CMM is the future of DB... and that makes me sad

[hawkeyeguy99]

@bgyoshi said:

@hawkeyeguy99 said:
If the forums aren’t a place where I can share my opinion as your posts make it seem like I shouldn’t then what’s even the point of the forums?

Forums are here to keep the developers in the loop about what we want and a place for people that enjoy the game to match up with each other for organized play.

“I don’t like this feature because x and if you did y that would be helpful.”
“I really wish we had [some feature] what do you guys think?”
“I’m enjoying x but we could change y to improve it.”
“Hey guys I’m looking for a Ranked group.”

That’s what the forums are for.

“I don’t enjoy x it sucks.”
“This change you made is awful and people will quit.”
“I don’t like your game.”
“Don’t remove this feature I like it.”

This is not what the forums are for.

Again, not what I said but I get your point.

[bgyoshi]

@hawkeyeguy99 said:

Again, not what I said but I get your point.

I know, I wasn’t calling out OP or anyone explicitly. I simply defended that my post kept well in line with the theme of the thread, and I expressed distaste with the general notion that people in general are just whining and complaining without offering reasonable solutions that don’t involve effectively just undoing whatever was done.

[watsyurdeal]

Bgyoshi really nails it for the most part, the times are a changing

[znuund]

Even though I wasn’t really part of the community until recently, I still play this game since 2015 and I can’t agree more what bgyoshi stated.

In this regard:

You need to walk a path to see if it is wrong.

[videoboy4000]

I only play on those FF on servers, the only 4 SW servers left, that have 6v6 and level restriction. If they are empty i dont play.

[KayDubz]

@bgyoshi said:

Seriously, if you don’t like the game, stop playing. I hope SD continues this trend of removing bad features and releasing new content at the same time. All the people who only play for the crap like 7v7 and 8v8 will leave, and the new players will come in with a fresh perspective and start to love everything the veterans do, except with the added bonus of having all the features we didn’t have.

Then… maybe the atmosphere will change. Maybe we’ll actually get to have a new merc that isn’t made useless in the first month. Maybe we’ll get a map that people won’t just hate on for no reason. Maybe the player base will actually improve.

Y’all are just toxic. If you don’t like what they’re removing, go away. Please.

)>

New Players? LOLOLOL Yeah right. How about keeping players. You need people to stick around for this game to grow. You need to cater to your loyal veterans, as well as attract noobies.

Players come and go, and this game hasn’t grown its concurrent player base in the 2 years its been live on Steam. The game hit over 5k concurrent players around August 21st thanks to Javelin, and then tanked back to 3k yesterday.

Wanna know the last time Dirty Bomb averaged over 5k concurrent players in a month? April 2016, over 16 months ago. This month’s average by end month will likely be around the normal 3,000 to 4000 average, with 2,500 on slower days.

But I’m sure the attitude for a successful DB and SD is for “you to just leave if you don’t like the features we remove or add”.

Btw, from day 1 on this game in 2015, I saw plenty of full 7v7 and 8v8 servers. Its actually what I and many others preferred to play for quick fun games. It was easy finding full big servers to play in. The teams were large enough that I didn’t have to play my main hard for us to win a match.

They were more players hence we weren’t all wiped out as easily, and the work was spread out more. Nevermind having more enemies to kill.

But anyways, like I’ve said before…devs NEED veterans for this game to survive. Because new players have not at all stuck with this game based on what I continually see on Steam Charts month after month.

[ImSploosh]

@bgyoshi I get what you’re saying, but not everyone complained about the balance or wanted any features removed. A lot of people also didn’t desire the direction the map desire is headed in. Some people still like new mercs and don’t want them nerfed or altered. Tons of people played 7v7 and 8v8 as well as Execution. Thing is, people who played these did not discuss them because there was never any intention to remove them from the game. Complaints killed this game. Small portions of the population were complaining about things that didn’t need to be altered. Happens with every game unfortunately.

The changes they’re making just aren’t good, sad to say. They’re trying to push this small, competitive scene when this game plays more like TF2 than CS:GO. DB has never taken itself seriously, so why try to start now? Why build these maps like they were designed for CoD or a “peak your head” game? Why remove the large servers that are tons of fun coupled with the large abilities? Just my opinion, but I feel like the changes aren’t matching the right direction for DB.

