a uni underground level and everything else you want.
click
Following the discussion it’s probably way too much to change/rebuild, but I’ll still post it for fun 
Looking forward to see how you will change distances and spawns.
SebaSOFT
(SebaSOFT)
#43
Too many chairs would slow the performance of the room IMHO. But shiro, feel free to do those changes suggested by hozz as you prefer, he event sketched something in the editor, nice. Shirosae, the uni is yours, it’s your call.
shirosae
(shirosae)
#44
No worries, I’m generally fairly open about spitballing ideas.
[QUOTE=hozz;207263]Good about Uni:
the auditorium with it’s slope makes great gameplay and just fits there perfectly in atmosphere. It also connects 2 levels with back entrances etc. This offers much gameplay and should be expanded.
The halls around it can have good fights and are looking rly nice
Bad about Uni:
rather random design, no fights there (due to other reasons outside) but also not much potential for fights due to layout (open courtyard makes you die outside)
So: less randomness, more structure = good. The idea is to split the Uni into auditorium and “rest” more obviously in terms of gameplay and look.[/quote]
The vast majority of the time I spent designing the university was spent trying to find a way to link the auditorium to the rest of the building in a way that made the two-level thing work without feeling unnatural.
I actually rebuilt the whole thing three or four times, and I think it kinda works now.
Nothing was random really, it’s more that I’ve got little experience designing with the FPS needs in mind (I am a reasonable designer, but that’s from designing proper real life buildings, so there’s a certain degree of conflict going on every time I try to plot stuff out), so it’s something I’d need to iterate through a few maps until I get a better feel for it.
I think the biggest mistake I made was that I made the actual building much smaller than it needed to be, so I kinda restricted myself into having a set of vertical shafts connected by linear corridors.
I quite like the initial atrium area when you first go in, and the auditorium right next to it. If I did it again, I’d probably open up the corridor immediately to the left so it’s more open like the two-level area at the end of Salvage.
I did try this twice, but couldn’t find a way to fit multiple level entrances into the design, because it meant essentially circling the auditorium in corridors so all sides were accessible.
The problem with doing that is that those tunnels would be very, very long, and the last thing the map needs is more long distance routes. That said, if the subway and university get moved the way I want them to, the back side of the university wouldn’t be too far off the route from the proposed new GDF base, so I could perhaps have some loading bay or something leading into it. I dunno, I’ll need to see how the map evolves before I know whether it’s possible.
[QUOTE=hozz;207263]
Following the discussion it’s probably way too much to change/rebuild, but I’ll still post it for fun
Looking forward to see how you will change distances and spawns.[/QUOTE]
I’m fairly open to changes, as I say, because there’s no point making a map if you’re going to spend all that effort and not do the extra it takes to make it not suck. I think for the moment I’ll concentrate on doing the courtyard area outside to complete the infantry stuff in the area I’m responsible for. Thanks for the message though, I’ll bear it in mind when I see where stuff ends up being.
hozz
(hozz)
#45
@shiro
Yep sorry, I did not intend to hijack your work somehow. It’s just that the current rearrangement discussion + your own criticism of the uni gameplay made my mapping drive itch 
So it’s really just some ideas i had.
I see how the 2 level entrance thing really is difficult to get working. The real problem is outside anyway, if the uni is closer to the brain and maybe opened up a little (more spaces to fight), fighting will occur there.
@all
Looking forward to see your results people. As the “good” parts of the map (consite, subway, uni) are working great (I especially like the underground mall).
ETQW 4 ever!:stroggbanana:
wishlist: some ladders onto Don’s building for sniping and counter-sniping (this includes RLs :D). I always thought it would be cool to explore the city more during the game.
Chris2
(.Chris.)
#46
Think the uni as whole would be better used if it was mirrored with the transmit room on opposite side so when strogg approach from the subway exits they more likely to go through the building where the GDF currently enter, if that made any sense.
shirosae
(shirosae)
#47
Yeah, I was thinking that. I’m hoping that if the GDF home base is moved to the south-east corner and the subway exits are east by north-east of the university (and much closer obviously), than that’ll essentially do a virtual mirror since everyone is coming from the opposite north/south direction, if you see what I mean.
Stroggafier
(Stroggafier)
#48
What you are suggesting, @shirosae, is to coordinate the key points of the map then proceed to change the other geometry and lay down the remaining map elements. To me, this sounds like the basics of the much needed coordination/integration that is needed whenever a project is developed in separate parts. Its a necessary step and a good idea, of course.
shirosae
(shirosae)
#49
Urgh.
You know that point where you’ve spent a few hours on something and it’s kinda starting to gravitate together, and you suddenly lose all confidence in it and want to start again?
More piccies: http://tangential-lemonade.net/etqw/consite/
light_sh4v0r
(light_sh4v0r)
#50
Funny how you did allign all the rotated textures, but not the easy straight ones
Looks good imo, no need to start again just yet, I think you can have some great fights in there!
shirosae
(shirosae)
#51
There was one weird compiler thing where I think it joined some tris and it screwed up a wood texture I think.
The rest is 'cause I laid it out, then did a load of moving stuff back and forwards like lego bricks (so the curved bits got copied after I did the textures), but the square bits were just brushed in quickly.
Donnovan
(Donnovan)
#52
The city area is not plane, the blocks are plane but have different heights. I do not use projectors for the road, it was done with textures + masks.
The actual blocks are plane, so all original detail we had on it was gone.
WhiteAden
(WhiteAden)
#53
[QUOTE=Donnovan;207477]The city area is not plane, the blocks are plane but have different heights. I do not use projectors for the road, it was done with textures + masks.
The actual blocks are plane, so all original detail we had on it was gone.[/QUOTE]
I think projectors (thus real road textures) would be really good for Consite… it’s supposed to be urban, not dirt roads =)
Donnovan
(Donnovan)
#54
The map is situated on a dense urban area, Rio de Janeiro, but it have noting to do with it, not only because roads, buildings also have nothing to do with Rio. MAp have noting to do with Rio. Hehe!
It’s ConsiteLandia!!!
WhiteAden
(WhiteAden)
#55
[QUOTE=Donnovan;207484]The map is situated on a dense urban area, Rio de Janeiro, but it have noting to do with it, not only because roads, buildings also have nothing to do with Rio. MAp have noting to do with Rio. Hehe!
It’s ConsiteLandia!!![/QUOTE]
but still it’d make sense to use projectors and have real, tarmac roads
no stress… ps. if you don’t mind, include this image, smaller ofcourse in the map, lol
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e164/McGoose/Strogg-friendly-restroom.jpg
Stroggafier
(Stroggafier)
#56
Has anyone spelled out the exit criteria for completing this project? i.e. how will you know when you’re done and how will y’all agree you’re done?
SebaSOFT
(SebaSOFT)
#60
LOL Chris, you can certainly bet that the map will have rants…
Shirosae: I wouldn’t count on an subway exit at the courtyard, I can’t do such thing without yet another long walkway, in the picture I show you in yellow how far can I get, and that’s pretty near the new location of the University, so your comment abour getting out closer to the uni have been fullfilled.
