Blishlock Discussion (OP, Balanced or UP?)

[spicyHarp]

Obviously there is a lot of ways to make it work.

That is correct, and directly buffing the weapon isn’t one of those ways.

[omegaskorpion]

[quote=“spicyHarp;78750”][quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Then i will say that the shotgun proxy is viable, because it freaking is, nothing is more satisfying then running to enemies face just to one shot them with the shotgun. Smg cant do that, i haven seen this 24/7 smg proxy army you talk about. I see both smg and shotguns in the game. [/quote]
I meant Equal, not viable, sorry. But everything else i said remains true. Most shotgun proxies i’ve seen remain at the bottom of the score board, and has somewhat bad aim.

Bishlock has bad augments, however there are some laodotus that are pretty good. And we should not ingnore them.

There is only one, BL81. It’s not popular due to the loadout focusing on the turret and gives little advantage outside of it.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Also, who the hell told you that the nerfind damage and increasing rof is the ONLY possible balance solution… when we talk about balance we talk about many possible ways to increase the performance of the weapon. [/quote]

Him?

To make a Blishlok viable choice, make it like every other SMG, higher RoF, lower damage. Here, just fixed a weapon for you.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
They could increase the fire rate to 420 (from 400) that is one way to make it shoot faster and it would increase dps sligthly.
They could incease the damage to 19 (from 18) which would also incease dps by slight amount.
They could do one of them and then slightly tighter the spread in ADS.[/quote]

Buff the RoF/Damage and accuacy you are left with a weaker SMG compared to Kek/Crotzni.
Buff both RoF and Damage you are left with overpowered Aura/Fletcher. This won’t work.[/quote]

Shotguns can be deadly in right hands, while the shotguns still need tweaking, i have been in the top of the score board with ahnuld flether and remburg proxy.
Also i find remburg Aura very powerfull.

About loadouts:
Bushwakker bishlock loadouts arent that bad.
Fletcher BL33 is very good.
Sawbones BL71 is amazing loadout.
Phantom BL94 is freaking good.
Aura BL 41 is good.

However the thing that makes all these loadouts bad Primary the weapon, otherwise they would work. (köf köf, bishlock)

Buff rof or damage and accuracy and you have very viable gun in your hands.
Buff both rof and damage and we have highest dps smg which is not what we are looking for.

[LANshark]

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”][quote=“spicyHarp;78750”][quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Then i will say that the shotgun proxy is viable, because it freaking is, nothing is more satisfying then running to enemies face just to one shot them with the shotgun. Smg cant do that, i haven seen this 24/7 smg proxy army you talk about. I see both smg and shotguns in the game. [/quote]
I meant Equal, not viable, sorry. But everything else i said remains true. Most shotgun proxies i’ve seen remain at the bottom of the score board, and has somewhat bad aim.

Bishlock has bad augments, however there are some laodotus that are pretty good. And we should not ingnore them.

There is only one, BL81. It’s not popular due to the loadout focusing on the turret and gives little advantage outside of it.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Also, who the hell told you that the nerfind damage and increasing rof is the ONLY possible balance solution… when we talk about balance we talk about many possible ways to increase the performance of the weapon. [/quote]

Him?

To make a Blishlok viable choice, make it like every other SMG, higher RoF, lower damage. Here, just fixed a weapon for you.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
They could increase the fire rate to 420 (from 400) that is one way to make it shoot faster and it would increase dps sligthly.
They could incease the damage to 19 (from 18) which would also incease dps by slight amount.
They could do one of them and then slightly tighter the spread in ADS.[/quote]

Buff the RoF/Damage and accuacy you are left with a weaker SMG compared to Kek/Crotzni.
Buff both RoF and Damage you are left with overpowered Aura/Fletcher. This won’t work.[/quote]

About loadouts:
Bushwakker bishlock loadouts arent that bad.
Fletcher BL33 is very good.
Sawbones BL71 is amazing loadout.
Phantom BL94 is freaking good.
Aura BL 41 is good.

