Blishlock Discussion (OP, Balanced or UP?)

(Resine) #61

I don’t know how accurate are the ranges from the DB Stat Sheet, but according to them Crotzni and Kek have higher ranges that Blishlok. Since when SMG’s are designed to be used with scope on the range?

(spicyHarp) #62

[quote=“prudentMan;77876”]
Oh just stop your conspiracy theories. [/quote]

Not even close, this is the most logical conclusion i came up with, and feel free to correct me.
Blishlok loadouts have terrible augments on SMG mercs, and fairly good ones on shotgun mercs. SMG mercs have better weapons so the loadouts needs far better augments to make it viable (like BL81 for bush), yet this is not the case. Why is that? It’s there for a reason, and this is the best I can come up with. It fits with SDs RNG tradeup business model, too.

Yes, because sawbones has better weapon options, better augment options, and is overall very lackluster. But aura doesn’t have “better” options, Blishlok is the only ranged primary available, and the augments are very good.

(Resine) #63

Augments are preference, please bear that in mind.
For example,
The Bush guy, i like BL-81, but i cannot use it because of useless weapon.
The Sawbones, when i play as medic i keep my ass mostly behind my team-mates and people tend to use explosives to get rid of me, BL-71, looks very solid to me.
As a Phantom i would go with BL-94, as i love Undercover, i don’t need the katana at all, and i would rather have faster reload than highlighted mines.

Why would i want them? Because i think they would support my own game-style, i am not interested in some meta, because someone said that it’s the best.

Why Blishlok is shit then? Because they nerfed it too much !! Simple as that.

(spicyHarp) #64

[quote=“prudentMan;78040”]
Augments are preference, please bear that in mind.
For example,
The Bush guy, i like BL-81, but i cannot use it because of useless weapon.
The Sawbones, when i play as medic i keep my ass mostly behind my team-mates and people tend to use explosives to get rid of me, BL-71, looks very solid to me.
As a Phantom i would go with BL-94, as i love Undercover, i don’t need the katana at all, and i would rather have faster reload than highlighted mines.[/quote]

Sawbones gets potent packs and unshakable with BL71, wheres CR73 and CR42 both offer better weapons and augments in exchange for unshakable. SM72 is far better for pure support if you hang back and heal/revive. Sawbones will still get 1 shotted by a well placed fragger nades with or without unshakable, and naders GL is fairly easy to avoid. Objectively all 3 loadouts are better than BL71.
Phantom has access to both kek10 and crotzni, far better weapons compared to blishlok. Melee weapons are personal preference as they don’t have a huge impact on gameplay. But kek and crotzni reload far faster with reload cancel when compared to blishlok with drilled.

SD can’t make blishlok a viable weapon on SMG mercs without making aura and fletcher overpowered unless they rework the augments.

(omegaskorpion) #65

[quote=“spicyHarp;78043”][quote=“prudentMan;78040”]
[/quote]
SD can’t make blishlok a viable weapon on SMG mercs without making aura and fletcher overpowered unless they rework the augments.[/quote]

Latest fine tuning update did prove you long ago wrong.

Buffing the SMG-9 didnt make Sawbones op.

Buffing the Hochfir dindt make proxi or nader op.

Buffing K-121 didnt make Fragger op.

Buffing Timik didnt make skyhammer op.

Buffing Stark AR and BR-16 didnt make Firesupports op.

Buffing the shotguns dindt make shotgun mercs op.

Buffing the naders health didnt make nader op.

Buffing Artilery didnt make arty op.

Nerfing Crotzni so it would not be the only best smg.

Do you see a pattern here… do you?

You can buff weapons regardless to their augments or their users.

Smg-9 was one of the worst smg and Crotzni was the best, they changed that for the sake of balance, not for the augmets.
Smg-9 had decent loadouts but it was sh#t. Now its good and its preference which one you pick, smg-9 or crotzni, accuracy or fire rate?

If you are scared of aura running with Bishlock then you should be scared sh#t less by proxy running with Hochfir wich is mutch better weapon that Bishlock and its comparable to other smg ins viability even without the dps that they have.

Some people just hate balance, i like it and its never ending progress, someting will be always buffed or nerfed, someting will be always balanced. No weapon is safe from balance and should not be.

