Class Limitations - Setting up a League

(MaD-DoG) #1

Is there a way to limit the number of people that can play a class in a match, similar to the way team fortress can do it? This would simply and quickly fix a number of issues for clan play. Such as preventing a team having 5 field ops or 5 medics or 5 panzerfaust’s and stacking that situation in the game at the time …

Example: Sugested class limitations for 7v7
Class ~ min / max
Cvops ~ 0 / 2 players
Engineer ~ 0 / 3 players
Field Ops ~ 0 / 2 players
Medic ~ 0 / 2 players
Soldier ~ 0 / 2 players

So a team could have makeup such as:
3 Engineers, 2 Medics, 2 Soldier = 7
2 Engineers, 2 Medics, 1 Soldier, 1 FieldOp, 1 Cvop =7

etc etc

Lil help please… much appreciated

(kotkis) #2

Why do you want class-limits? I thought that they limit the number of possible tactics. I understand that due the huge artillery and A/S spam you want limit the amount of FieldOps, but I don’t see any other needs for this. In vanilla RtCW, ClanBase limited the number of Panzerfausts to one, but since the PF isn’t such a “over powered” weapon anymore I think this is needless. Perhaps you could tell us what are these “issues for clan play”.

(Kendle) #3

There’s also the existing facility of limiting the effectiveness of Heavy Weapons Classes. the server-side cvar g_heavyweaponsrestriction allows you to limit the number of Air-Strikes (for instance) that Field-Ops can launch, irrespective of the number of Field-Ops on the team, thereby negating the need to limit numbers.

Besides, as Kotkis says, by limiting Classes you limit the range of available strats the team can deploy. I’d see this as being detrimental to Clan games, not a bonus. The only exception I’d make is to Panzer’s, but I’ve yet to see how this will pan out in E.T. In RTCW multi-Panzer defences = boring games often leading to a draw. I’m not sure this will be the case in E.T. (maps are already biased towards defending team, so 2 equal matched teams are likely to draw anyway).

(Ragnar_40k) #4

Limiting classes would be nice for public servers. As is it now, you sometimes have a team, where 50% are snipers (and they dont spot mines or destroy defences).

(Zan) #5

Non limited CO situation 6 useless snipers, one good CO.

Limited CO = 3 situation. Possible outcome:
3 useless snipers
3 useless panzers/FO/Flamers/…
1 good player who wanted to play a good CO and has to stick with something else.

I don’t see the improvement.

(Zan) #6

…Or you do have in mind some way of limiting classes that would give choice first to better players.

I really think a noob who likes snipers will cause less problems being a sniper than having to choose another class he doesn’t even know.

(Ragnar_40k) #7

E.g. on a public server with 12 players per side you would only have 3 useless cov ops per team and not 6. Thats an advantage. And if the other 3 players, who can’t play cov ops, choose another classes - good. They will a least draw some fire and don’t stand back hiding somewhere. And limiting classes via cvars would be an “option”, so server admins can turn it off anyways and leave it as it is now.

(Ragnar_40k) #8

A good player should be able to play any class (although he may have his prefered class). So, when a player never tries to play other classes than cov ops, then he will never become a good player.

(Zan) #9

E.g. on a public server with 12 players per side you would only have 3 useless cov ops per team and not 6. Thats an advantage. And if the other 3 players, who can’t play cov ops, choose another classes - good. They will a least draw some fire and don’t stand back hiding somewhere. And limiting classes via cvars would be an “option”, so server admins can turn it off anyways and leave it as it is now.[/quote]

You are right. I had not seen the part of drawing fire instead of hiding, being even more useless.

However this would require more thinking over what is worse, a hidden noob aiming a corner where no enemy will ever be or a noob trying to find out what the can with funny blue smoke does. Or loving the smell of burning teammate flesh in the morning.

But you still have to consider that the limit can block a class to a good player too. Having all 3 engineers used by noobs and not being able to take one to defuse the dinamyte can be frustrating. Same with no good FO to give ammo, no good medic to heal, no good CO to open the backdoor.

(Zan) #10

A good player should be able to play any class (although he may have his prefered class). So, when a player never tries to play other classes than cov ops, then he will never become a good player.[/quote]

Ok, this is really a good point. After all, the noob will eventually have learn what the damn can of airplane-calling-smoke does.

(Ragnar_40k) #11

You could add some kind of teamvote (only teammembers can vote), to swap classes or to vote a player off one class (this vote could be weighted by the current score). Or you could add a point to the fireteam-menu to propose class swapping with another player. Or add an option where the fireteam-admin can kick a player from a class (he can already warn him). This may have some drawbacks, since not all players always inside a fireteam, but it would be better than nothing.

