Closed Beta Update V39035 (25th September 2014)

(Exedore) #141

This is something we’re experimenting with internally at the moment. In the roughest terms possible, we doubled the effectiveness of all abilities to see what would happen, and the initial results were positive. Lacing movement into this is our next step… no promises at the moment of if and when this will go live, but as I said I think it’s been positive.

Other than removing Capture entirely there are no significant changes in mind for objectives. While we’re not against the notion of forward spawns in principle, it’s a problem that it’s only implemented in one map, and from a production point of view they make maps significantly harder to develop. Side objectives need to open and close alternate routes to primary objectives, essentially relaxing or constricting choke points.

We have huge lists of what we’d like to do with the existing maps that mirror a lot of your suggestions; we’re mostly focused on Dome at the moment, so that is where feedback is most useful.

(PixelTwitch) #142

[QUOTE=Exedore;512141]Other than removing Capture entirely there are no significant changes in mind for objectives. While we’re not against the notion of forward spawns in principle, it’s a problem that it’s only implemented in one map, and from a production point of view they make maps significantly harder to develop. Side objectives need to open and close alternate routes to primary objectives, essentially relaxing or constricting choke points.
[/QUOTE]

Regardless if its harder or not, there comes a time when you need to do something…
Even just looking at Train Yard, so many poor choices where made for this latest build…
The design of the last objective is beyond bad and everyone should have been able to see that. SD of course missed the glaring issues and pumped it out to the player base. The first C4 objective on Train Yard is also crazy. Due to silly design it is impossible to see if you are safe when planting the bomb yet you are given that information when defusing it.

Honestly, all you had to do on that objective was make the hacking radius larger…
Same with Underground…
I also believe thats how the forward spawn in Victoria should be handled…

You never stream lined… you overly simplify and what we have is much worse than we had 5 months ago (objective wise).

(rookie1) #143

Agnostic lead to TDM no need for team play everybody can do obj,
Proficiencies is a Band-aid mechanic for agnostic…Wich is is unrealistic for certain Merc and add confusion in certain situation.
Not to say that it’s complicating different aspect of the game .
I’m always been for improving not looking for Old stuff ,but they are some old stuff that is just better

(Exedore) #144

You’re making a few assumptions here without all the information. We never said it was perfect or “final”, but given the sentiments on the previous version of the map we felt that it was a reasonable course of action to re-stitch the maps back together and try to improve things for you all as quickly as we could. We definitely do want to improve it, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, we are currently focusing on iterating blockouts as we can do that in an order of magnitude more quickly.

This is potentially useful, but I have to admit I’m not sure what you mean here. Can we alter the geometry of the plant location to mitigate this?

(PixelTwitch) #145

[QUOTE=Exedore;512150]
This is potentially useful, but I have to admit I’m not sure what you mean here. Can we alter the geometry of the plant location to mitigate this?[/QUOTE]

It seems like in an attempt to address the overlooked nature of that point you have enclosed the C4 position. However, while removing the overlooked nature you have actually blinded the attacker…

Personally, I would have liked to see the track switch controls flipped so they are against the other side of the bridge. stops them being over looked from the turret, gives a clear view of the defenders exits and also makes retaking the point easier once the bomb is down.

How about you just a few of us the maps that we can load up and run around…
We could really help avoid some of these things.

(spookify) #146

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;512152]It seems like in an attempt to address the overlooked nature of that point you have enclosed the C4 position. However, while removing the overlooked nature you have actually blinded the attacker…

Personally, I would have liked to see the track switch controls flipped so they are against the other side of the bridge. stops them being over looked from the turret, gives a clear view of the defenders exits and also makes retaking the point easier once the bomb is down.

How about you just a few of us the maps that we can load up and run around…
We could really help avoid some of these things.[/QUOTE]

Forget the hack and just blow up the gates!!! Over simplify is right… The maps need life and a story not just this C4 spot seem good and will explode dropping two gates… HUH!!!

