CMM is the future of DB... and that makes me sad

(Loki.) #81

@ImSploosh said:

@6429F1740165 said:

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

Although I agree that this game is starting to take a turn for the worse (my opinion, but it’s just not heading in the direction I originally thought it was going to, hence why I even started playing the game in the first place), you can definitely sustain a game with 2k-4k concurrent players. Tons of games have done it. People who make large purchases and consistent buyers can keep a game afloat for a very long time, especially with events and special/limited edition releases.

Just as an example, a game I was into for a very long time, Dead Frontier (free browser-based zombie MMORPG) has stayed alive for nearly 10 years now, more than half of that time with less than 4k concurrent players. In terms of money, it’s still doing alright with less than 2k concurrent players. The main difference between Dead Frontier and Dirty Bomb is DF is/was built by 1-4 people, but mainly one guy. So there’s not as much overhead as a game like DB with tons of devs now. It’s still possible though and I doubt this game would still be in development if it hadn’t been making money thus far.

No disrespect… but web-based games, their over-head doesn’t even come close to a game like DB.

I would imagine DB has close to 50 FTE’s… take their cost and add all the back end needs, i.e. advertisement, servers, rent etc. SD needs to bring in a rather large chunk of change to keep the lights on. Right now, am guessing they are burning through Brinks profits and investors $$.

If they don’t figure out a way to bump the player base to a steady 10k, this game will not survive 2017… The only time you see it on steams top 100 is after a new merc is released. But then it quickly falls off the chart. Even then, the numbers never reach 10k…

Players, come and go quickly and thats not a good thing for a FTP game that requires micro-transactions to survive…

(ImSploosh) #82

@6429F1740165 said:

@ImSploosh said:

@6429F1740165 said:

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

Although I agree that this game is starting to take a turn for the worse (my opinion, but it’s just not heading in the direction I originally thought it was going to, hence why I even started playing the game in the first place), you can definitely sustain a game with 2k-4k concurrent players. Tons of games have done it. People who make large purchases and consistent buyers can keep a game afloat for a very long time, especially with events and special/limited edition releases.

Just as an example, a game I was into for a very long time, Dead Frontier (free browser-based zombie MMORPG) has stayed alive for nearly 10 years now, more than half of that time with less than 4k concurrent players. In terms of money, it’s still doing alright with less than 2k concurrent players. The main difference between Dead Frontier and Dirty Bomb is DF is/was built by 1-4 people, but mainly one guy. So there’s not as much overhead as a game like DB with tons of devs now. It’s still possible though and I doubt this game would still be in development if it hadn’t been making money thus far.

No disrespect… but web-based games, their over-head doesn’t even come close to a game like DB.

I would imagine DB has close to 50 FTE’s… take their cost and add all the back end needs, i.e. advertisement, servers, rent etc. SD needs to bring in a rather large chunk of change to keep the lights on. Right now, am guessing they are burning through Brinks profits and investors $$.

If they don’t figure out a way to bump the player base to a steady 10k, this game will not survive 2017… The only time you see it on steams top 100 is after a new merc is released. But then it quickly falls off the chart. Even then, the numbers never reach 10k…

Players, come and go quickly and thats not a good thing for a FTP game that requires micro-transactions to survive…

I was just using it as an example. There’s other games that have managed to survive a long time with only 2k-4k players. As long as there’s those loyal, rich spenders, or a steady amount of transactions, the game will be okay. I was just implying from the example, that the dude who made the game is making some serious money. Unfortunately that particular game turned into a major cash-grab, but the profit is still there. I get what you’re saying though, it’s not the best example because it doesn’t compare too well.

Now looking at it from a different perspective, considering the increase in expenses (more devs and resources being used after the Nexon split), the game might not last as long with such a small playerbase. I don’t really see the good with CMM at the moment. Seems to be pushing people away rather than keeping them long-term. Too many issues with it at the moment. Personally I think a good modding community would help DB, but who knows? D:

(Loki.) #83

@ImSploosh said:

@6429F1740165 said:

@ImSploosh said:

@6429F1740165 said:

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

Although I agree that this game is starting to take a turn for the worse (my opinion, but it’s just not heading in the direction I originally thought it was going to, hence why I even started playing the game in the first place), you can definitely sustain a game with 2k-4k concurrent players. Tons of games have done it. People who make large purchases and consistent buyers can keep a game afloat for a very long time, especially with events and special/limited edition releases.