(Rippin Kitten) #12

Putting anything to a vote on a server is always the very, very last option that should be tried. Just look how effective the shuffle_xp vote is on horroribly stacked teams. =)

Personally I think class limits will simply cause more trouble than they will solve. Yes, players should learn how to play other classes. But forcing them to do so is detrimental to pub play. First off, it would be better for a decent sniper to stay a decent sniper than become a clueless medic. Secondly, if a player wants to become well rounded he’ll probably do this on his own. Forcing people into other classes would mean they’re taking up another class slot that could be filled by a better player. Third, you run the risk of the griefer who starts tking all of the covert ops on his team hoping one of them will change or drop and he can take that slot. And that, I think, is much more harmful than 6 coverts on a 12 person team.

Also, if you want to promote players learning all the classes, putting caps on them will hurt this too. Obviously covert ops slots will be eaten up quickly, so if a new player had the oppertunity to be a covert he might pass it up thinking that he’d be hurting the team since a more skilled player couldn’t take the slot.

For clan play I think the idea is to limit the panzer defence, to which the server setting provides a solution. For pub servers I think the best option is to give players the freedom to choose the class they like. Six coverts will have a hard time getting XP, and one of them trying to XP whore will figure out they could score many more points being a field op, medic, or engie instead.

RK

(Sick Boy) #13

Actually, clanbase limited the number of panzerfausts to 3.

([B]Visa) #14

Class limits in pubs… wonderful…

Can’t wait to get on a server and be limited to playin med or field ops just like some of the wolf servers…

Only thing that bothers me about class limits is seeing some asshat goin covert or panzer and doin’ not even half the job I could :confused:

Not sayin’ I’m super special or anything… There’s just a lot of asshats out there :disgust:

Ike-T

(kotkis) #15

Actually, clanbase limited the number of panzerfausts to 3.[/quote]
Oh, my mistake. Then that must have been some cup or something like that. CB seems to be quite dead for vanilla RtCW anyway :confused:

(DG) #16

heavyweaponresttriction is explained in some depth here, im not aware or any way to restrict other classes/weapons.

iirc CB is, or is at least considering, limiting panzer to 1 in both rtcw & ET next season.

(MaD-DoG) #17

:bash: !! This question was to do with limitations in CLAN MATCHES and LEAGUE GAMES only !! :bash:

you guys got waaaaayy off track :banghead: this question has nothing to do with pub :beer: servers.

The question on how to limit the number of players that can use a class in a CLAN match, is so that a coordinated and skilled CLAN can’t stall, spam and stalemate a map as easily as are doing so now. But still give the CLANs plenty of tactical options as far as the makeup of their side in a CLAN MATCH or LEAGUE GAME.

Example: Sugested example of class limitations for 7v7

Class ~ min / max
Cvops ~ 0 / 2 players
Engineer ~ 0 / 3 players
Field Ops ~ 0 / 2 players
Medic ~ 0 / 2 players
Soldier ~ 0 / 2 players

So some examples of how a team makeup could be under this:
3 Engineers, 2 Medics, 2 Soldier = 7
2 Engineers, 2 Medics, 1 Soldier, 1 FieldOp, 1 Cvop =7
1 Engineer, 2 Medics, 2 Soldiers, 2 Fieldops = 7

This still gives them numerous side makeups and tactical options but nothing that makes them impossible to breakthrough especially for the defending side on the map.

Ta for those who replied constructively :clap:

P.S Panzerfaust is still very much a uber powerful weapon

(Kendle) #18

I still don’t see the benefit. Assuming they’re playing Stopwatch, whatever benefits one team benefits the other, i.e. if Team A can stall, spam and stalemate a map (when defending presumably), so can Team B when it’s their turn (to defend).

I think the real issue is that some of the maps are not properly balanced. I’ve proposed, as have others, that the defending team’s respawn time should be increased to give the attacking team an advantage, as currently most maps are biased towards the defending team. This would go further to alleviating stalemates, imo.

(MaD-DoG) #19

If you’ve never had to go against 5 medics in an organised match, it wouldn’t matter how balanced the map was the defending team wouldn’t respawn they’d just get revived.

(Majin) #20

You are saying they should implement this wacky idea because you don’t know how to GIB PEOPLE?

Dude… it takes 2-3 bullets to gib someone, learn to do it with every kill.