BRINK suggestions forum

[tokamak]

Brink has the advantage of being a semi-mmorpg, you want to be part of the rat race and building characters, playing on hacked servers is a bit rubbish in that sense.

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=BioSnark;204381]Which is what IW was trying to prevent in CoD6 with the consolized multiplayer options, unless I’m mistaken. I wasn’t trying to argue any side, just clarifying what some of the game industry has against LAN support.

A fair portion of my multiplayer gaming has been over LANs and I consider it a feature when developers respect their paying customers enough to include it despite the cost. I wouldn’t say it’s worth it to them, however.[/QUOTE]Yeah you are right. It’s just such a shame that features get removed and at the same time advertised as a better playing experience.

I remember that one of the Colin McRae Rallies had a special lan mode. You could play with seven friends on one copy of the game when choosing the lan install. I could imagine a similar system with Brink. Simply restrict the possible level / unlocks the players can reach. It works quite well for Hack&Slash games. Get the people hooked and when they are in the midst of gaining levels and unlocking cool new stuff tell them “Hey buddy, you can still play but you won’t get any experience points / unlocks anymore with this limited install. But if you buy the game now you will get your unlocks and you’ll be able to continue playing right from where you left off!” and provide a link to Steam or whatever. I have been lured into buying two games I didn’t plan to buy that way.

[QUOTE=tokamak;204387]Brink has the advantage of being a semi-mmorpg, you want to be part of the rat race and building characters, playing on hacked servers is a bit rubbish in that sense.[/QUOTE]If the character progress gets saved what does the player who won’t pay for a game care?

[tokamak]

That means he can’t show off his progress to his friends and other people. This is the basic principle all mmorpgs are stooled on and the reason why there’s no triving ‘hack’ community.

[Florisjuh]

That means he can’t show off his progress to his friends and other people. This is the basic principle all mmorpgs are stooled on and the reason why there’s no triving ‘hack’ community.

Actually there are plenty of people playing games such as World of Warcraft on cracked servers.

[tokamak]

Compared to the 11 million active accounts?

[SockDog]

IMO this whole, embed an RPG in the FPS genre thing sucks. Instead of making a team based FPS you spend a huge amount of resources* putting in some persistent character system, then work out ways of attaching an XP economy to it and finally put an ultimately flawed system of rules in place to try and prevent it from breaking the FPS it should have been in the first place.

It’s like some gross mutation of a scoring system that’s gotten bigger than the actual game.

I accept I’m in a minority. I accept this is something SD is doing and I’m over it before it’s even begun. I just really don’t care for the whole e-peen candy that gets thrown around these days in the name of “gameplay”.

*which could be spent including more content, better tools, expanded features and lots of polish.

Sorry. /Friday_Rant

[H0RSE]

[QUOTE=SockDog;204413]IMO this whole, embed an RPG in the FPS genre thing sucks. Instead of making a team based FPS you spend a huge amount of resources* putting in some persistent character system, then work out ways of attaching an XP economy to it and finally put an ultimately flawed system of rules in place to try and prevent it from breaking the FPS it should have been in the first place.

It’s like some gross mutation of a scoring system that’s gotten bigger than the actual game.

I accept I’m in a minority. I accept this is something SD is doing and I’m over it before it’s even begun. I just really don’t care for the whole e-peen candy that gets thrown around these days in the name of “gameplay”.

*which could be spent including more content, better tools, expanded features and lots of polish.

Sorry. /Friday_Rant[/QUOTE]

I’m sure the game will get lots of polish, regardless of it was pure FPS or FPS/RPG hybrid. And better tools, more content, expanded features? If it only 1 genre (FPS) you can only put so much into it before you cover all the bases. You can only add so much, before you are just adding stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, without adding any real substance. The RPG features they are tying in the game ARE the expanded features, and more content.

[SockDog]

I’m sure the game will get lots of polish, regardless of it was pure FPS or FPS/RPG hybrid. And better tools, more content, expanded features? If it only 1 genre (FPS) you can only put so much into it before you cover all the bases. You can only add so much, before you are just adding stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, without adding any real substance. The RPG features they are tying in the game ARE the expanded features, and more content.

“Jack of all trades, master of none”

Polishing a game with a complicated RPG system and related baggage is going to be a lot harder than polishing an FPS game on it’s own. I guarantee that within the first day of Brink’s release there will be behavior on servers that is detrimental to gameplay but beneficial to the individual player.

I think SMART is a pretty innovative move for an FPS and certainly isn’t a “Lets tack tits on it” popularity based addition.

The RPG stuff is by definition superfluous to a multi-player FPS game. It’s a virtual carrot that does little more than change a scoreboard of kills into a beast of stats and graphics for the A.D.D. crowd to chew on like a herd of cows.