However the thing that makes all these loadouts bad Primary the weapon, otherwise they would work. (köf köf, bishlock)

Buff rof or damage and accuracy and you have very viable gun in your hands.
Buff both rof and damage and we have highest dps smg which is not what we are looking for.[/quote]

so… i started playing with the blish again recently and it is the only weapon i can get headshots with consistently (which suplements the lower damage. I find that the low rof helps be aim better and i can go ham with the gun. Just use the map to your advantage, dont get too close, and switch to your mp secondary if you get too close (they tend to be necessary if you have the bish). I regret saying it is underpowered now; it is fine.

[omegaskorpion]

[quote=“LANshark;78832”][quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”][quote=“spicyHarp;78750”][quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Then i will say that the shotgun proxy is viable, because it freaking is, nothing is more satisfying then running to enemies face just to one shot them with the shotgun. Smg cant do that, i haven seen this 24/7 smg proxy army you talk about. I see both smg and shotguns in the game. [/quote]
I meant Equal, not viable, sorry. But everything else i said remains true. Most shotgun proxies i’ve seen remain at the bottom of the score board, and has somewhat bad aim.

Bishlock has bad augments, however there are some laodotus that are pretty good. And we should not ingnore them.

There is only one, BL81. It’s not popular due to the loadout focusing on the turret and gives little advantage outside of it.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
Also, who the hell told you that the nerfind damage and increasing rof is the ONLY possible balance solution… when we talk about balance we talk about many possible ways to increase the performance of the weapon. [/quote]

Him?

To make a Blishlok viable choice, make it like every other SMG, higher RoF, lower damage. Here, just fixed a weapon for you.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78739”]
They could increase the fire rate to 420 (from 400) that is one way to make it shoot faster and it would increase dps sligthly.
They could incease the damage to 19 (from 18) which would also incease dps by slight amount.
They could do one of them and then slightly tighter the spread in ADS.[/quote]

Buff the RoF/Damage and accuacy you are left with a weaker SMG compared to Kek/Crotzni.
Buff both RoF and Damage you are left with overpowered Aura/Fletcher. This won’t work.[/quote]

About loadouts:
Bushwakker bishlock loadouts arent that bad.
Fletcher BL33 is very good.
Sawbones BL71 is amazing loadout.
Phantom BL94 is freaking good.
Aura BL 41 is good.

However the thing that makes all these loadouts bad Primary the weapon, otherwise they would work. (köf köf, bishlock)

Buff rof or damage and accuracy and you have very viable gun in your hands.
Buff both rof and damage and we have highest dps smg which is not what we are looking for.[/quote]

so… i started playing with the blish again recently and it is the only weapon i can get headshots with consistently (which suplements the lower damage. I find that the low rof helps be aim better and i can go ham with the gun. Just use the map to your advantage, dont get too close, and switch to your mp secondary if you get too close (they tend to be necessary if you have the bish). I regret saying it is underpowered now; it is fine.[/quote]

I used to play sawbones only using Bishlock, however after getting other mercs and buffs and nerfs the Bishlock wasnt as good choice anymore.

some Bishlocks problems show instantly, some of them later.

In long range Headshots are harder to atchieve while ADS because of huge recoil and spread and thanks to that terible reflex sight.
At closer ranges the bishlock is out damaged by shotguns and other, far more fast smg.
SMG-9 has better accuracy and is greater at headshots than bishlock, it also has better dps overall, it also wroks better in range.

I could go on and on with the problems that the bishlock has but i would simply get repedetive and boring, until nobody gives a sh#t.

[spicyHarp]

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”]

About loadouts:
Bushwakker bishlock loadouts arent that bad.
Fletcher BL33 is very good.
Sawbones BL71 is amazing loadout.
Phantom BL94 is freaking good.
Aura BL 41 is good. [/quote]

Bush gives quite a bit of advantage, Sawbones and Phantom has access to objectively better loadouts, and Aura/Fletcher loadouts are the whole reason I’m against buffing Blishlok itself.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”]Buff rof or damage and accuracy and you have very viable gun in your hands.
Buff both rof and damage and we have highest dps smg which is not what we are looking for.[/quote]
Aura and Fletcher, both balanced atm, just imagine what they can do if Blishloks DPS got buffed to 133, and EVEN THAT is probably not going to sway people away from Crotzni/Kek. Much harder to use, and Worse perks for 3/5 DPS?

