Concerned about skill in ET:QW..

(sifnt) #1

Dear Splashdamage,

I’m writing this post because as someone who’s been into the whole gaming scene for some time I’m starting to become seriously concerned about ET:QW’s level of ‘skill’ and consequently its lasting appeal, fun and if its actually rewarding to play.

Before I get into my concerns heres a little bit about my history in gaming so you can understand my point of view and the angle I come from.

I started off playing online games about 4 years ago, and I’ve been the leader of a fairly well performing clan (Regiments Khaos) since RtCW was released. We generally finished 4th or so in our local competitions and recently finished 1st in the Australian / New Zealand GameArena Ladder.

Through my gaming career, both in the servers and speaking to various people outside the servers I’ve come across a variety of views from a variety of gamers.

I don’t advocate that a game should be purely aim based, I recognize that some players are really good at timing weapons, some players are very good at playing sneaky, some players are very good at controlling their movement in a game while when it comes to aim some players have ‘twitch aim’, while some players are better at ‘tracking’ just like some players prefer weapons that are single shot, burst or just full automatic (aka spray and pray).

I’ve played a number of different roles in different games, in RtCW I really enjoyed being a soldier with a venom, in ET I’m pretty much always a Rambo medic as I love the aim and the strafing around. I also play BF2 as something different, but I only fly planes for my clan since the ground combat is completely and utterly devoid of any skill whatsoever.

Actually the whole of BattleField 2 is completely bug ridden and messed up, and after playing it and realizing that virtually everyone I talked to shared similar beliefs to mine; the game had so much potential and messed it up so badly.

Playing BF2 has also made me have a bit more faith in ET:QW, realizing that no matter how hard you tried, no matter how many marketing people told you to release it instead of fixing the bugs, or how many people said effects were more important than skill you’d still do a better job than EA did with BF2.

Now, I don’t know whether you’ll agree with me or not, but for a game to be fun to play it has to have a learning curve, and it has to reward skill in an environment that’s fun. I guess that’s a pretty basic definition that it’s pretty hard to disagree with.

Obviously the original ET was rushed to market because it was a free game so naturally a lot of balance issues weren’t fixed, however again I think we can all agree that if it wasn’t for ETpro and the tremendous effort by Bani, Rain, Zinx and the rest of the team ET wouldn’t be where it is today. Out of the box there were too many bugs and balance issues that made the game un-fun because the game was hurriedly finished as a free product.

So recognizing that BF2 had potential but seriously messed it up, and recognizing that ET:QW needs to reward all the major types of skill instead of just being a ‘newb’ fest with fancy graphics as some people in the ET community seem to think it will be.
And naturally the game needs to have a learning curve (mainly for pubs), so I’m wondering to what degree you guys are interested in rewarding skill and what kind of things are being done?

For example, I read over at http://etqw.gamersnation.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=435 that:

“To start, Wedgwood spent some time showing off animations for one of the GDF characters. With a pistol, the player is able to walk slowly, with sidearm raised, as well as from a crouched position. Jogging, the player will lower his weapon slightly, and full-out running will cause the character to brace his weapon against his chest.�

This was one of the big mess-ups EA did in BF2, and one of the things that was pretty close to perfect in ET. For players that don’t use a joystick to aim (ok, you should have to use a joystick if you wanna be a good pilot, but you get my drift), putting limits on their movements instead of supporting movement, aim and trick jumping is going to be a serious damper on the enjoyment.

I’ve played ET since it came out for my clan, and since its been so long people are starting to lose interest in it and put their hopes on ET:QW.

Another thing is the accuracy of the weapons in BF2, they’re seriously inaccurate. At least while your moving, and to add insult to injury the anti lag is about as random as everything else in the game.

You should be able to move and hit people easily while moving, the game should reward those players that want to stand still (snipers) and those that want to make themselves hard to hit while hitting others. And once again one of the reasons people are getting sick of BF2 is because EA didn’t realise this.

Originally I didn’t like the idea of ET:QW having vehicles either, but after having played bf2 I definitely think they can work as long as vehicles are ‘an extra’ element to the game, not something that governs the game.

For example if you’re a foot soldier, regardless of your weapon, you should be able to kill a tank just like you can in ET. It’s just a lot harder and the tank may have a 1-10 chance of killing you if you don’t have the right weapon and it’s in a good spot, but you should still be able to kill the driver.

And that should be the same thing with any vehicle, if someone’s accurate enough to hit the pilot in a jet as it flies past they should be rewarded with a kill. Sure, its not realistic but if you guys wanted to make a realistic game you’d just release a movie of a nuclear weapon going off, or maybe let people run around for a few seconds before it goes off because that’s what a realistic war simulator would involve now a days and especially into the future.