It’s a means to give a game longevity by creating a long term goal because gamers will become bored playing the same 10 maps over and over just to win or lose. Give their character a pair of plastic boobs for playing the same map 500 times and they’ll lap it up.

Bah. I’m just being grumpy. I know SD are by far one of the best developers out there and they’ll work their balls off to make the game stunning. Just don’t agree that this actually makes the game any better at it’s core.

[H0RSE]

Polishing a game with a complicated RPG system and related baggage is going to be a lot harder than polishing an FPS game on it’s own. I guarantee that within the first day of Brink’s release there will be behavior on servers that is detrimental to gameplay but beneficial to the individual player.

SD already has experience in the FPS field, and Brink’s FPS element is based off the formula they know so well. So I’m pretty certain that at least the FPS portion of the game will be tip-top. And for the RPG stuff, I think SD is compitent enough to implement these new features. And I’m sure if they need it, Bethesda will offer help and ideas, seeing as that is their strong point. Yes, all games require patches, but I don’t think SD will release a ‘broken’ game.

The RPG stuff is by definition superfluous to a multi-player FPS game. It’s a virtual carrot that does little more than change a scoreboard of kills into a beast of stats and graphics for the A.D.D. crowd to chew on like a herd of cows.
The RPG aspect is directly connected to the overall gameplay, from body types, to which skills and abilities you choose to use. It is going to add more to the game than just ‘stats and graphics for the A.D.D. crowd.’

It’s a means to give a game longevity by creating a long term goal because gamers will become bored playing the same 10 maps over and over just to win or lose. Give their character a pair of plastic boobs for playing the same map 500 times and they’ll lap it up.
Look at games like Quake 3, UT, RTCW, W:ET, QW, CS, COD, Halo, etc. the list goes on and on of games where people ‘play the same maps over and over.’ It is much deeper than just a pair of plastic boobs. It is taking the FPS genre and adding a deep new gameplay aspect to it, without taking away from what it is at its core…an FPS. I don’t see it as an FPS with RPG elements built in. I see it more as a total package; 1 large, complete product, rather than 2 separate aspects in one product.

[BioSnark]

Compared to the 11 million active accounts?

Blizzard obviously doesn’t consider it insignificant if they took LAN out of the latest Starcraft. Anyway, if character data is stored locally I know for a fact that people coughmecough will be happy to eliminate opens notepad that aspect of the game.

[SockDog]

You don’t need to sell me on SD, I have great respect for them and wouldn’t believe they’d release a crappy game. That said, being a quality developer doesn’t mean I expect them to develop the game I want.

I’d argue bodytypes, skills and abilities are innovations on the FPS theme. Attaching them (which I don’t believe SD is doing in Brink?) to persistent XP buildup is the RPG stuff I’m not all that excited about. When people are playing to buff their character or get a stat position the actual game will suffer no matter how many hours SD will invest to ensure otherwise.

Yes those games offer great depth so why add RPG elements? Because gaming seems to be progressing towards a more definable finite experience. You don’t play the game to enjoy the game you play the game for achievements/gamerscore or to improve this stat or gain that rank. The game becomes a tool to progress a character and so the game is no longer something to enjoy, it’s something to endure for enjoyment.

Again, I’m being cantankerous and it’s unfair to do so on SD’s forums.

[Ragoo]

Yes those games offer great depth so why add RPG elements? Because gaming seems to be progressing towards a more definable finite experience. You don’t play the game to enjoy the game you play the game for achievements/gamerscore or to improve this stat or gain that rank. The game becomes a tool to progress a character and so the game is no longer something to enjoy, it’s something to endure for enjoyment.

Let all the casual gamers have fun with their XPs and we will play some good old FPS on the custom servers, right? : D

I hope it will be like that

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=SockDog;204426]I’d argue bodytypes, skills and abilities are innovations on the FPS theme. Attaching them (which I don’t believe SD is doing in Brink?) to persistent XP buildup is the RPG stuff I’m not all that excited about. When people are playing to buff their character or get a stat position the actual game will suffer no matter how many hours SD will invest to ensure otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

You’re confusing the path with the goal. In both ET’s people worked feverishly to quickly get the upgrades they needed to be the most effective in their role on the battlefield.

Same will happen in Brink but instead of 3 or 6 map campaigns it will be an infinite map campaign.

There is a valid point in that this game shouldn’t turn into a race to the end game. Locking down specialisation paths and not allowing players to re-take steps once taken (or only at a substantial cost) will really boost the replay value as people will need to start again on new characters to get a completely different built character instead of having an over-saturated guy that can simply make a selection out of all his unlocks.

I heard that there were plans for allowing players to raise characters faster after their first character has been ‘completed’. I’m not really in favour of this. It would be better to have them start again and walk the long road again than to gratify them quickly again.

