Confused about selecting character

(H0RSE) #121

not a best bodytype, a best set of bodytypes and not necessarily a best set of bodytypes all the time, but there will be a best set of bodytypes for each map and every competitve team will use it unless competitve leagues ban the best, then there will be a best set for each map that isn’t banned and they will all use that.

You still are not selling me this idea of yours…A best bodytype(s) for each map? This would imply that there would be no better way to complete objectives, navigate the map, survive, kill, etc. and there would be no better way to counter these bodytypes, than with the another set of “best” body types?

So offense and defense will develop a “best” body type, team setup for every map, and the “best” set of skills to go along with them, regardless of what class they play or what strategy the opposing team implements? That’s a pretty bold speculation - that you you think the game would be designed in such a way, and that you think SD would let a loophole like this slip through. Even if what you say did happen, it would only be a matter of time before it was patched.

in your pub playstyle, you might not be concerned with it, and your teamates might not be, but that will just put you at a disadvantage against pub teams that actually know of it and do it.

I won’t need to be concerned with it, because it’s not going to happen. There may be situations where a certain body type may make things easier, but there is not going to a “best,” simply due to the fact that different players play differently. You may excel at playing Medium while another person does better with Heavy. If body types and skills were based solely on stats and/or dice rolls, this theory of yours might hold true, but since the ultimate underlying factor that determines how successful (or not) a body type or build is, will be player skill, the “best” will simply be what works for each player.

Even if this “best body type” theory came to pass, and ran rampant among the community and didn’t get patched - that’s what bot matches are for.

(SebaSOFT) #122

For me

[ul]
[li]bodytype = kind of personal decision based on how you move/weaponry[/li][li]abilities build = personal decision for pubs, team strategy for private/clan games[/li][li]class = team strategy for pubs and clan games. Selfish do whatever they want[/li][/ul]

just my :eek::eek: cents

(tokamak) #123

Since when shouldn’t pub teams have an advantage for organising themselves? If there were ever a best combination of body types, then that would be a great incentive to team up.

It’s the same as in WoW, certain class combinations are very powerful. The people who team up to get these combinations have an advantage over random teams, as it should be.

(H0RSE) #124

the “best” body type/build, comes into play by chance. Like the combination your team has, happens to work really well against the opposition. It there was a “cookie cutter best,” like Atavax is talking about, and teams used these setups per map like he said, their very existence would make them not the best, since enemy team wouldn’t be comprised of “mediocre” builds for which the "best"to excel against. They would be going up against the same and/or body types/builds used to counter them, rendering them all on equal ground and making no one “best.”

(Senethro) #125

It won’t be player skill, it’ll be terrain. Good players tend to be good at more than one thing, so it’ll come down to how the terrain favours what proportions of skirmishing or slugging bodytypes.

Even if this “best body type” theory came to pass, and ran rampant among the community and didn’t get patched - that’s what bot matches are for.

Noone respond to this! Just let it stand.

This is a bad thing.

(tokamak) #126

Utilising terrain is skill as well.

(H0RSE) #127

Exactly. Regardless of what the terrain is, or what it “favors,” players will still be able to be just as successful, regardless if they choose the straightforward approach (heavy body) or jumping from rooftops and/or climbing terrain.

This is a bad thing.

You are missing the point of my post. The “best” build would come into play by chance, because the teammates you are working with happen to be good playing with their setups against the opposition, not simply because the body types the chose are “better,” but rather because they are better at using them.

(tokamak) #128

I have difficulty imagining a typical terrain situation where one bodytype is favoured. There’s no good or bad type, there’s only good and bad ways to play them.

(Atavax) #129

[QUOTE=H0RSE;250787]You still are not selling me this idea of yours…A best bodytype(s) for each map? This would imply that there would be no better way to complete objectives, navigate the map, survive, kill, etc. and there would be no better way to counter these bodytypes, than with the another set of “best” body types?

So offense and defense will develop a “best” body type, team setup for every map, and the “best” set of skills to go along with them, regardless of what class they play or what strategy the opposing team implements? That’s a pretty bold speculation - that you you think the game would be designed in such a way, and that you think SD would let a loophole like this slip through. Even if what you say did happen, it would only be a matter of time before it was patched

I won’t need to be concerned with it, because it’s not going to happen. There may be situations where a certain body type may make things easier, but there is not going to a “best,” simply due to the fact that different players play differently. You may excel at playing Medium while another person does better with Heavy. If body types and skills were based solely on stats and/or dice rolls, this theory of yours might hold true, but since the ultimate underlying factor that determines how successful (or not) a body type or build is, will be player skill, the “best” will simply be what works for each player.

