Closed Beta Update V39035 (25th September 2014)

(Glottis-3D) #121

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;512098]Have you not even considered closing down the closed alpha and only opening at set times?
I am in a number of other Alphas and Betas that do this with much lower number of players that manage to remain active…

Saying that most other games are being patched every couple of day and according to their developers we are on the same build as what they are. Makes it more interesting than this “semi released” structure we have going on in here. Was in a game the other day with the devs and they found a bug/exploit in the map. They closed down the server and patched it there and then (took around 3 hours) and we was back playing with the bug fixed.

Yea, I am frustrated…
The more poor patches I see with more bugs than fixes and silly design choices that break things to the next patch, I have really started wondering why we do not have access to a broken dev build if we want it?

People like me would run around empty maps for hours each week and play with a couple of other people from time to time. Even if it is “unplayable” some of us in here can see past that and actually provide valuable feedback. Even if it was just brought up to the current dev build once a week.

I don’t know guys… I have just started recording for my “top 10 most anticipated PC games of 2015” and during this time I have looked and played lots of the games on the lists and it really starts to hit home how dated DB is going to look this time next year. I honestly want you guys to smash it out of the park. After all the talk we had about communication we had recently, it would be nice if it actually started to happen. It would not surpise me if you guys regretted letting anyone play the game already and that you wish we would just all leave and let you get on with it. If that is the case just tell us…

Whilst Dirty Bomb is one of my most anticipated games going forward. I would be lying if I said anything other than its got to be one of the worst handled Beta/Alphas I am currently part of.

Don’t really know why I bother -.- lol[/QUOTE]
nice post there.

speaking about short times/periods of test - we have some kind that in Ru version. and it is bad as well. but that doesnt realy make the player-count lower. players just wait there for a not-broken build. and wait…and wait…

…

…and wait…

(Glottis-3D) #122

[QUOTE=spookify;512100]Will be nice to see you in-game and pubbing it up. I will be back next patch. :smiley:

Silvanoshi, you know what would be really cool is a short 1 or 2 minute YouTube video of you going around the office and describing or partially showing how DB is being map…

Example:
Like over here Anti and tweaking the something something
or
Right now we are heading out with Smooth so shoot some guns and get some audio or ROF.
or
Some dude is tweaking a part of a map
or
Some dude is eatting one of the 1000 cakes you seem to have floating around
or
Here’s Toomic carving a pumpkin…

:cool:

We havent seen a video update in forever… We are just sitting here with 1000 ideas going through our heads and sometime flaming/trolling because we really dont have anything better to do… Updates, put us to work or shock and awe us :wink:[/QUOTE]
+rep for this.

so very much needed.

+++
or

someone realy reading some of our forum feedback with a very pleased face!

=)

(Silvanoshi) #123

[QUOTE=k0k0nat;512097]to be honest, i often find myself asking what i am supposed to test. (beside from german localization :stuck_out_tongue: )

  1. Open Feedback thread
  2. Patch comes
  3. Open the same Feedback thread again.

This is what I see in the forums ^^[/QUOTE]
You could just bump the old thread to highlight the fact that the feedback is still relevant as far as you’re concerned ;).

@Pixel,

Shutting down server access and offering specific test times isn’t something that’s being looked at with Nexon right now, no. I would imagine that the vast majority of the other tests that you’re involved in haven’t been running for the bones of 2 years at this stage. That tends to change how the project is perceived, and where people think it “should” be.

@spookify

Hmmm, I’m going to be pretty busy here till the end of the year, we’ll see what happens :?

(Seanza) #124

The problem is that the only changes currently in the game are based on Ecco data, not actual written feedback by the community. Even Raste is done with giving feedback like he used to here because he doesn’t feel like it’s even worth the time and effort he puts in since nothing ever comes of it.

(PixelTwitch) #125

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Seanza again.

(spookify) #126

This statement is how we feel because we do not get to much feedback on our feedback… I have seen maybe 2 or 3 posts where an SD member was like thats a good idea. Most the responses have been cryptic so we feel like we give give give and we talk about it amongst ourselves.