Speaking to some others on this thread, you guys are looking too much into it. Games are supposed to be fun, not about insane competitiveness and extreme tryharding. Sure, some competition is fun every once in a while, hence ranked, but no one wants to play like that every game. Trying to turn DB into some small, slow game isn’t going to work. It’s a big game with big abilities and tons of fun to be had. Stop taking it so seriously and add special t-bag taunts! People are complaining about CMM (along with other issues) because it’s taking the fun out of the game.

[bgyoshi]

@ImSploosh said:
People are complaining about CMM (along with other issues) because it’s taking the fun out of the game.

And that’s a subjective but fair assessment. Critique isn’t the problem, critique is the answer. But we don’t have critical reviewing, just whining. Like you said, complaints are killing the game.

@KayDubz said:
Wanna know the last time Dirty Bomb averaged over 5k concurrent players in a month? April 2016, over 16 months ago. This month’s average by end month will likely be around the normal 3,000 to 4000 average, with 2,500 on slower days.

Wow how weird it’s like the game was popular until they stopped developing it. April 2016 was Aimee’s release I believe and then after that there was nothing but bug fixes and balance patches until 2017. It was horrible. And you know what brought about all of that? People that just said “This game is so buggy it sucks I will never play with bugs” and “I only lose cuz of bugs so u suk SD” and other whining and unhelpful BS, combined with Nexon strangling development funding, which forced devs to focus on one thing at a time. They stopped all development solely to fix bugs and balance guns and lost their player base.

Now when new content is finally start to roll out and players are increasing again, the same problem comes up. Unhelpful complaining and whining about things that aren’t a serious issue.

Yeah sure, no one expects 10k new players all of a sudden, but if it goes 5k, 4k, 3k, 5.5k, 4k, 6k, 5k, 4k, 7k… then that’s a win. Any growth is growth.

But we can help by offering solutions. Not by whining.

Be like @ImSploosh and offer actual criticism.

[Nail]

thanks @bgyoshi

[watsyurdeal]

At this point, if it were up to me, I’d give up on match making and get rented servers or the ability for players to host public servers on the browser, up and running as soon as humanely possible.

That will generate a lot more players coming back to play imo, especially if you give it different options and mods to turn on. Cumlative time, 6v6, friendly fire on, merc limits, oh yes.

[bgyoshi]

@watsyurdeal said:
At this point, if it were up to me, I’d give up on match making and get rented servers or the ability for players to host public servers on the browser, up and running as soon as humanely possible.

I disagree, the matchmaking is a great feature and it needs to stay so people can queue with each other, but

@watsyurdeal said:
That will generate a lot more players coming back to play imo, especially if you give it different options and mods to turn on. Cumlative time, 6v6, friendly fire on, merc limits, oh yes.

I agree, getting rentable or custom servers up would be excellent.

I actually liked @Wintergreen 's solution in another thread, where server browser turns into custom mode with the custom servers, and then CMM is just standard DB.

[Loki2]

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

[ImSploosh]

@6429F1740165 said:

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

Although I agree that this game is starting to take a turn for the worse (my opinion, but it’s just not heading in the direction I originally thought it was going to, hence why I even started playing the game in the first place), you can definitely sustain a game with 2k-4k concurrent players. Tons of games have done it. People who make large purchases and consistent buyers can keep a game afloat for a very long time, especially with events and special/limited edition releases.

Just as an example, a game I was into for a very long time, Dead Frontier (free browser-based zombie MMORPG) has stayed alive for nearly 10 years now, more than half of that time with less than 4k concurrent players. In terms of money, it’s still doing alright with less than 2k concurrent players. The main difference between Dead Frontier and Dirty Bomb is DF is/was built by 1-4 people, but mainly one guy. So there’s not as much overhead as a game like DB with tons of devs now. It’s still possible though and I doubt this game would still be in development if it hadn’t been making money thus far.

[KayDubz]

@bgyoshi

People are offering solutions to things that they deem wrong with the game. But you just float around threads calling people salty or whiners. You dismiss people without directly addressing the points they’ve made.

I’ve made threads pointing out how to fix Javelin, how to fix balancing issues, how to attract new players…but what do you have to say about that? You call it whining.

And no where in your snarky useless response did you address exactly WHY this game cannot grow its player base. Its not bugs, its wasnt Nexon. Its features being removed from the game, and the devs being slow to listen to the players. The devs want to force players into corners when it comes to gameplay. And thus the playerbase remains small.

You say any growth is growth…that its a win if there are spurts over time. Then where have those spurts been in the last TWO+ YEARS?