I’m also a little bit concerned reading that you guys want to make your aerial vehicles easy to fly, sure its extremely irritating in BF2 when some complete idiot crashes the transport chopper because they cant fly, but I guess when it comes to transport vehicles specifically they should be hard to crash on public servers.

BUT, when it comes to vehicles that can actually do damage, such as the futuristic helicopter / plane in ET:QW the last thing you want to do is let idiots that couldn’t hit an elephant in a door way with a machine gun standing 2 metres away get kills.

Everyone wants to ‘fly’ in games because it sounds cool, but if you let people fly easily you end up with massive que for the vehicles like in BattleField. You also get killed by idiots that you could easily kill on the ground because they’ve made flying too easy in bf2.

I’ve noticed in bf2 when there are 1-2 skilled pilots on one team the other team gives up trying to use their planes after awhile, while when the game started there were up to 5 people going for each plane. I think that’s exactly how ET:QW could balance things out best, by making people realize that it takes serious practice to fly any vehicle that’s good at killing other vehicles or infantry, while holding the pilot accountable to people on the ground that can aim / time their shots.

If you are still reading this thank you for your time and I hope I haven’t come across as being negative. I just enjoy ET a lot and hate so many things about bf2 (yet I still play it :/) that I couldn’t bear having the game I’m looking forward to end up like it.

So looking forward to playing a well balanced out ET:QW on an updated engine that allows a new level of diverse strats. :smiley:

P.S.
Its 2AM here and I’m tired, so forgive me if my rant doesn’t quite make sense at times, I just came of a bf2 pub and need to get some sleep for uni.

Regards,

[RoK.Sifnt]
www.rokmaens.com

(ParanoiD) #2

Just a great post!

ET:QW wont be like ET a game where you just walk fast. Were 3 years ahead in the gaming world so there should be improvement. In ETQW everything will be balanced i guess, so a heavier gun and u walk slower. Guns could also be more inaccurate while walking as you mention as it happens to be in bf2. But this will make the game as it will be. The maps will be designed for 24-32 players so 12-16 a team. This means that you could make 2 or 3 squads to acomplish objectives. Add 2 ppl in a plane and some1 going all alone sneaking. I guess in teh first weeks ppl will try to rambo, but will see that you need to work as a team. You can always call for support in your team. Just make sure you have various classes in your squad and take a tank with it. Everybody can help a little to kil the enemy, its not like Et just go go go and kill as amny as you can. ET:QW will be more like, come team! lets go and support each other. Teamwork is the word here just like in ET. You get more xp for spotting something or blowing up an objective than killing your enemy.

About the planes etc, vehicles will be easy to handle when starting, when you gain more xp you will get less help from the cpu but this makes u more free to do what you want with it. And unlike BF2, a person could call in a tank at anyplace and not just at the spawn points of those vehicles. This means you could get a tank in teh middle of the jungle while all ur teammates were killed. You were the only one surviving while you did hide. Now you call in a tank to get away fast and the tank makes you stronger as well on your own. Also a lonely soldier wont be dead when facing a jeep or something like that. Ive read that you can just shoot a whell from it so the jeep is unusable and its only 1v1.

(kamikazee) #3

Before someone reacts on this: they’re still balancing it to avoid abuse.
But I like the sound of it.

(Joe999) #4

question: is it interesting to read that first post? i skipped it because of suspicion of wasting time. reason: i got tempted to press “no”, but there is no “no” choice and “No, I play CS” is a lame trick which i absolutely won’t press either. and looking on the page i see a lot of “BF2”, so to me this poll lacks of seriosity and smells like lameness :bash:

(killersimpson) #5

i think some of it was…

:nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag: :nag:

(Wils) #6

I’ve edited the poll to change the ‘No, I play CS’ to just ‘No’. Polls are better when they’re unbiased.

While I appreciate the thought that went into it, there’s just too much for us to comment on in that first post. Much of the reasoning behind any answers I would give would be based on my experience with the game, which is a little unfair given you haven’t played it… and it isn’t even finished yet :slight_smile:

In general, when it comes to ETQW, think ET for gameplay/movement/weapons and Quake for universe/timeline/weapons.

(DarkangelUK) #7

w00t! 1st trick movie a week after the game’s released? :smiley:

(Joe999) #8

please elaborate on that one and go deep into details :slight_smile:

(SniperSteve) #9

In general, when it comes to ETQW, think ET for gameplay/movement/weapons and Quake for universe/timeline/weapons.