I know for a fact your statement is false because we have seen our changes being put into the game… Prophett has had a few of his map idea used and Pix’s bug and other suggestions have been widely used but in what seems to be small scale… Back in the day a lot of my ideas or suggestions were used for balance and timing… SD has also said that a lot of the things we say have been thought of and are or were already in the works by the time we mentioned them…

Again what I see as the problem is the length of time that we give feedback before we see results. A lot of our feedback is around maps and those take the longest to do so we do not see anything for months…

Back in the day smooth would give a balance update every patch and you really felt like you had a say or at least I did…

The game has really shifted focus from back then after going to nexon…

It seems like very large patch items are trying to be worked on. SD is a lot more quite and we are getting lighting and bug fix patches that seem to be causing more problems… Balance has really quieted down and people have been nerfed. (Stocker in this last one)… I am guessing speed will be slowed next update… This is the directions guns are going.

Its getting real hard to predict what SD is going to do. Its been 2 years and gun fights feel worst…

Saw feels great = Nerf
Phoenix finally feels good = Nerf
Fragger rolling = Nerf
Stocker can finally track a running merc while crouched = NERF!!!

If you are crouched and camped in a corner you should be able to track and down an enemy in 5 - 10 yards… Now someone runs mid range and you are tracking and poof he is gone…

I honestly do not know what type of game this DB wants to be… We do not need to tap… There is not a big enough reward… Crouch? Maybe… RLRL?? That is your first motion when you run into an enemy is to move.

I just dont know anymore…

Do not even get me started about teamwork…

(Seanza) #127

Great, so they fix bugs. We are glorified bug finders with the “community” label slapped under us. What we don’t see is the “MUG” underneath it that only SD/Nexon can see with their UV light.

I’m talking about weapon balance, merc availability, map design, private server situation, bull**** about how Nexon aren’t in control of the creativity etc. My point about Raste probably resonates within the majority of testers who care(d) about this game. I personally find it very difficult to watch DB go the direction it’s going, especially when the person who I see as the most passionate about this game has had enough.

(INF3RN0) #128

If I were SD I’d take most of the individual feedback with a grain of salt, but it should be very clear that popular topics need to be addressed. There’s such a big mix of ideas that come out of them that I’m sure a few of those ideas would be worth trying or finding inspiration. The one thing that is clear is that the game does not hold retention. I can still find the will to play because I’m not able to frequent it as much as most, but when I do I get the same satisfaction/experience as I might get in TDM. If it wasn’t for my circumstances I’d surely get burnt out like the rest.

(Seanza) #129

+1 rep.

(Silvanoshi) #130

As Spookify has mentioned, your feedback is very much taken into consideration when bringing out updates. Echo isn’t the be all and end all. I do take your point about feedback for feedback though. A lot of that reduction in feedback has to do with workloads, but I’ll see if we can possibly figure out another format that comes in a slightly less time-consuming format.

Weapon balance is a tricky one to discuss in terms of community feedback as plenty of fans want longer TTKs, while others are looking for them to become shorter. We have most certainly taken a great deal of feedback into account as far as trying to make the weapons and how they handle, feel better. Again, different groups have different expectations for what “better” actually means, but overall (barring a few issues with shotties etc), we seem to be making progress for the majority.

Merc availability. As mentioned before, the current system is the first stage implementation. It’s entirely possible that this may evolve going forward. There has already been some good discussion about various systems here on the forum, the vast majority of which took place shortly after that update. It’d certainly be interesting to see a similar level of discussion take place now that everyone’s had some time to play with the current system.

Map design. Again this is an area in which we’ve made considerable attempts to incorporate community feedback. We had plenty of people wanting maps to be less linear, and do a better job of supporting trick jumps (among other things). Dome does just that. It’s not perfect any means. There’re still plenty of improvements to be made, but I would hope that most people can see that we’re very much trying to incorporate community feedback there.

Private servers…that’s another tricky one…it hasn’t been forgotten and we’re seeing what can be done.

