Well, being that it’s entirely visual and not something you actually “feel,” in a game, I think it’s a fair way to gauge it. Besides, SD games are well known for their under-application of recoil, apparently, because any time I’ve raised this issue before I’ve been met with “let an SD game be an SD game, man blah blah blah”
Brink weapons
Shadowcat
(Shadowcat)
#162
I think its more the fact that giving shotguns to lights would make them have to rebalance the weapon in a way that they didn’t want to.
If lights could carry it, it would give them the ability to kill people in one hit just by rushing in. So to balance that, they would have to lower the damage, which would put the gun in the position of a secondary weapon for other body types that cant quite compare to main weapons for those body types.
It would change the gun from something that gives a medium player short range dominance to something that is only a very effective backup weapon at close ranges.
They COULD have balanced it that way, but chose not to.
I think if i were developing the game, I would have attempted to include a light pump action, a medium semi-auto, and a heavy full-auto. (But I happen to like shotguns)
Also, I’m not a game designer, and I haven’t been a part of the testing, so who knows exactly why they chose to do it the way they did. This here is just my best attempt at a guess.
Cankor
(Cankor)
#163
Great point. Lights can already supposedly counter heavies by flanking and then knocking them down (like slide tackle or wall hop behind them and then melee), this followed up by a melee strike = a kill. No need to add fast rush in + 1 shot kill to the mix.
IceBrazuca
(IceBrazuca)
#164
Yeah I can see what you mean. One thing they could have done though is maybe make the light shotgun into a double barrel sawed off shotgun like in Team Fortress 2. But make it so it takes:
2 shots of most pellets hitting to down a light.
2 shots of every pellet to down a medium.
2 shots of every pellet and a melee strike to down a heavy.
(This is all in basic no buffs for both the shotgunner and the one taking damage)
The gun should take 3 seconds to reload and half a second between each shot and it should be really loud. (To make it easier to code the reload animation you can only reload after using both shots.)
The gun should also have a really really bad cone of fire, so you practically have to be touching the enemy to hit most pellets.
This way I would guess the gun would actually be underpowered since:
You can only take on one person with it at a time. It would take you 1-2 seconds to kill one person, thus giving that player more than enough time to react and its so loud everyone can hear it and it shows up on radar when you shoot.
The gun would be a niche thing, but it would be awesome to just have it in the game.
Maybe they will do something similar in an upcoming patch, or future game.
DouglasDanger
(DouglasDanger)
#166
That thing is neat I guess, but it wouldn’t make any sense in a game like Brink. I bet the rvolvers in the game, and maybe one of the semi-auto pistols, probably do more damage than a derringer and have have considerably more range/accuracy.
Shadowcat
(Shadowcat)
#167
The gun he pointed out was an over-under .410 bore buckshot pistol, not a “derringer”
On that note, though, some “shotguns” that might be interesting to put in the game:
Jackhammer - http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/jackhammer-e.html
Taurus Judge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge
Ajax_s_Spear
(Ajax's Spear)
#168
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;275164]The gun he pointed out was an over-under .410 bore buckshot pistol, not a “derringer”
On that note, though, some “shotguns” that might be interesting to put in the game:
Jackhammer - http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/jackhammer-e.html
Taurus Judge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge[/QUOTE]
I actually own the 2.5 in cylinder Judge in the 3 in barrel. Great idea for home defense if you were to be woken up groggy in the middle of the night. They also had what they called “mashers” in Borderlands that were basically shotgun revolvers, and those were nicely balanced within the game and work out pretty well.
Shadowcat
(Shadowcat)
#169
I struggle to call the Mashers in borderlands balanced, because they were better than most shotguns or revolvers out to medium range, end game they were crazy powerful. I often chose an uncommon masher over a unique revolver.
It worked in a PvE game, but if it were PvP, the masher’s unbalance would really be a problem.