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=SockDog;204426]Yes those games offer great depth so why add RPG elements? Because gaming seems to be progressing towards a more definable finite experience. You don’t play the game to enjoy the game you play the game for achievements/gamerscore or to improve this stat or gain that rank. The game becomes a tool to progress a character and so the game is no longer something to enjoy, it’s something to endure for enjoyment.

Again, I’m being cantankerous and it’s unfair to do so on SD’s forums.[/QUOTE]Cantankerous - never heard that one before! That’s a rather pessimistic view but I think there’s truth in it. But then does it matter for Brink? You said that things get taken away from the core but what if they don’t? Don’t you think you can have a solid core and add all the other stuff on top? Shouldn’t it be possible to enjoy the game and have finite progress to cater to what seems to be the majority of players nowadays?

I’m convinced that I can enjoy character progress and the game at the same time. If I like playing the game and get additional stuff to play with along the way it’s fine for me. The only thing I fear is that it might lead people into grinding. It seems to be normal for a MMO but I don’t like it at all. It’s such a mindless and senseless activity which adds nothing to the experience. In case of a team based game it can even lessen the experience. I don’t want to see people blowing up turrets which would never have harmed anyone or construct MG nests which would never have been used or play in any other way that doesn’t help the team at all just because it happens to give them more XP.

[QUOTE=tokamak;204452]You’re confusing the path with the goal. In both ET’s people worked feverishly to quickly get the upgrades they needed to be the most effective in their role on the battlefield.[/QUOTE]And it somewhat worked because it was only possible to get XP by doing the right stuff. A soldier kills enemies, an engineer blows stuff up, a medic heals people and the field ops provides ammo and fire support. In ETQW it didn’t really work out that way as described in the last sentence before your quote. I just hope it will be different with Brink.

[tokamak]

Oh definitely. There were some perverse effects in Quake Wars.

[SockDog]

Yes, I guess in short that is my concern with RPG elements.

The players can’t be trusted to enjoy them in the company of others and the game can’t be altered to the extent required in order to prevent those people from doing it.

Anyway. I just wanted to give a little feedback to show that not everyone wants or needs these to be in game. That they’re not tool to control behavior in game or piracy. in fact in some cases it can be the complete opposite.

In short, LAN support.

[H0RSE]

for those worried about grinding, I would say this would be a single player thing. Someone wants to level up their guy real quick? Just play single player, and they can dick around grind all they want, and no one gets hurt. And about this

“It’s such a mindless and senseless activity which adds nothing to the experience.”

A lot of people enjoy grinding. Of course, if your come from the FPS crowd, you will probably think it is as useless as tits on a bull, but RPG players will find it familiar and enjoyable. And it wouldn’t really be ‘grinding’ in BRINK. Grinding is like killing the same thing over and over, or mining ore over and ove, just to gain xp. Brink doesn’t have like a bunch of low lvl wild boar you can kill over and over again, and then you just wait for respawn. It is still an FPS game. You still need to actually ‘play’ the game to achieve anything.

Also, it’s not like the player with the highest level character, is going to be the most powerful. The goal they are aiming for is that the upgrades and awards will help you specialize in a combat role, and it becomes more and more fun, rather than you becoming more and more powerful. There is a limit to the amount of upgrades and awards that you can use in a match.

The ‘hardcore FPS’ players on here, remind me of old people talking to teenagers…“That music stinks!” (without actually listening to it) Then they find a list of reasons why it stinks, and why Sinatra is the greatest. You guys just sound very close-minded with your, ’ keep your RPG out of my FPS!" and then listing nothing but flaws in the system and any fears you have.

[Florisjuh]

Compared to the 11 million active accounts?

I just know all my WoW playing friends tend to switch between cracked and official depending on how filled their wallet is during that period of time

[tokamak]

for those worried about grinding, I would say this would be a single player thing. Someone wants to level up their guy real quick? Just play single player, and they can dick around grind all they want, and no one gets hurt.

You get twice the xp online.

The ‘hardcore FPS’ players on here, remind me of old people talking to teenagers…“That music stinks!” (without actually listening to it) Then they find a list of reasons why it stinks, and why Sinatra is the greatest. You guys just sound very close-minded with your, ’ keep your RPG out of my FPS!" and then listing nothing but flaws in the system and any fears you have.

There’s a certain sense of protective nostalgia going on here indeed.

[darthmob]

I hope you are right H0RSE.

[QUOTE=tokamak;204481]You get twice the xp online.
There’s a certain sense of protective nostalgia going on here indeed.[/QUOTE]I think the xp boost was a temporary effect to get people from singleplayer to multiplayer. Yeah and it’s easy to get nostalgic.