As for your point about retention INF3RN0, it’s a fair one, especially during the last large wave of new testers. There have been some improvements made in the meantime however. We’ve got the first pass at the new userflow in place, which’ll help newer players to jump in-game with a better understanding of DB as a whole. We’ve also got the Loadout Card and progression system online. Again, it can be argued that these things are not 100% awesome right now, but they’re considerable improvements upon the former situation.

All in all, I most certainly appreciate the frustration that some of your are feeling right now. Things are getting better though (yes there will be people who don’t feel this way), and will continue to do so going forward. Right now, we’re looking at small evolutionary steps, rather than revolutionary advances; but with time, we’ll get there.

(Crytiqal) #131

How about an idea tracker where you just dump in your ideas, people can vote for the idea up or down, and a dev can tick it off for being read/reviewed/taken into consideration and then a link to the forum topic its being discussed at.

(Seanza) #132

It’s too easy for you guys to say “we are listening to your feedback” but this does nothing really, at least for me. I appreciate you’ve come into this whole thing half way through so it is probably not going to be apparent to you how the mood has changed throughout development. The majority of us (if not all) who have been testing this game since day 1 have all felt the downward trend in quality over the last 6 - 9 months. There is nothing exciting or new to be playing with in Dirty Bomb.

Things have slowed down since Nexon have come on board. These canned messages we’re getting from both yourselves and Nexon are causing patience to wear thin, before you know it you won’t even have a playerbase to help you with your “shaped by gamers” game…

(Glottis-3D) #133

some things are adressed, some are partly adressed, some are anti-adressed.

nerfing good mercs and getting rid of class-objects were the most disapointing things that happened to DB.
i.e. game went into the opposite direction, to what 99% of testers had asked.

and feedback on feedback - is realy a weak point here.
maybe i want too much from SD, but i need a dialog. because - this obvious for me - a good dialog will help the game much more than bunch of monologs.

(Glottis-3D) #134

oh, and yes, almost forgot.

an idiotic region block to russians, belarusians and ukrainians

(Raviolay) #135

The compromise that would of worked, has been asked for before by others ages ago. Introduce armour into the game and have it replenish-able by a class (archetype) of mercenary. You could give armour to the FOPS type mercenary and hand the FOPS airstrikes to the COVOPS…

(Seanza) #136

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;512118]oh, and yes, almost forgot.

an idiotic region block to russians, belarusians and ukrainians[/QUOTE]

This x100000000000000000.

(spookify) #137

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;512117]some things are adressed, some are partly adressed, some are anti-adressed.

nerfing good mercs and getting rid of class-objects were the most disapointing things that happened to DB.
i.e. game went into the opposite direction, to what 99% of testers had asked.

and feedback on feedback - is realy a weak point here.
maybe i want too much from SD, but i need a dialog. because - this obvious for me - a good dialog will help the game much more than bunch of monologs.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with that… I was spamming the forums not to nerf Saw and phoenix back in the day. I was getting huge push back on why SD was going to nerf them and then boom they also nerfed their abilities… That whole health Regan and medic pack stop healing after 1 bullet was a huge turn off… You could instantly see team work drop off and it turn into a spam run in and die fest… Then to make it worse everyone got the ability to do objectives so every merc was a rambo merc…

I remember it in my head when SD said something in the lines of Medics are not going to be the main kills and I was like OK fine give them a gun that is technically weaker BUT if rolled heads a good player should be able to beat a fragger… But then they nerfed medic packs also and the ability to keep yourself a live.

We lost so many people it feels like when that patch or patches when through…

It’s simple:
SD, you need to make medics strong… They lead the way and set up a SW game style… You praise Merlinator on Facebook for this CUP videos of ET and if you sit back an look you see why that game was so great and fun to watch… Teamwork… Strong medics supporting other classes… You have many other classes in DB and can you imagine if medics support them like they did in ET? Right now there is no reason to gib in DB!!! Thats one of the biggest things in SW game mode! The fundamentals and heart of the shaped by gamers with an ET ET:QW flare is gone… TTK is both to short and to long, no teamwork, no gibbing and much more… What Glottis states above is when we were riding high and the game had an ET ET:QW and RTCW feel that made us buy into this game… We the founders at that point thought we had a general idea of where they game was going and we honestly thought we were making it better. Then BOOM these large changes were made that didnt really fit anything and we were like wtf, we will test it but when those patches were release SD also said that if these changes do not work they can always go back…

GO BACK!!
GO Back to Teamwork!
Go back to simple but with a modern flare.
Go back to SD basics and the glory of ET (Esports) and expand upon it but done loss the soul of what made RTCW and ET great…

You lost the soul!!!