The game went SIXTEEN MONTHS from the last time it had over 5k concurrent players. Where’s the growth man? The game has small upticks for big patches or new mercs/maps…and then people leave again.

There cannot be any sustained growth if devs ignore players when we tell them how to make the game better.

@watsyurdeal just pointed out that rented servers can revive the game. Why has it taken devs so long to do that? I remember during 2015 where the devs made it seem like we would never get rented servers. They just wanted to force the idea upon all the players that Dirty Bomb was meant to be a competitive 5v5 Stopwatch game.

Meanwhile most of its players like bigger games, Objective mode, and constantly begged for private or rented servers.

If the game is going to grow, devs need to listen to the loyal fans who’ve stuck around since the start…especially people from the Alpha days. Yes of course they should listen to new fans as well. But the Devs shouldnt be ignoring players and then having jock sniffers defend them at every turn, which will not grow this game.

Ive seen people like you on the forum (and reddit) for a while…dismissing anyone who questions the direction of the game, or voices their displeasure. Meanwhile in the two years that Ive been playing…the player base remains what it is…stagnant.

[bgyoshi]

@KayDubz said:

Ive seen people like you on the forum (and reddit) for a while…dismissing anyone who questions the direction of the game, or voices their displeasure. Meanwhile in the two years that Ive been playing…the player base remains what it is…stagnant.

Because people questioning the direction of the game aren’t offering solutions. They aren’t being critical, they’re just whining.

I can tell you exactly why, from the start, that the player base shrank.

! On the beta release, there was like… 12k players. Over the next several months, they released new mercs and did a lot of weapon balance changes. Those were nice, but after a few mercs, we wanted more maps. We asked for more maps, so Dome was made and released. We asked for CMM, but nothing was ever made. We asked for Competitive to change, it didn’t change. We asked for explosives to be less powerful, they weren’t changed. We asked for new guns, we didn’t get any. We asked again for new maps, none came.
!
! By 2016, people began complaining about bugs. About balance. Wanted more maps, wanted new guns. Instead, we got bug fixes… and bug fixes…and bug fixes… and bug fixes… and another merc… and bug fixes… and nothing, nothing new.
!
! By spring 2017, there was barely 2k players per day. Then a new map came out. 4k per day. Then a new merc that we’d been waiting for, 5k players per day. Then a map rework and another event, back to 5k per day. Then a new merc. CMM. Everything we’ve been asking for since 2015 when the first drop in players started.
!
! You say DB isn’t growing, but the player base has only been on the rise ever since Turtle’s release.

The content we wanted from the start has finally started coming out, and as the player base grows, even in spikes, it’s happening again. Complaints about Javelin. Complaints about CMM. Complaints about balance.

What solutions are being offered for Javelin?

“Make her rocket take 5 seconds to charge and only move straight and only do 100 damage”

That’s not a solution, that’s a hamstring to make the merc useless.

What solutions are offered for CMM?

“Shuffle all the teams.”
“Only put close levels together”
“Don’t let noobs play”

Those aren’t solutions. That’s turning the game back to what it was before CMM.

What solutions are offered to attract new players?

“Make hats and silly gore and turn the game into Overwatch”

That’s not a solution, that’s praying that DB is something else instead of DB. Go play something else.

Myself and others are tired of the whining and complaining and useless threads. We actually want the game to get better, and we offer help instead of just bitching forever.

This is a solution: http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/37911/my-proposal-for-a-better-db

This is worthless whining: http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/37926/the-new-season-started-so-where-is-the-javelins-nerf

[KayDubz]

So basically your post is saying the game grows with more features…and we get a smattering of new players for a little while (many of whom do leave…that’s reality).

Yet the devs are trying to remove Objective from server browser and remove larger servers.

Btw, let me amend my earlier stats. DB never averaged over 5k players this for a month this year…what it did was reach a peak over 5k concurrent during a few days …which it hadn’t done in 16 months. Here’s all the monthly average.

August 2017
2,630.6
July 2017
2,440.3
June 2017
2,099.8
May 2017
2,100.0
April 2017
2,109.0
March 2017
2,105.2
February 2017
1,883.2
January 2017
2,009.2
December 2016
1,909.2
November 2016
1,430.5
October 2016
1,499.6
September 2016
1,688.4
August 2016
1,899.8
July 2016
2,190.8
June 2016
2,446.6
May 2016
2,803.7
April 2016
3,134.0
March 2016
2,663.8
February 2016
2,559.4
January 2016
2,606.1
December 2015
2,794.6
November 2015
3,131.2
October 2015
2,561.1
September 2015
2,819.7
August 2015
4,088.9
July 2015
7,101.7
June 2015
6,376.1
February 2015
7.8
January 2015
59.4

[bgyoshi]

@KayDubz
Yet the devs are trying to remove Objective from server browser and remove larger servers.