Ajax_s_Spear
(Ajax's Spear)
#170
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;275167]I struggle to call the Mashers in borderlands balanced, because they were better than most shotguns or revolvers out to medium range, end game they were crazy powerful. I often chose an uncommon masher over a unique revolver.
It worked in a PvE game, but if it were PvP, the masher’s unbalance would really be a problem.[/QUOTE]
Well, they only came in two round cylinders, if I remember correctly, and most had an accuracy of around 80-90 tops. So things like skills and proficiencies probably contributed more to their lethality than anything else. Once you found a way to counter their small mag, like a reload speed bonus of some sort, then yeah they were slightly OP. There’s still plenty of other weapons that could outgun them, depending on who you were playing as and what your skill setup was.
DouglasDanger
(DouglasDanger)
#171
I want to play Brink and shoot guns in Brink. And shoot guns before, during and after parkour. Or maybe parkour before, during and after shooting guns. And then play “pimp your gun.”
Shadowcat
(Shadowcat)
#173
The “masher” attachment was accessory, completely independent of the cylinder. You could have mashers that were 2,3,or 6 shots. Yes, they had low accuracy, but each shot fires 7 bullets with about 50% of the damage of an equivalent revovler. Meaning you only need 2 or 3 to hit to get normal damage.
After medium range you are better off with a more precise weapon, but mashers put out more damage per shot than any other weapon in the game.
Ajax_s_Spear
(Ajax's Spear)
#174
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;275295]The “masher” attachment was accessory, completely independent of the cylinder. You could have mashers that were 2,3,or 6 shots. Yes, they had low accuracy, but each shot fires 7 bullets with about 50% of the damage of an equivalent revovler. Meaning you only need 2 or 3 to hit to get normal damage.
After medium range you are better off with a more precise weapon, but mashers put out more damage per shot than any other weapon in the game.[/QUOTE]
They were usually about 33% of the damage of the non-masher equivalent, per pellet.
I’m not saying that they weren’t powerful, but Hunter’s shotguns could have comparable accuracy, the same amount of pellets, and twice the damage of a masher- not to mention some models like S+S and Atlas having 9-15 round magazines.
And since the accessory slot was taken up by the masher accessory, they could never be elemental, which limited their effectiveness in comparison to other options later in the game and throughout a good part of the DLCs. So they weren’t really the end-all-be-all of close range weapons in BLands- except for The Unforgiven Masher, which is likely the best weapon in the game, especially in the hands of Mordecai.
Either way, they could certainly incorporate them into Brink and balance them however they wished to.
DouglasDanger
(DouglasDanger)
#176
Borderlands looked neat, but the complete nonsense gun designs grated on me. Why in the hell would you make a two shot revolver? That doesn’t make any sense at all. It makes less sense than a three shot revolver, which was the goofiest thing I had seen since the pump action revolver sniper rifle.
Ajax_s_Spear
(Ajax's Spear)
#178
Ed-Zachary. Put that bitch on Brick or Roland, and even Mord would have a difficult time getting the best of it with a masher.
Totally. You know what else was stupid? How the Skags had vertical mouths instead of horizontal ones like real skags do. And I hate how they made the Eridians look, all stereotypical; skinny and blue. Pffft. SO racist!
DouglasDanger
(DouglasDanger)
#180
[QUOTE=Ajax’s Spear;275351]Ed-Zachary. Put that bitch on Brick or Roland, and even Mord would have a difficult time getting the best of it with a masher.
Totally. You know what else was stupid? How the Skags had vertical mouths instead of horizontal ones like real skags do. And I hate how they made the Eridians look, all stereotypical; skinny and blue. Pffft. SO racist![/QUOTE]
I don’t know. I think you are going for “it is fantasy” defense, but Borderlands’s weapons were very much inspired by guns. A two shot revolver is moronic. So is a pump action revolver rifle. Completely illogical.
Brink has neat looking guns. Stylized, but grounded. Their are very believable. They aren’t two-shot revolvers like Borderlands, they don’t seem to being trying too hard like Killzone 3’s guns. I hope the iron sights are better than those in Black Ops.