(BomBaKlaK) #138

[QUOTE=Silvanoshi;512114]Map design. Again this is an area in which we’ve made considerable attempts to incorporate community feedback. We had plenty of people wanting maps to be less linear, and do a better job of supporting trick jumps (among other things). Dome does just that. It’s not perfect any means. There’re still plenty of improvements to be made, but I would hope that most people can see that we’re very much trying to incorporate community feedback there.

Private servers…that’s another tricky one…it hasn’t been forgotten and we’re seeing what can be done.
.[/QUOTE]

bla bla bla …

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;512117]some things are adressed, some are partly adressed, some are anti-adressed.

nerfing good mercs and getting rid of class-objects were the most disapointing things that happened to DB.
i.e. game went into the opposite direction, to what 99% of testers had asked.

and feedback on feedback - is realy a weak point here.
maybe i want too much from SD, but i need a dialog. because - this obvious for me - a good dialog will help the game much more than bunch of monologs.[/QUOTE]

This ! nothing more to say.

(INF3RN0) #139

Well here’s where I differ from most SD vets… I can accept that SD is sticking to certain changes ie agnostic objs, etc, which won’t matter to a new player. In fact a lot of changes aren’t inherently bad, they are just different. They are however lackluster and need a lot of refining to replace the old stuff with something equally as weighted. Take the agnostic main obj mechanic for example… do you really think the game will suddenly improve that much? We had them before and with proficiencies I honestly find the difference to be negligible, but it’s not to say that it can’t be refined further nor does it need to apply to secondaries. Same thing with maps… they used to be longer, but that was it. It’s obviously hard for a lot of people to identify what is causing issues these beyond the specific details they are already used to. Point being that we haven’t even begun to exhaust potential for improvement and there’s plenty of ways to make something work well, as long as you’re willing to accept that ‘good different’ is still ‘good’ of course.

What I’d like to see is SD mock up a list of permanent features and perhaps an itinerary of the things that they do and do not want included. It’s awful for anyone motivated towards wanting to offer insight on improvements that fit into SD’s agenda when we have no idea what that is. I also think they’d be more inclined to converse in more detail once more if the mindset amongst all of the players was to find the potential in what we have now instead of pretending to be expert game designers (most of which is just copy+paste from an old game we liked derp).

What I’d like to know from SD for example… and more in terms of what changes (not content) we might realistically see within the next 6months instead of ‘we’d like to do this’. Just helps to know what to focus on.

EX.

Mercs; How do you plan to add further definition? More impacting perks? Movement? More abilities? Counter abilities? Synergies? Passives? Ultimates?

Maps; What kinds of obj types do you plan to stick with? Do you plan on expanding upon or experimenting with obj mechanics? Are you against forward spawns? What role do you want side objectives to serve? How can we give better feedback or ideas on maps that fit within your constraints?

Answers to questions like these are what I’d like to know. I’m not going to spend my time arguing on completely opinion based topics like SW sucks or medics should be stronger or agnostic objs will never work, etc. I want to know where feedback is wanted and can realistically impact the game, and the extent to which work can be done in that area currently. If I know these things then I can focus my feedback and keep my ideas and suggestions within realistic and relevant bounds. Otherwise if we shouldn’t bother with spontaneous stuff, then please just say so and give us very specific Q&A surveys :tongue:.

(tokamak) #140

I can see why they do it though. Without showing their hand they’ll receive unfiltered feedback on the current state. The moment they start elaborating on their plans people will strategically adjust and compensate their feedback to match it with their own agenda. Testers can be very dramatic if it suits their own goals.

But you’re entirely right that currently it feels like studying an elephant with a microscope and that requires a lot of guess work on the tester’s end.