While releasing new content and features to make up for the removed modes, yes. This is called an update, it’s where you analyze what you currently have and change what you don’t like. Removing Objective mode servers and adding objective to CMM is called a change. Trimming off 8v8 servers causes 7v7 servers to fill up more. They’re even releasing a new map with it and they’ve announced that new mercs are coming too. That’s how it works dude.

! > @KayDubz said:
! >
! > August 2017
! > 2,630.6
!
! Is more players than
!
! > July 2017
! > 2,440.3
!
! Is more players than
!
! > June 2017
! > 2,099.8
!
! Looks like they gained some players after Dec 2016
!
! > May 2017
! > 2,100.0
! > April 2017
! > 2,109.0
! > March 2017
! > 2,105.2
! > February 2017
! > 1,883.2
! > January 2017
! > 2,009.2
! > December 2016
! > 1,909.2
!
! Whoa what happened here it’s almost like they had an event for the first time in almost a year
!
! > November 2016
! > 1,430.5
! > October 2016
! > 1,499.6
! > September 2016
! > 1,688.4
! > August 2016
! > 1,899.8
! > July 2016
! > 2,190.8
! > June 2016
! > 2,446.6
! > May 2016
! > 2,803.7
! > April 2016
! > 3,134.0
!
! I wonder what caused this plummet in players from April to December surely it’s wasn’t no development and only bug fixes no way
!
! > March 2016
! > 2,663.8
! > February 2016
! > 2,559.4
! > January 2016
! > 2,606.1
! > December 2015
! > 2,794.6
! > November 2015
! > 3,131.2
! > October 2015
! > 2,561.1
! > September 2015
! > 2,819.7
!
! Normal settling after release, here’s the baseline
!
! > August 2015
! > 4,088.9
! > July 2015
! > 7,101.7
! > June 2015
! > 6,376.1
!
! Beta releases here
!
! > February 2015
! > 7.8
! > January 2015
! > 59.4
!
! So… what said happened, happened. Awesome, now I have a post to reference from
!

[KayDubz]

@bgyoshi

Are you really getting giddy over 200 more average players in the entire more from the previous month?

This game needs to see several hundred, it not a thousand increase…in order for that to be a signal that the game is truly taking off.

I wouldn’t be clapping my hands in joy at under 3k average players for two years straight. Especially with how other free games are performing on Steam. And especially with how other shooters are performing.

Anyways Ive made a new thread to discuss these stats. When I misread the stats…I was thinking we were having 5k average last month…and a 13k max average when the game first released. What I didn’t realize is that those were just peaks for the a day or two in the month…and the reality is that the game hasn’t made it over a 3k monthly average in 2 years.

Now we need to find out how to change that.

[bgyoshi]

@KayDubz said:
@bgyoshi

Are you really getting giddy over 200 more average players in the entire more from the previous month?

Especially since the game has grown by over 700 players since December and 1.2k players since last November, hell yes I’m giddy.

This game needs to see several hundred, it not a thousand increase…in order for that to be a signal that the game is truly taking off.

We aren’t trying to make it take off yet, we’re still trying to tailor the features to work with the dev’s vision AND with what the players want. We don’t need a sudden 10 - 20k increase in players, that won’t happen.

I wouldn’t be clapping my hands in joy at under 3k average players for two years straight. Especially with how other free games are performing on Steam. And especially with how other shooters are performing.

Baby steps. Other new shooters are highly goofy high TTK low skill games that are nothing but explosives and dorkiness. Devs have already said DB will never be that and if you want that, go play something else.

Anyways Ive made a new thread to discuss these stats. When I misread the stats…I was thinking we were having 5k average last month…and a 13k max average when the game first released. What I didn’t realize is that those were just peaks for the a day or two in the month…and the reality is that the game hasn’t made it over a 3k monthly average in 2 years.

Now we need to find out how to change that.

And telling the devs “I come home to relax and not get rekt” is not going to help.

[hawkeyeguy99]

@bgyoshi @KayDubz okay guys, please take the fight to DMs. @Eox can you clean the thread of the off-topic back and forth?