BRINK suggestions forum

(DarkangelUK) #721

Suggestion: Implement support for Project Natal since it’ll be released round about the same time. I want to jump over my living room sofa and slide under the table!

(H0RSE) #722

That might work in Europe, but over here in the states, there’s way too many fat kids. Hospitals would be overwhelmed.

(Stroggafier) #723

Yes, @HORSE, I didn’t want to get into a full-assed attempt, so indeed, it was a half-assed attempt at mockery. :rolleyes:

I believe you would be one of the few that holds that KB+M have a shorter learning curve than a dual controller. Many would say it is the other way around.

The accuracy you speak of is in the difference between “how” the mouse works versus how joysticks work, not due to their “sensitivity” settings. I.e. The mouse has a stationary reference, whereas the joysticks centre to a moving (0,0) point on an (x,y) grid. There is no question that we can use a mouse with greater accuracy than we can with puny thumb controls. (And before you comment, yes, this is another half-assed attempt at mockery) But, that isn’t the point. Accuracy, like movement speed, is “relative” to the opponent accuracy and speed - so adjust the game dynamics accordingly. And accuracy is only one of the fun factors. Jumping, sliding, flying, etc are also important.

(darthmob) #724

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206156]And accuracy is only one of the fun factors. Jumping, sliding, flying, etc are also important.[/QUOTE]The thing is that in a competitive skill based multiplayer FPS accuracy is incredibly important. That’s why some players hate autoaim and random spread. They simply destroy the competitiveness.

Nevertheless I do agree that KB+M can be rubbish for other genres. Three days ago I had a look at the Wings of Prey Demo. There are so many buttons you have to use that it makes you wish to have 4 arms! I think it may be impossible to play properly with KB+M. :smiley:

(Stroggafier) #725

Agreed. Accuracy is very important fun factor, if not the single most important one in the FPS “shooter” games we have known. But, does it have to be that way? Are there no FPS games where accuracy is not the most important aspect of game play, such as in sword and hammer FPS games, and can we not apply something from those types of FPS formats?

To gain that extra edge, competitors may also be reducing graphic quality, using super sensitive input devices, and may even be tempted to cheat. It would seem to me that the competitive arena is not really where developers would want to aim their product. Let the die-hards aim there.

(SockDog) #726

You know the difference between a PC and a console? I can plug the 360 controller into my PC and play the game it way it was designed rather than expecting the developer to fudge the gameplay and controls then delude myself into thinking it’s a better experience for it.

How about we just get a fecking choice? If M+KB is so inferior and unnecessary how comes the second it’s suggested as an option on a console release everyone wets themselves over how unfair it is, or how it’s practically cheating because it’s nothing like using a block of cheddar to play an FPS.

I enjoy FPS with M+KB, I’ve played FPS games on consoles and found the experience frustrating even when I became comfortable with the controls. I shouldn’t need to forget how good another control method is to invest in another. Sorry but I believe controllers have largely gained acceptance through apathy, ignorance and primarily convenience.

(Stroggafier) #727

Not sure what your point is SockDog. Can you be more direct? :smiley:

I have also played games using either of two input devices and my preference is the dual stick controller. In ETQW I have even gone as far as setting up multiple controller profiles, autoexecs, cvars and parms…just to verify the difference. I have discovered, to no ones great shock, that having a dual stick controller available along with a KB+M is advantageous.

Hence, one area where we do agree, is that “more” is better than “less” when it comes to choice of controls.

(SockDog) #728

So when the PS3 has M+KB support but developers don’t use it I get a little frustrated. If every PS3 FPS game had a M+KB mode perhaps more people would try. Perhaps then Sony and MS would add something like a tracker ball to their next controller. Perhaps I’ll have to stop repeating myself in forums like a chattering monkey on speed.

And seeing as Brink is being developed for all three platforms surely putting in the PC M+KB code into the PS3 wouldn’t be such a chore? :slight_smile:

(Exedore) #729

When I was younger, my dream was to create a neural interface, I was accepted to good neuroscience programs and all that jazz. Then I listened to Ferris Bueller, so now I just chill and wait for somebody else to invent it.

Sony has a vested interest in pushing the DualShock controllers. Innovating interface methods is a very costly proposition, and we’re still really in a global recession. Nintendo timed it excellently in getting their R&D done much earlier and getting to market, while MS and Sony are playing catch-up and won’t time nearly as well.

(tokamak) #730

The big advantage of consoles is that you DON’T have to use a mouse and keyboard and can just hang back on a bank. Yes we know M+KB is superior, that’s why making it optional for everyone means that everyone will have to pull themselves in awkward positions with mouses on a bank again if they want to stand a chance.

