shrub introduced the same thing in W:ET, you take the damage that you inflict on a team mate
B: It’s the biggest immersion breaker in the game so far. What kind of doctor finishes off his patient with a shotgun and then takes his defibs out?
the same kind that drops a box on your head to heal you
I was just reading a thread over on the Steam forums (L4D2) about griefers. Their mentality is so self absorbed I’m not sure there is much you can do to punish them. They truly believe there is nothing wrong with what they do as long as they are doing it for fun or because they are bored or as a form of punishment.
The thread I suggested it in here went down like a lead balloon but I’d still like to flag “griefers” in some way. At the very least I’d like a way to “fiend” players I don’t like playing with the same way I can “friend” players I do. They’d be identified to me in server browers and in-game in some way and I can then avoid them.
Kicks/Bans/XP Loss address the immediate symptoms of griefing but they don’t deter someone from doing it. There also needs to be persistent repercussions to address the root cause, that being these people have little regard for other gamers and know the worst that’ll happen to them is a kick or server ban. It’s clear people had issues with the voting system I suggested but I believe the core concept is sound, allow your peers to decide if you are a good or bad gaming citizen.
One of the server options will definitely be friendly fire (which will be off in a standard match).
I’ll have to disagree with this, I think FF should be on for standard match, just like RTCW, W:ET and ET:QW
I think the idea is to be newbie friendly to begin with, which would make FF off the appropriate setting… of course if you have you’re own server then you can turn it on. I imagine there being a fair mix of both for PC, but the consoles will have it off mostly.
Would love a link
Yeah, I believe this is built into Xbox Live matchmaking. If you give a player a thumbs down rating, the system automatically does what it can to keep you away from matches that have that guy in the future, which is cool.
Yeah, I’m not adverse to voting to kick someone in principal, but still, I myself have been voted out of matches several times, not because I was a dick (I’m actually great fun to play with, I think), but because of my low K/D ratio. 
So it’s still problematic.
Sword’s idea of the victim being the one who can kick the dick is interesting, but wouldn’t that just lead to assholes spreading their bile thinly around the team?
Oh come on, handing over health packs I can take, but shooting players as a medical practice is just one step too far. Plus the obvious gameplay problem.
As for TK’s:
It’s really a matter of economics here. Quotas hardly ever work, taxes do.
You want as little team kills in the game as possible . Still TKing and grieving are seperate issues. TKing can be a part of grieving, but it’s also being a part of carelessness and indifference. The careless and indifferent people have only one thing they care about, and that’s their own improvement.
That’s why a hefty xp penalty is very effective here. And just a consistent one as well. Kill a player, lose a big chunk of hard-earned points. Note that Brink is also a scale lower than most W:ET and QW games, it’s not a full scale war, it’s a skirmish, making causalities on your own team is far less acceptable than in the other games.
Yes it would. It gives one player too much power, it simply turns the tables to grievers who can jump into other player’s nades and then wave them goodbye.
Teamkill-grieving would largely be banned out, especially if you make it also that players can go so far as regressing into their progress and be demoted and lose unlocks/talents/perks whatever if they lose more XP to TK’s than they would gain through playing the game.
You can also make the costs of teamkills go up exponentially. So the first might technically be a raised finger, the next fine a normal fine and huge sanctions for everything beyond the third one.
[QUOTE=10chankc2;202981]Brink could try the ricocheting bullets in call of duty hardcore where players take damage when they shoot at their team mates[/QUOTE]Argh I have come to hate teamdamage reflection. I have died way too often because stupid teammates ran into MY line of fire. :rolleyes:
These discussions always make me wonder if I’m playing different games than you guys are. I almost never meet griefers or teamkillers in online matches. I know for sure that I have seen 2 (that is two in words) deliberate teamkillers in more than 70 hours of playing QuakeLive and it’s similar in other games I have played. To me it just doesn’t seem like a real issue that justifies all kinds of weird rules and penalties.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1049008 Enjoy!
Yeah, I believe this is built into Xbox Live matchmaking. If you give a player a thumbs down rating, the system automatically does what it can to keep you away from matches that have that guy in the future, which is cool.
Would also be nice if the guy had a little turd icon or something next to his name too, you know just to you don’t miss it.
Yeah, I’m not adverse to voting to kick someone in principal, but still, I myself have been voted out of matches several times, not because I was a dick (I’m actually great fun to play with, I think), but because of my low K/D ratio.
So it’s still problematic.
I think voting is quite easily abused or manipulated in game and can be harder in vs team games as the other side has less reason to be interested in the vote.
It also triggers off those, “nothing to lose”, griefer moments. By the time you get them off the server they’ve ruined a whole map.