Even if this “best body type” theory came to pass, and ran rampant among the community and didn’t get patched - that’s what bot matches are for.[/QUOTE]

correct in offense and defense developing the best body type combination for team setup on ever map. what will be the “best” set of skills might be up personal choice. bodytypes have a drastic effect on how a team can work together. there will be the best way for the team to work together in the game that might be slightly different on each map; so that they can cover each other’s weaknesses, sets of skills will help you personally do your role, but they won’t define your role like bodytype will. yes, you may excel at playing a heavy and another may excel at playing a med, and someone else may excel at playing a light. The decent teams won’t be a random array of people playing the bodytypes they excel at, it will be a group of players that excel at a very specific combination of bodytypes, some may even have to excel at multiple bodytypes for the different demands of each map.

if you have any experience in any shooter playing at a remotely competitive level, you would know there really is nothing you can do about it. there will be ideal group setups formed and the only way for there to be differences at high levels of play is if you unlock bodytypes so that teams can utilize the element of surprise without being penalized for the entire length of a match with a inferior build.

(Atavax) #130

a compromise would be a limit… like 4 bodytype changes per match.

(tokamak) #131

A compromise would be to leave other options like class and gear open to be changed in-field at command posts whenever you want.

(Atavax) #132

even in a best case scenario where there are multiple viable bodytype combinations and strategies; there are two possibilities, either the differences are trivial enough where they don’t force the other team to react and the differences are pointless, or they are drastic enough where they counter one another, and its dumb luck in a competitive setting whether the other team picked a bodytype combination that counters yours or if yours counters theirs. The only way you can have choices on bodytypes that matter and that don’t result in advantages from pure dumb luck is if you can make the choices on bodytypes as reactions to enemy behavior.

(tokamak) #133

Who counters a light bodytype anyway? The whole argument about countering bodytypes just rests on nothing. There are only two specialist bodytypes, how the hell does one trump the other?

(.Chris.) #134

Situation.

(H0RSE) #135

The only way you can have choices on bodytypes that matter and that don’t result in advantages from pure dumb luck is if you can make the choices on bodytypes as reactions to enemy behavior.

The reactions to enemy behavior, comes from good players knowing how to utilize the choice they made (body type) to their fullest potential, not just changing things around when the “going gets tough.”

It’s funny that a lot of the competitive crowd on here, always seems to point out things about Brink that makes it “noob friendly” - no dedicated nade buttons, voip off by default, no strafe jumping, ironsights, no weapon banks, etc. But then body types comes along, and suddenly there is a feature that is so important and gamebreaking, that not having an option to change it around in-game is detrimental to gameplay - like the option to lock body types is too “hardcore.”

Using this comp gamer mindset, do you really thing SD would lock a feature, in a game that is supposed to be the “gateway drug” to playing online? A game that is supposed to cater to a broader audience, including people who don’t play online, along with enticing people who don’t necessarily enjoy shooters, to play shooters. Do you really think they would implement bodytypes and lock them, if choosing the “wrong” one would cause mass frustration and spell the difference between victory and defeat? Do you really think that bodytypes will be such a pivotal decision, that those who choose a specific bodytype on a specific map, will always have the upper hand? Seems like the concerned, competitive crowd, cry “noob friendly” or “dumbed down” on so many things, and then body types comes along, and they want them to be more noob friendly.

Bodytype = playstyle, and as long as players choose the one that compliments them the best (couple with overall player skill) there is never going to be a “wrong” choice. It is the skill of the player (or lack of) that makes a body type the “right” or “wrong” choice.

(Atavax) #136

i didn’t suggest one bodytype trumps another. one strategy thats optimized by a set of bodytypes trumps another strategy thats optimized by another set of bodytypes, assuming there isn’t just one viable strategy for each map for defense and offense.

(tokamak) #137

Then it´s the strategies that trump each other, not the bodytypes. As it should be.

(Crytiqal) #138

I’ll make my character like chuck norris and beat you all cause that is the best bodytype

(Atavax) #139

you don’t think that strategies won’t be affected by whether you have 8 heavies or 8 lights? obviously how mobile you and your teamates are and how much damage each of you are can take, and what type of weapons each of you can use is going to need to be part of any decent strategy.

(tokamak) #140

Of course the strategies will be affected, that’s the whole point!