Just as an example, a game I was into for a very long time, Dead Frontier (free browser-based zombie MMORPG) has stayed alive for nearly 10 years now, more than half of that time with less than 4k concurrent players. In terms of money, it’s still doing alright with less than 2k concurrent players. The main difference between Dead Frontier and Dirty Bomb is DF is/was built by 1-4 people, but mainly one guy. So there’s not as much overhead as a game like DB with tons of devs now. It’s still possible though and I doubt this game would still be in development if it hadn’t been making money thus far.

No disrespect… but web-based games, their over-head doesn’t even come close to a game like DB.

I would imagine DB has close to 50 FTE’s… take their cost and add all the back end needs, i.e. advertisement, servers, rent etc. SD needs to bring in a rather large chunk of change to keep the lights on. Right now, am guessing they are burning through Brinks profits and investors $$.

If they don’t figure out a way to bump the player base to a steady 10k, this game will not survive 2017… The only time you see it on steams top 100 is after a new merc is released. But then it quickly falls off the chart. Even then, the numbers never reach 10k…

Players, come and go quickly and thats not a good thing for a FTP game that requires micro-transactions to survive…

Now looking at it from a different perspective, considering the increase in expenses (more devs and resources being used after the Nexon split), the game might not last as long with such a small playerbase. I don’t really see the good with CMM at the moment. Seems to be pushing people away rather than keeping them long-term. Too many issues with it at the moment. Personally I think a good modding community would help DB, but who knows? D:

Agreed! Not sure why or who thought this CMM would be a good idea… talk about distancing your community from one another…

I just dont understand what their end game is with, CMM // Quick Match?!? all fine and dandy once in awhile… But with these mechanics there is zero chance in creating a community where players enjoy visiting each time they log into play.

Nothing better then jumping on a server with players who aren’t a$$hats, play the objective and know what to do (I miss ETQW)… These type of games are so rare in this game, the thought of making CMM the standard will make them impossible to find!

#84

Y’all should really chill a bit. I think there are fair points and easily defensible positions from both sides, but there is a lot of accuracy behind @bgyoshi’s viewpoint if you go back far enough within the community and forums. Players have pleaded for about 2 years for a party play feature and CMM. Now, I’m no expert by any means; I took a long break from the game before coming back recently on a fresh account and finally decided to join up on these boards. I also haven’t played since the game was first released (albeit shortly after) so I’d be hesitant to even call myself a DB veteran.

That said, I also think there is a clear distinction to be made between crying and constructive suggestions. It’s hard to please everyone and I’m generally not one to be a fan of removing things for the sake of change, but overall I would say they are slowly but surely adding better content to the game. All of this uproar, especially regarding CMM and premature screaming merc nerfing, is just that… premature. The main issue I see with the game is a struggle for balance between its competitive aspect and the more quirky, fun style that most view DB as. Subtle tweaks here and there and I believe we’ll be golden. Lastly, at least from my understanding, the active/concurrent playerbase has remained relatively stable and shouldn’t necessarily be used as the primary indication of its health. Even if they perfected this game, it’s still within the free-to-play market from a pretty small dev team and is unlikely to rise to the ranks of an Overwatch-esque caliber. So long as they’be able to retain their current players and draw more in, the game will remain live.

Side note: I’ll even concede that I’m biased with execution, but you won’t hear me sayin’ the game is dead or dying 'cause of its removal. Despite it not being central to their vision of the game, I absolutely loved execution and probably spent at least 50% of my playing time there. US West and East servers had a pretty close-knit and skilled community within the mode as well. So, yeah, I’m shocked and disappointed, but I can’t fault them for it and I see why it was removed.

(neverplayseriou) #85

Until cmm actually has merc limits, ping limits/restrictions and the option to choose what server region(s) in Europe I want to play on I personally see no point in cmm (would even like to see ff but I guess that’s never gonna happen cause it has to be casual), it’s just a glorified server browser match with a new intro/outro screen and a slightly longer waiting time.

SD would’ve been better off just removing 7v7 and 8v8 and only have 5v5 and 6v6 servers (with and without ff) so that people can actually get used to the ranked format or something close to it.

If SD isn’t willing to take the risk of removing the server browser I really don’t see this game turning into a big competitive shooter, new players should be prepared for ranked while playing cmm instead of getting a random pop up at level 7 telling them they’ve unlocked ranked matchmaking.

