BRINK suggestions forum

(H0RSE) #521

I didn’t read anywhere that you get 2x XP online, except for when they ‘bribe’ you to try it out. Having 2x XP online would kill the whole ‘it’s the same game SP or MP’ concept they are going for.

(SockDog) #522

Nothing to do with being hardcore or nostalgic. I explained my position earlier in the thread, I just don’t NEED persistent RPG elements in an FPS game to enjoy it. I’m probably in a minority but that doesn’t mean my opinion is any less valid.

(tokamak) #523

Sure, you don’t need to ski on real snow in order to enjoy it, but ET has proven that these RPG elements are a great addition to a shooter.

(SockDog) #524

I think all the farming, arguing and misinterpretation over Stats in ETQW kinda underlines my point that earning XP and pointless RPG elements (ranks) do nothing for the game. All ET has proven is that having a variation of classes and abilities in a game adds depth.

SUGGESTION (granted perhaps not for Brink):
Why not have a L4D style AI in the background to just hand out abilities based on how the two teams are performing and dump the whole XP system down the toilet? At least that way you’d be able to focus on winning the game rather than whoring for XP to get an upgrade.

(MILFandCookies) #525

Unfortunately sockdog, you cant control what people are going to be motivated by. You can however, setup you own matches with people in your friends list who only care about winning or losing. And you can always opt to play in competitive leagues where XP / Ranks play a very insignificant role.

(H0RSE) #526

I am looking forward to see how the RPG elements play out. I enjoy creating characters, gaining xp, leveling up, unlocking new things, etc. but I don’t love it enough to join games just to ‘farm’ xp.

RTCW was the game that REALLY got me into playing MP. I still think RTCW and the ET games are the funnest shooters I have played to date. I love how you can go an entire round without firing your gun, and still contribute significantly to the team. You can’t say that about a lot of other shooters. I was never a ‘front line’ guy. I am going to play the game the way it is meant to be played. I will play with the team, and do what I can to support them as much as I can. I have to much respect for the genre, and the people on my team trying to win, to just go off on my own and grind out xp. This game is taking 2 things I love and combining them, without taking away from either one. At least I hope so…

(darthmob) #527

Didn’t the mission system get compared to L4D. What was the guy called in Brink? The Operator?
I think it is supposed to give the most xp for the most important tasks at hand. It should be possible to guide people into doing the right thing with it. To be honest that’s one issue I didn’t see with the nostalgia glasses on. People running around cluelessly can be as much harm to your team as people who deliberately do stupid stuff.

For example spawning and running off in the completely wrong direction or planting mines where no one would ever step on them or not knowing which was the north / south gun which has just been planted or not even realising that an objective has just been planted. Been there done that (and I’m sure many others have made these mistakes in the early days)! :wink:

That may be one thing that kept me from introducing friends of mine into ET / ETQW. There’s simply too much you have to explain all the time and too much confusion in the beginning to really enjoy the game. If the mission system in Brink manages to ease the introduction without removing depth I’m sure I can wholeheartedly recommend it to other people.

A real suggestion came to my mind as well. If there are mines in Brink I hope it works somewhat like in ETQW. Every engineer has his own number of mines available and if he plants more the oldest gets removed. That’s a lot better than having to backtrack and remove your planted mines or having teammates misplace the team’s contingent. The only thing I didn’t like about ETQW grenades where that you had to use grenades to get rid of them.

(tokamak) #528

Working towards a character and building him with the right specialisations will be far more rewarding than just selecting perks and going with it. The added benefit is also that you get to spent time and appreciate each ‘unlock’ or whatever they’re planning on it’s own before you move on to the next.

It’s the path dependant mode that really appeals to me. Players that think ahead and know what they want will arrive faster at having a character that fits them best than the players who’re just selecting skills ad hoc. That’s the beauty of the RPG element in shooters, or in any game really. A part of the game has already been played before the battle begins.

(zXSwordXz) #529

Hi Rahdo,

I’ve got a suggestion, sorry if it has been mention before but is it possible to have button mapping on the console like TF2? It might be impossible if there are hard coded command key but it never hurt to asked.

(H0RSE) #530

I think he says in an interview that fully mappable buttons are in. Bethesda games are known for it also. I know they aren’t developing the game, but still.

(Mustang) #531

Suggestion/Request (PC related)

Steam and non-Steam keys are interchangable

Put simple, this would allow me to buy Brink at the shops and get a key
I can then use this key to either:
1. Enter it into Steam, download Brink through Steam and play
2. Install from DVD and play without even having Steam installed
3. Both of the above, at the same time, on two different PC’s

(Rahdo) #532

[QUOTE=SockDog;204493]SUGGESTION (granted perhaps not for Brink):
Why not have a L4D style AI in the background to just hand out abilities based on how the two teams are performing and dump the whole XP system down the toilet? At least that way you’d be able to focus on winning the game rather than whoring for XP to get an upgrade.[/QUOTE]
I’m really sensitive to the dangers of introducing things in the game that people can obsess over, to the point of ruining the game for others, and we’re very careful to identify and avoid them. For instance, global leaderboards for stuff like k/d ratios and what not: bad idea, since they disccourage players from taking chances and actually doing what’s necessary to help. So bam! Not having them. I know other games do, and they’re kind of standard, but screw it, not the right thing for Brink.