And like othets, most of the people agree that the Bishlock is under performing thanks to coutless issues.

And only counter that Some have is that it would make aura op… seriusly…?
A merc that can one shot with a shotgun is less scary that a merc with smg?

They can first balance the weapons, then rebalance the augments.

(spicyHarp) #66

All those are very minor changes.
Blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs has mediocre augments. It would need a huge buff to be viable when it’s lacking both DPS and augments, K-121ish DPS is probably needed before anyone takes those loadouts seriously. A tiny buff would do nothing.

Say sawbones gets a blishlok loadouts with potent packs, get up, and extra supplies. You give up most of your killing power, yet you have tons of healing potential. And before you call it OP, look at SM72 and CR73. You give up some/a lot of killing power for potent packs/extra supplies, seems fair to me.
Of course, this is could be a terrible idea. But this just shows a way you can make blishlok loadouts viable without changing the stats itself, and augments easier to balance as it only affects one class.

(omegaskorpion) #67

[quote=“spicyHarp;78122”]All those are very minor changes.
Blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs has mediocre augments. It would need a huge buff to be viable when it’s lacking both DPS and augments, K-121ish DPS is probably needed before anyone takes those loadouts seriously. A tiny buff would do nothing.

Say sawbones gets a blishlok loadouts with potent packs, get up, and extra supplies. You give up most of your killing power, yet you have tons of healing potential. And before you call it OP, look at SM72 and CR73. You give up some/a lot of killing power for potent packs/extra supplies, seems fair to me.
Of course, this is could be a terrible idea. But this just shows a way you can make blishlok loadouts viable without changing the stats itself, and augments easier to balance as it only affects one class.[/quote]

You learned nothing from SMG-9?

People used to hate that weapon because it was inferior Crotzni. It had ok loadouts but so had Crotzni.

Then came the update that nerfed Crotzni and buffed SMG-9.

Now both are usable and have viable loadouts.

Giving me shiny augments do not change my mind about a bad weapon if it cant keep me alive long enough to give use for those augments.

(spicyHarp) #68

The only SMG9 loadouts that are top tier are SM72 for sawbones and SM41 for nader.
They have better augments and slightly worse primaries. This is not the case for blishlok, both augments and weapons are lackluster. Give better augments and all is well, but buff blishlok and aura/fletcher becomes more powerful. Both buffs at the same time works, but that will result in mediocre weapon and good perks. Which SMG9 already does fairly well.

(Dawnlazy) #69

What’s so bad about Aura and Fletcher having decent primaries? I fail to see how that would be OP.

(spicyHarp) #70

Blishlok is the most versatile primary available to fletcher and aura, and i don’t see anyone screaming buff fletcher/aura. They really don’t need it.

The thing is people are trying to make blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs more viable, so they want a buff to blishlok. Due to the terrible augments blishlok needs a gigantic buff to compete against other SMG loadouts. Like how K121 is compared to M4 on fragger.
A buff like that would make aura and fletcher completely overpowered, incredibly good primary, very good augments and removes the short range limitations of a shotgun merc completely.

Instead of that, we could just create new blishlok loadouts with fantastic augment combos. IF SD even wants blishlok to be viable on SMG mercs.

(Resine) #71

There is not a chance that I will choose useless weapon for the sake of augments. This would be really bad choice to balance things out. Again Blishlok used to be much better with superior accuracy and no one complained that aura is op.

(Pecka) #72

I voted under-powered just because I just cannot play shotguns, and so Blishok is my Auras primary weapon. A small buff of whatever would be only welcomed :slight_smile:

At least what they could do is to adjust the scope so we don’t get that ugly green blop and we can actually use the sight to aim >D

(spicyHarp) #73

Opinions, opinions, opinions. Feel free to come up with a better solution to this. Because an accuracy buff is going to do nothing but make shotguns even less desirable.

(Resine) #74

You’re welcome,
To make a Blishlok viable choice, make it like every other SMG, higher RoF, lower damage. Here, just fixed a weapon for you.

(spicyHarp) #75

And what is that supposed to change? Blishlok on SMG mercs will still be a joke. Aura and Fletcher will be potentially stronger and make shotguns a joke.
What you came up with fixed nothing, and buffed two classes that are fairly strong already. Thanks.