(spookify) #147

[QUOTE=Exedore;512141]This is something we’re experimenting with internally at the moment. In the roughest terms possible, we doubled the effectiveness of all abilities to see what would happen, and the initial results were positive. Lacing movement into this is our next step… no promises at the moment of if and when this will go live, but as I said I think it’s been positive.
[/QUOTE]

Its early for me here but this sounds positive but I can’t seem to picture this in my head…

So medic packs from SAW would double HP speed or give double ammo
OR
Are you talking the speed at which these abilities can be used… More packs and more ammo?

“Lacing movement” What is this?

Moving the speed of things up I think would be great… We have seen many videos where people pull off some amazing moves but the game can not keep up…

  • Example switching to medic paddles, reviving then back to run then to knife then back to gun…
    Very common move: Revive --> Kill --> Gib --> Kill

I do not like the comment about maps… Came across as my job is hard and to much work… I have never really liked capture maps in any game and I can especially see this blowing up in SD’s face with how small some maps are and the crazy spam we are already starting to see…

Yes, most of us have all asked for forward spawns because it feels like you are progressing a map and makes for amazing ESports…

Feedback on DOME
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/41686-Dome-feedback?p=511977&viewfull=1#post511977
I gave my dome feedback here and it was a cut off half the map!!! HAHA!!! Not intended to be a joke either because then it would work like RTCW Base…

I am really not understanding SD’s thinking on these maps, mercs and balance… When you think about everything together it feels like SD just wants a free for all with no team play… If you pick the correct 3 mercs and your teams mercs counter more then the other teams mercs you win with out using any team work because you can just out gun them…

(Exedore) #148

Poor choice of words, sorry. “Integrating movement into this is our next step…” would’ve been clearer.

(Exedore) #149

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;512152]How about you just a few of us the maps that we can load up and run around…
We could really help avoid some of these things.[/QUOTE]
We actually talked about this today, and are looking into ways we can change things up in this regard.

(spookify) #150

So if the abilities are tweaked and by doing so something with the movement also needs to be tweaked we could be looking at a whole new dynamic to the game then we are currently playing? Or just a slightly better feel (possible slower) with possible more emphasis on teamwork.

I am flying to the UK to test this ASAP this sounds amazeballs!

(Exedore) #151

I’m jumping the gun on my next State of the Game post a bit, but we’re looking at differentiating the highs and lows of most of the gameplay systems a lot more than where they are now. Overall I wouldn’t say we want to change the median much from where it is, there’s just way too much clustering at that medium.

And yeah, I know you all told us so… we listen, and had an opportunity to do something about it. :slight_smile:

(Mustang) #152

This game needs more slide (see signature).

(Glottis-3D) #153

well. about 1st stage of trainyard.
it is reay very bad layout and i never cared about any version of it since PAX. it was second worst map after canary for me.
but now we have a last obj, which is diverse and fun (except for very last part - the delivery).
so i am going to think about how to improve 1st part.

most of all i dont like:

-long thin ‘corridor’ of a railway, leading to obj from both sides.
-side obj is too close to primary, and not very usefull. you can spent several seconds to make it, but in less seconds you can plant the primary!!
-main route is the only ‘back’ route and it is most visible and most dangerous. back routes should be sneaky ones.

(Glottis-3D) #154

i also think that it is missleading to call unfinished things ‘bad’. because it is unfinished.
i try to call ‘bad’ only bad things.
dome, TY-new last stage are clearly unfinished. but far from bad.

(tokamak) #155

Really glad to be reading this.

(INF3RN0) #156

[QUOTE=Exedore;512141]

Other than removing Capture entirely there are no significant changes in mind for objectives. While we’re not against the notion of forward spawns in principle, it’s a problem that it’s only implemented in one map, and from a production point of view they make maps significantly harder to develop. Side objectives need to open and close alternate routes to primary objectives, essentially relaxing or constricting choke points.

We have huge lists of what we’d like to do with the existing maps that mirror a lot of your suggestions; we’re mostly focused on Dome at the moment, so that is where feedback is most useful.[/QUOTE]

Well in the case of dome then and most maps for that matter, I’d have to say that the positioning of the side objectives aren’t very effective at fulfilling that purpose. Most tend to be too close to the main choke points to be worthwhile or practically intersect the main defensive crossfire, or don’t really offer a noticeable impact overall. These paths don’t exactly offer a whole lot of reward, where as choosing to go left or right usually ends up in just about the same difficult situation anyhow. I’m glad the intention is there, but so far they just aren’t meeting that goal.