Same is true for XP. In any case where it introduces whoring behavior, it needs to change. I’ll give you an example. One of our many types of objectives (ET fans will recognize this) is the classic “take the (thing) from X to Y”. So we did have it set up such that while you’re carrying it from X to Y, you’re earning XP, because you’re doing a good job and helping your team. And it’s a nice feeling, seeing the XP accure as your rush along towards your goal. But obviously, that lead to “hmm, I think I’ll hide in a corner for awhile and let the XP rack up for awhile, and then deliver it”, which was bad. And so we changed it to the much more reasonable “you get your XP when you’ve successfully delivered it, and the faster you did so, the more you’ll earn”. So people who really want the XP are encouraged to deliver the thing as quickly as possible. :slight_smile:

(Rahdo) #533

Well to be precise, I said I want them in. No promises yet, but yeah, this stuff is really important. And I’ve always tried to include it in every game I’ve ever done (going back to the original SyphonFilters). It’s just that we haven’t done the GUI work for it yet, and you never know what kinds of problems can spring up, but still, I’m fairly confident.

(tokamak) #534

That’s great to hear. There’s nothing wrong with K/D ratios IF that’s the focus of the game. Shatter Horizon is most of the time mission orientated (simple capture points) but those are simply an excuse to create more interesting battles. The main focus is to kill and survive in space so the most prominent part of the scoreboard is the K/D ratio.

In ET games the shooting was always the means to an end, totally the other way around most games have it. You can contribute to the game in many ways that don’t involve shooting. And players who die a lot can still turn the entire match on it’s head with their actions.

I would be careful with downplaying XP like that. People whoring xp should not be a problem IF the xp is distributed appropriately. Say there was a perfect system that always handed out the right amount of xp to whatever you did. Then there wouldn’t be a difference between a player doing something only for the xp, and a player doing it to win the match regardless of how much xp he would get for it. Whatever their motivations, players won’t ever spoil the fun for others this way.

You guys basically have an economics and governance sandbox on your hands right now. There are politicians who dream of this.

(darthmob) #535

[QUOTE=Rahdo;204830]Same is true for XP. In any case where it introduces whoring behavior, it needs to change. I’ll give you an example. One of our many types of objectives (ET fans will recognize this) is the classic “take the (thing) from X to Y”. So we did have it set up such that while you’re carrying it from X to Y, you’re earning XP, because you’re doing a good job and helping your team. And it’s a nice feeling, seeing the XP accure as your rush along towards your goal. But obviously, that lead to “hmm, I think I’ll hide in a corner for awhile and let the XP rack up for awhile, and then deliver it”, which was bad. And so we changed it to the much more reasonable “you get your XP when you’ve successfully delivered it, and the faster you did so, the more you’ll earn”. So people who really want the XP are encouraged to deliver the thing as quickly as possible. :)[/QUOTE]It’s good to see there are conscious decisions behind XP rewards.

But I’m not sure if getting less XP for a slower delivery is the right way. From my experience the usual approach in clanwars or organized teams is that once you get your hands on the (thing) (:D) you mustn’t allow the enemy to return it at all costs. That usually meant that the carrier hides somewhere near the delivery point and waits for his team to clear the area to then savely bring it home. A cautious and successfull delivery is often better than rushing because a good defense will give you a hard time getting the (thing) in the first place. If you have to wait 20 seconds for the right moment - so be it!

Having XP counting down may lead to lemming like deliveries where all caution is cast aside and people fail again and again just to score the most XP. But then this may just be me thinking too much into it.

(tokamak) #536

Well that’s up to the player eventually. If he cares about the xp then he’ll be forced to make a decision between less xp or taking too much risk and getting no xp at all. It’s a rather good example of how taking risks can be rewarded like that.

(Mustang) #537

QFT

  • Much love :stroggtapir:
(Nail) #538

“For instance, global leaderboards for stuff like k/d ratios and what not: bad idea, since they disccourage players from taking chances and actually doing what’s necessary to help. So bam! Not having them. I know other games do, and they’re kind of standard, but screw it, not the right thing for Brink.”

I drink to your health sir, and may you and your family always have sunshine.

(SockDog) #539

Rahdo. Thanks for the explanation, XP seems to be a necessary evil as it drives a lot of other mechanics, it’s good to know you’re trying to balance it out as best you can and also throwing out some trash along the way.

While nothing to do with Brink I’d be interested in your take on my suggestion RE: substituting XP score to earn rewards with an overall team monitoring AI.

Tok. My issue regarding XP though is that there isn’t a perfect system. Darthmob already gave a situation where even SD’s fine tuning can fail. You can’t just flip flop between, players will play well because they earn XP and players will use their initiative regardless of XP. Unless you remove every freedom in the game the XP model will always fight against innovative play and not prevent abuse.

Merry Christmas to all and may Santa bring Tok 1 millionz XP for being such a good boy. :slight_smile:

(murka) #540

Rather than invent the nuclear bomb and try to find ways of controlling its use and prevent disaster, it’s easier just not to invent it and nothing can go wrong.