A ‘ranked/competitive’ tutorial (which SD could even create with the help of the current comp scene) in which spawn timers, friendly fire, good placement of healing stations and such are explained to a player would also be something I would personally like to see. But atm I really don’t like the direction SD is heading, map and merc wise (and the extremely long time inbetween balancing patches, or simply the lack of a bigger pts so that there’s actually balance changes and ui changes being tested).

(Demolama) #86

@6429F1740165 said:

@Demolama said:

@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.

LOL do you even play DB?

LOL! my thought exactly…

The people building this game are not the same people who built W:ET or ETQW…

SD jumped the shark with Brink (how did that turn out?) and Dirty Bomb is nothing more then Brink 2… It will share the same fate, you cant sustain a game with 2-4K people playing, such a small player base would need to purchase a substantial amount of micro-transactions, to keep any game alive and I don’t see that happening…

This was a tongue and cheek comment directed at @Nail because I never see his steam account play DB. But regardless of whether or not Nail plays the game I know where he came from and I’d value his opinion over those who don’t have the same background as us.

(Ptiloui) #87

@bgyoshi said:

@watsyurdeal said:
At this point, if it were up to me, I’d give up on match making and get rented servers or the ability for players to host public servers on the browser, up and running as soon as humanely possible.

I disagree, the matchmaking is a great feature and it needs to stay so people can queue with each other, but

@watsyurdeal said:
That will generate a lot more players coming back to play imo, especially if you give it different options and mods to turn on. Cumlative time, 6v6, friendly fire on, merc limits, oh yes.

I agree, getting rentable or custom servers up would be excellent.

I actually liked @Wintergreen 's solution in another thread, where server browser turns into custom mode with the custom servers, and then CMM is just standard DB.

Include all servers that are run by SD in the CMM (obj and sw mode), let servers browser only for community made servers.

(watsyurdeal) #88

@Ptiloui said:

@bgyoshi said:

@watsyurdeal said:
At this point, if it were up to me, I’d give up on match making and get rented servers or the ability for players to host public servers on the browser, up and running as soon as humanely possible.

I disagree, the matchmaking is a great feature and it needs to stay so people can queue with each other, but

@watsyurdeal said:
That will generate a lot more players coming back to play imo, especially if you give it different options and mods to turn on. Cumlative time, 6v6, friendly fire on, merc limits, oh yes.

I agree, getting rentable or custom servers up would be excellent.

I actually liked @Wintergreen 's solution in another thread, where server browser turns into custom mode with the custom servers, and then CMM is just standard DB.

Include all servers that are run by SD in the CMM (obj and sw mode), let servers browser only for community made servers.

That’s assuming they don’t fuck over community server owners

(Ptiloui) #89

@watsyurdeal said:

@Ptiloui said:
Include all servers that are run by SD in the CMM (obj and sw mode), let servers browser only for community made servers.

That’s assuming they don’t @$!# over community server owners

How could they do this ?
And why would they ? Heck, if specific rules from a community servers become so popular, they could even include them in the core game.

(watsyurdeal) #90

@Ptiloui said:

@watsyurdeal said:

@Ptiloui said:
Include all servers that are run by SD in the CMM (obj and sw mode), let servers browser only for community made servers.

That’s assuming they don’t @$!# over community server owners

How could they do this ?
And why would they ? Heck, if specific rules from a community servers become so popular, they could even include them in the core game.

By having them be a certain price, certain rules, not allowing server mods, etc

(B_Montiel) #91

What still surprises me is that they’re still very misty about community/rented servers. Remember, they pretty much killed their original audience delaying their answer on that one, even during the alpha. At some point they will actually kill the last still hoping.

By the way, it’s not the perfect answer. Right now with AIE we have a community server with FF on provided by SD, we do try to fill up from time to time, but the rest of the community is totally lost without landmarks at all about servers, so there’s no else to fill it if we don’t.

Nevertheless, I totally feel like this is the same people category who actually lobbied about having a CMM system in DB for the last 1,5 years who are currently trash talking it madly. You were warned, and it seems kinda well deserved.

(Ptiloui) #92

@B_Montiel said:
By the way, it’s not the perfect answer. Right now with AIE we have a community server with FF on provided by SD, we do try to fill up from time to time, but the rest of the community is totally lost without landmarks at all about servers, so there’s no else to fill it if we don’t.

^ This
Everytime i look at the 3 community made servers available on EU world part, there are empty. Except tonight, there were some people. We were even full at one point !
Maybe people are not aware those exist ? People that joined us were even surprised it was FF, and some of my friends didn’t even know there were community servers.