We forever love you! :notworthy:

I love the movement and gameplay in ET, I’m very glad it will be a ‘skill game’ and not a combat simulator. (most combat simulators don’t have strog)

(RosOne) #10

This is the best thing I have heard about ET:QW since it was announced! Totally best thing. Awesome!

:clap: :banana: :clap: :banana: :clap: :banana: :clap: :banana: :clap: :banana: :clap:

Thank You!

(kamikazee) #11

Good news nonetheless, even if it was to be expected!

(Dazzamac) #12

You raise some good points there, especially the ‘BF2 is ceck’ routine :stuck_out_tongue:
I haven’t actually played BF2 because I got most of the shit your talking about in BF: Vietnam and I’m glad I never made the full transition to BF player. Vehicles will ‘be easy to fly though with skill you can pull off some killer moves’, ie any idiot can jump in and fly and get shot down, though someone with skill in it won’t be restricted to pull off some nice manouvres to dodge rockets etc and lay down some serious poonage. Balance is being very carefully looked at eg, the strogg walker is heavily armoured and powerful but on the flipside its slow and cumbersome whereas the gdf tank is a little weaker but is faster and more manouverable.

(KAGE) #13

OH you should put that on the box…1

sifnt raised some good points there and it was a good post nonetheless.
i think the best thing about the what wils mentioned was the movement. He mentioned weapons twice… but i mainly focused noted movement.

kekeke

(Pwned) #14

yeah! Now QW become much more interesting for me :smiley:

(Strid) #15

why bf2 sux?? the same reason why some ppl call it “Luckafield 2”

my view:

bf1942 - take a look at the vehicle/antitank system, the damage system, in 1942 a skilled antitank could take out 2-3 tanks alone, with some good positioning and aim, hitting them on the rear, and a good tanker could manage to survive against 5+ antitanks if he knew how to move, dodge projectiles and take out the AT´s quickly

bf2 - 1 antitank wont be able to take out a tank, unless the tanker is very retarded, but on other side, 3 antitanks will take it out anyway, skill wont help the tanker, its like a RTS fight, where 1knight will always kill an archer, and 2archers will always take out the 1knight

same happens for infantry, the way it works, low damage, big cone of fire, the weapons sucks so much that one of the complaints of the newest patch was the abusing of “Melee Splash Weapons” (Grenade Launcher and C4s), now they cut out the “splash melees”, but the infantry game still sucks, weapons arent balanced, on close combat its all about spray´n´pray, at long distance its go prone, and make lots of singleshots praying to the cone of fire help u to do enough damage before the enemy does, while bf1942 had a much more interesting infantry system, ppl may say it was all medic, but it required some aim, strafing, movement, u could feel urself winning a 1v1 by outmaneuvering the enemy, now u just feel “lucky”, it isnt the type of game where the player can make right choices, good moves and make difference, the gameplay makes the player one more peon on the chess table (hope u can understand me, english isnt my native language :smiley: )

hope the infantry/vehicle integration on ET:QW work on the same way as it was in Quake4 singleplayer, vehicles having auto-repair shield, but taking damage of everything, in a way that if u want to take out a tank/mech, instead of needing some sort of “anti-vehicular class”, it requires some good quantity of sustained firepower (a small group, or well-hidden player using almost all his ammo)

(Syd) #16

nice post sifnt.

My concern has always been movement. Personally I’m willing to adjust to any kind of gameplay, but movement is something every game that has kept my interest has had in common.

Vehicles I’m not fond of, mostly because I’ve never seen them implemented as what I would consider right. That said, if you were to ask me what exactly is the right way I would be the first to admit that I don’t know. When I play a game, hop in a vehicle and it feels right that is about the only thing that is ever going to sway my judgement on them.

My main concern is that those of us who love the pure gameplay of the infantry troops will take a second place to vehicular combat. ET gameplay/movement/weapons was exactly what I was hoping to hear, but I will judge it when I play it.

Until then, I await it concerned but excited :slight_smile:

(Joe999) #17

i always read “concern”, peopz. have a little faith, SD will release an awesome game, you’ll see. they did it once, they’ll do it again :clap:

(Dragon) #18

All I ask for, is that scoped weapons are like the sniper rifles in RTCW :slight_smile: The balance there was perfect imho.

Well, I ask for a few more things too, but for the love of (Insert your Deity here) please include ETPRO-like options for Competition. (Any hints here Wils?)

(B0rsuk) #19

Except for medics, which need 6+ FG42 hits to die, not to mention scoped FG42 is less accurate than scoped Garand.

(Dragon) #20

Last time I checked, about the only scoped Weapon in RTCW was the mauser.
1 headshot should equal a kill. Having the scope remain non steady and follow a set pattern meant you needed some skill to get continual headshots.