(omegaskorpion) #76

[quote=“spicyHarp;78520”][quote=“Resine;78439”]
You’re welcome,
To make a Blishlok viable choice, make it like every other SMG, higher RoF, lower damage. Here, just fixed a weapon for you.
[/quote]

And what is that supposed to change? Blishlok on SMG mercs will still be a joke. Aura and Fletcher will be potentially stronger and make shotguns a joke.
What you came up with fixed nothing, and buffed two classes that are fairly strong already. Thanks.[/quote]

If the smg is still a joke then how it would make Aura of Fletcher stronger?
And smg still wont have the 1-2 shot capability of shotguns so i would say that shotguns would still live. However they also need some tweaking.

(spicyHarp) #77

It’s not the weapon, it’s the loadouts. SMG mercs have access to both better weapons and better augments, buffing the blishlok to crotzni level will still leave you with worse augments most of the time.
Shotguns are still viable because blishlok is hard to use, buffing the RoF and nerfing the damage will remove a big downside for using a blishlok loadouts. And probably create another proxy where you forget about shotguns and rock with the SMGs 24/7.
Before you say shotguns are viable on proxy, hochfir is objectively a better gun, and the augments aren’t half bad either. Overall it’s better to use SMG if you want to min max proxy.

(omegaskorpion) #78

[quote=“spicyHarp;78535”]It’s not the weapon, it’s the loadouts. SMG mercs have access to both better weapons and better augments, buffing the blishlok to crotzni level will still leave you with worse augments most of the time.
Shotguns are still viable because blishlok is hard to use, buffing the RoF and nerfing the damage will remove a big downside for using a blishlok loadouts. And probably create another proxy where you forget about shotguns and rock with the SMGs 24/7.
Before you say shotguns are viable on proxy, hochfir is objectively a better gun, and the augments aren’t half bad either. Overall it’s better to use SMG if you want to min max proxy.[/quote]

Then i will say that the shotgun proxy is viable, because it freaking is, nothing is more satisfying then running to enemies face just to one shot them with the shotgun. Smg cant do that, i haven seen this 24/7 smg proxy army you talk about. I see both smg and shotguns in the game.

Bishlock has bad augments, however there are some laodotus that are pretty good. And we should not ingnore them.

Also, who the hell told you that the nerfind damage and increasing rof is the ONLY possible balance solution… when we talk about balance we talk about many possible ways to increase the performance of the weapon.

They could increase the fire rate to 420 (from 400) that is one way to make it shoot faster and it would increase dps sligthly.
They could incease the damage to 19 (from 18) which would also incease dps by slight amount.
They could do one of them and then slightly tighter the spread in ADS.

There are so many possible ways to balance this weapon, not just one way.

(Resine) #79

Obviously there is a lot of ways to make it work. It’s the first time in my life when people do agree that something is off, but they don’t feel a need to improve it. Well there are only 2 mercs that doesn’t have a choice if I am correct, so that might be the case.

(spicyHarp) #80

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Then i will say that the shotgun proxy is viable, because it freaking is, nothing is more satisfying then running to enemies face just to one shot them with the shotgun. Smg cant do that, i haven seen this 24/7 smg proxy army you talk about. I see both smg and shotguns in the game. [/quote]
I meant Equal, not viable, sorry. But everything else i said remains true. Most shotgun proxies i’ve seen remain at the bottom of the score board, and has somewhat bad aim.

There is only one, BL81. It’s not popular due to the loadout focusing on the turret and gives little advantage outside of it.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Also, who the hell told you that the nerfind damage and increasing rof is the ONLY possible balance solution… when we talk about balance we talk about many possible ways to increase the performance of the weapon. [/quote]

Him?

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
They could increase the fire rate to 420 (from 400) that is one way to make it shoot faster and it would increase dps sligthly.
They could incease the damage to 19 (from 18) which would also incease dps by slight amount.
They could do one of them and then slightly tighter the spread in ADS.[/quote]

Buff the RoF/Damage and accuacy you are left with a weaker SMG compared to Kek/Crotzni.
Buff both RoF and Damage you are left with overpowered Aura/Fletcher. This won’t work.