As to forward spawns, I still think that they would save you a big headache on maps. The positioning on Terminal defeats the purpose though. I think forward spawns are a great solution to the spawn wave issue simply because it serves the purpose of biasing the spawn distance from the objective and helps break up the motivation for camping. It would of course need to be located somewhere separate from the main obj however, so that over extension was required to maintain control of it. This tends to be in favor of the offense, where in the defensive experience ought to involve increasing pressure from losing control of side objs/forward spawns during a match. It’s what makes it exciting, rather than repetitive.

(INF3RN0) #157

[QUOTE=Exedore;512141]This is something we’re experimenting with internally at the moment. In the roughest terms possible, we doubled the effectiveness of all abilities to see what would happen, and the initial results were positive. Lacing movement into this is our next step… no promises at the moment of if and when this will go live, but as I said I think it’s been positive.
[/QUOTE]

This sounds good, however with that comes the risk of people feeling powerless against ‘skill less abilities’. I can only hope that there will be some means of intelligently timing the countering/avoiding/reducing these through some means (global or merc specific). The more control people have, the harder it is to become annoyed when you can effectively retaliate most of the time. Otherwise I’d expect it wouldn’t be as positive around here lol.

(Glottis-3D) #158

i am so concerned about class objects because of 2 things.

  1. i know (not guess, not theorise, simply KNOW) how important for excitement they were in ET and ETQW.
  2. i dont see any replacement for the class-object part of the game. this part was taken away, and now there is an empty place. devs didnt put anything of that kind of fun, risk and adrenaline. and i dont believe, that there can be such a replacement (i might be wrong here). but in order to prove me wrong - i need to see this other “awesome thing” - and there is none.
(tokamak) #159

Agreed. They do a great job at streamlining routes, letting the attackers reinforce faster. But they indeed don’t really change situations.

Good side objectives give attackers more options rather than merely faster paths towards the same end.

(spookify) #160

I think SD has finally heard us loud and clear; if not by our forum posts then by the number of players in the server… I have never seen it this dead…

The conversations today finally got me a little more excited about DB… I am sure it will be awhile before we actually see these things get implemented but I hope we do.

After a few weeks off I might re-install tonight and zip back to default CFG and see how the game feels…

DB was really starting to get to me as I was grinding away with only 3 - 6 people in a server and all on euro servers… I was actually going a little crazy while playing for multiple reason; but mostly frustration due to lag, kill speed, movement speed and overall game-play…

What I really hope that happens is a patch next week that focuses on net coding… The fact that I can have 500+ frames in a server with one extra person BUT loss over 400 Frames on a half or Full server MIGHT be what is causing my frustrations. This also might contributing to the warping, lagging, glitching and odd feeling we get in game… We have also complained about player speed and animation… This could all come down to this issue…

Questions:
SD is this on your bug board? (Full Server Frame Lag)
If so what is the priority level? (Full Server Frame Lag)
If you can not tell us that can you say if you know the cause of this? (Full Server Frame Lag)
Is there anything we can do to help or to minimize this problem? (Full Server Frame Lag)
Any way to maximize smooth game play?
Any CFG stuff you want us to test?
How is rawinputmouse testing going?
Hows the animation in the game in general coming along?
Are medic paddles and animation getting polished (reviving people and missing problem)?
Are player collisions getting another pass soon?
Any updates on train tracks, walls, ramps and other player and bullet collisions?

I personally think if you double merc abilities and Integrating movement that it would be worth testing. :wink: Oh, that’s been said and is a possibility and its looking positive however might not make it into the game but the vibe is good with a slightly groovy feeling and we like the direction but can say 100% that you the tester will ever see it but we like it in the office… YEP! BRING IT ON!!!

Edit: Anything over 6 people in a server is unplayable!