Sword’s idea of the victim being the one who can kick the dick is interesting, but wouldn’t that just lead to assholes spreading their bile thinly around the team?
Well this is sort of what I mean. If you deal with the problem at a match level then the griefer just adapts the annoyances so as to avoid triggering an ability to penalise them. Their worst case, they get kicked and just grief another 15 other players until they’ve had their fill of lulz for the night.
What is needed is some social accountability.
Every time I think about this I come back again to the same thing. If I play with 15 other people I form an opinion right there of who’s good fun and who’s a nob. I should have a way to register that. Then, hopefully, eventually, the act of pissing off people for personal lulz will result in the griefer becoming a pariah. It’s also a very passive solution so doesn’t feed the ego.
You’re counting on the fact that these people care about XP or perks.
You’re right. I guess it just annoys me that dealing with these people when you do meet them only serves to feed them all the more. I’d like an alternative that allows me to ignore them like I would any other anti-social person.
Yes I do. In a game where your progress is consistent people care allot about their character’s status.
Correct for people who want to play the game the way it was intended. Those people aren’t the problem.
Then the players who don’t play as intended are wasting their money on playing an underdeveloped character that nobody cares about.
My intention is to separate team killing from grieving. For grieving there’s always the vote kick.
[QUOTE=tokamak;203006]
You can also make the costs of teamkills go up exponentially. So the first might technically be a raised finger, the next fine a normal fine and huge sanctions for everything beyond the third one.[/QUOTE]
I will never use a nade in BRINK (especially since you can shoot them in mid-air) if this is the case. Nades often accidentally TK even on high level gaming.
But how about the idea I just came up with: The best way to get rid of unfair players is a good server admin but obviously those guys can’t 24/7.
So how about a rating system where players or server admins can give thumbs up for a player who has shown himself to be a fair teamplayer and therefore trustworthy. This guy should then either be able to kick the unfair players by himself or have a big influence on vote kick (maybe depending on how good his reputation is).
This way you would not have the anarchy of a normal vote kick but you would instead create many little vigilantes who handle the matter justly 
Additionally you could make the ‘damage dealt to team’ and ‘tks’ and perhaps the complaints of players public so those vigilantes have a better insight (:
[QUOTE=Ragoo;203017]I will never use a nade in BRINK (especially since you can shoot them in mid-air) if this is the case. Nades often accidentally TK even on high level gaming.
[/QUOTE]
Good! That’s one less careless ass, no offence, less.
Hm, no offense like this ? 
So you never accidentally tk with nades? Or with nade launcher? Congratulations, but I don’t always know the exact position of everyone on my team at any time and so things like that happen. I say ‘sorry’, the victim says ‘np’ and the game goes on. Unless the victim is some whiny person who is like 'f*** you n00b!!!".
edit: What I forgot: Sometimes you stand in a doorway and cook a nade and some other players runs right through the doorway and you have the choice of either kill yourself or him with the nade because he didn’t see you cooking a nade.
Oh I think they intend to get their money’s worth by crapping on your developed character that you care so much about and watching you rage about it.
[QUOTE=tokamak;202976]A: It looks stupid
B: It’s the biggest immersion breaker in the game so far. What kind of doctor finishes off his patient with a shotgun and then takes his defibs out?
C: You’re interrupting a player in whatever he’s doing at the moment.[/QUOTE]
A: Don’t really know what to say here, “why do you care?” springs to mind.
B: Dr. Nick, maybe. But a person playing a medic in Brink who wants to get his teammates healed up as quickly as possible without wasting healthpack charge would probably TK-revive, unless healing restores more health than reviving.
C: What are players usually doing when they have 10 health? Running around looking for a medic I’ll bet. Or waiting for the respawn timer.
I’d be fine with it unavailable in single player and co-op (where friendly fire is probably going to be off anyway) so that’s your precious immersion protected. In a normal multiplayer game though (without matchmaking/story mode) immersion doesn’t really matter, gameplay and fun do. Of course if you’re playing multiplayer for the immersion, expect it to be quite quickly broken by everything else players do.
The careless one is the one running into your grenade.
Throw a grenade
Teammate goes charging past you, guns blazing
“WOW SHIT MAN I JUST THREW A GRENADE IN THERE GET OUT!”
To be honest I think you could make tokamak rage by just playing the game, everything you’re doing will be wrong in his eyes. Even if you win.
Actually, nothing is wrong in my eyes. You TK me? Fine, you’ve paid the price for it anyway. It are actually the people who want to employ mob-rule systems in this game that see criminals everywhere.
Teamkilling should simply be too expensive not to keep your eyes open.