(DoubleDigit) #731

[QUOTE=SockDog;206258]So when the PS3 has M+KB support but developers don’t use it I get a little frustrated. If every PS3 FPS game had a M+KB mode perhaps more people would try. Perhaps then Sony and MS would add something like a tracker ball to their next controller. Perhaps I’ll have to stop repeating myself in forums like a chattering monkey on speed.

And seeing as Brink is being developed for all three platforms surely putting in the PC M+KB code into the PS3 wouldn’t be such a chore? :)[/QUOTE]

The game should also state something like “you can get a mouse and a keyboard for your ps3 and you’ll seriously kick ass”. :armadillochase:

(Tanzverbot) #732

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206188]? Are there no FPS games where accuracy is not the most important aspect of game play, such as in sword and hammer FPS games, and can we not apply something from those types of FPS formats?
[/QUOTE]

In which FPS do you shoot swords and hammers? And how would that even make a difference? You’d still need to shoot accurately, no matter the graphical design of the bullets.

A dual stick controller? Advantegeous? In ETQW? Wut?! :confused:

(Exedore) #733

You mean you have to use your hands?

(tokamak) #734

Rune has fps like accuracy for it’s swords, hence you can chop off specific limbs with that.

If you want an fps that has zero importance in accuracy, then it would be games like Starward Galaxies and Endless Ages.

(murka) #735

Even in a melee fps game you’d need to make a fast and accurate turn, not possible with any controller. I know of only 1 such game right now, and that’s Rune.

(darthmob) #736

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206188]Agreed. Accuracy is very important fun factor, if not the single most important one in the FPS “shooter” games we have known. But, does it have to be that way? Are there no FPS games where accuracy is not the most important aspect of game play, such as in sword and hammer FPS games, and can we not apply something from those types of FPS formats?[/QUOTE]I wouldn’t say it’s the most important fun factor. It’s just that better aim mechanics result in less frustration. GTA IV on xbox360 for example is utterly horrible and frustrating to play because of the awful autoaim and general feel when shooting.

Aiming is a core mechanic of a FPS and especially in a multiplayer FPS it’s important to get the basics right. Having flawed basic controls can ruin the whole experience. Good aim mechanics alone don’t make a good game, though. There is so much more that adds to the enjoyment of a game.

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206188]
To gain that extra edge, competitors may also be reducing graphic quality, using super sensitive input devices, and may even be tempted to cheat. It would seem to me that the competitive arena is not really where developers would want to aim their product. Let the die-hards aim there.[/QUOTE]I don’t want to comment on that. It’s one of those debates which never come to an end.

[QUOTE=murka10;206280]Even in a melee fps game you’d need to make a fast and accurate turn, not possible with any controller. I know of only 1 such game right now, and that’s Rune.[/QUOTE]Have a look at Age of Chivalry! It’s a total conversion HL2 mod which features medieval combat. It’s not that easy to play as you have to learn how to properly swing a sword / hammer / axe / halberd (there are three basic attacks but you have to move your character and the mouse in a right way to land good hits) and aim with bow / crossbow. It can be really rewarding to crush your enemy’s head with a well aimed swing of your giant warhammer. :smiley:

(Stroggafier) #737

Yes @Tanzverbot, KB+M for most movement and aiming and Cordless RumblePad 2 (Logitech TM) for flyers and Desi in ETQW. A shift key for mapping 22 functions means quite an extensive capability between your palms. All working at the same time, too.

Accuracy is not an all or none proposition. Its relative accuracy that’s important. Hence, there is zooming with sights, crouching, prone, 3rd person view and other movement mechanics, there is tracking, hitbox size, opponent speed and other software aids. There is spread, hit damage, blurring, and other weapon mechanics. All of these can be balanced to make a dual stick controller very effective.

Another big advantage of a cordless controller is no tether and no table required. Play poolside if you like.

I’m liken the neural interface @Exedore - can you get back on it, please! :wink:

@Darthmob, although you say accuracy is not the most important aspect of FPS, but then you go on to argue that it is???

(Tanzverbot) #738

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;206336]Yes @Tanzverbot, KB+M for most movement and aiming and Cordless RumblePad 2 (Logitech TM) for flyers and Desi in ETQW. A shift key for mapping 22 functions means quite an extensive capability between your palms. All working at the same time, too.
[/QUOTE]

Well ok, but you said using a gamepad is an advantage. In reality it is a disadvantage. That’s the opposite of an advantage. Look at any decent pilot, anyone who has ever done well in a Dogfight Tourney. Look at any competition level Tanker ever since the game has been released. Not a single one of them uses a gamepad. There is a reason for that.

(tokamak) #739

It’s only a disadvantage if there are better alternatives, if everyone uses the gamepad it’s all balanced.

(Tanzverbot) #740

That’s an astonishing insight.