[Resine]

[quote=“spicyHarp;79015”]
Aura and Fletcher, both balanced atm, just imagine what they can do if Blishloks DPS got buffed to 133, and EVEN THAT is probably not going to sway people away from Crotzni/Kek. Much harder to use, and Worse perks for 3/5 DPS? [/quote]

They would be a viable choice. Let’s be honest here, the ones that plays the Fletcher are using Sticky Bombs as primary weapon, supported by Empire-9 which is far more reliable than the Blishlok which is joke.
Aura is not a viable pick, it’s used mostly as a starter character, Sawbones has far better kit, weapons and bigger HP pool. It’s just a preference, but i find mercs with 110-120 in the perfect spot between Speed/Hp.
I doubt that those 2 classes would change that drastically, because there are mercs with abilities that excel in killing potential way more and they do have a proper primary weapon like Nader and Fragger.

[spicyHarp]

Is this changing into a “Buff fletcher and aura” thread? Because that slight DPS increase won’t change anything for SMG mercs, except MAYBE BL81. Aura and Fletcher don’t need a top tier SMG to be viable, they are already very strong.
Nader and Fragger doesn’t have ways to heal/revive or do objectives quickly. They are assault Mercs, they should have better equipment overall. Aura is the most powerful medic on defense, and if played right can avoid healing stations destruction almost entirely. Fletcher is the offensive Engineer, he already has plenty of damage potential with the stickies if used correctly, either spam detonate mid air, or go for sticks.

“If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

There are plenty of ways to buff blishlok loadouts than JUST buffing blishlok itself. Load it full of good augments, nerf Fletcher/Aura blishlok loadouts and give a huge buff to blishlok, hell you can even replace blishlok on SMG mercs with an entirely new weapon that has amazing DPS and is fairly hard to use.

[omegaskorpion]

[quote=“spicyHarp;79015”][quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”]

About loadouts:
Bushwakker bishlock loadouts arent that bad.
Fletcher BL33 is very good.
Sawbones BL71 is amazing loadout.
Phantom BL94 is freaking good.
Aura BL 41 is good. [/quote]

Bush gives quite a bit of advantage, Sawbones and Phantom has access to objectively better loadouts, and Aura/Fletcher loadouts are the whole reason I’m against buffing Blishlok itself.

[quote=“omegaskorpion;78769”]Buff rof or damage and accuracy and you have very viable gun in your hands.
Buff both rof and damage and we have highest dps smg which is not what we are looking for.[/quote]
Aura and Fletcher, both balanced atm, just imagine what they can do if Blishloks DPS got buffed to 133, and EVEN THAT is probably not going to sway people away from Crotzni/Kek. Much harder to use, and Worse perks for 3/5 DPS? [/quote]

Nobody asked dps of 133 that is more than crotzni. (wich has 130)
People are mostly wanting 122 dps or similar (that is same dps as the hockfirs) Or atleast a better control over the weapon since it has huge spray and recoil compared to others.

Where the hell are you pulling these numbers?
Not a single right minded player or developer would give 133 dps to blishlock without some huge downsides.

Balance is about f#king balance, this isnt about making bishlock super hyper ultra merc killer that breaks the balance and the game. This is about malking it viable, not some weapon that ever person will thow away because it cant compete with others.
Balance is about making all weapons viable, how many times do i need to repeat that.
The augments do not help this since they are minor buffs and most of the time they dont even work right or have use.

I would be more than happy to use bishlock if it was not this bad, it usable but its not viable.

Why arent people asking buff for hockfir? because its viable, it works, its balanced (at the moment) it does not have the dps of the other guns but its accurate, minimium recoild and hish fire rate and easy headshots make it viable.

While bishlock is good at headshots its harder to score them while: ads/long range.
Also the recoil, spread and fire rate also make it darn bad, not to talk about reload speed.

(and my text seems more hostile than it should be, my appologies)

[spicyHarp]

[quote=“omegaskorpion;79087”]
Nobody asked dps of 133 that is more than crotzni. (wich has 130)
People are mostly wanting 122 dps or similar (that is same dps as the hockfirs) Or atleast a better control over the weapon since it has huge spray and recoil compared to others.

Where the hell are you pulling these numbers?
Not a single right minded player or developer would give 133 dps to blishlock without some huge downsides.

Balance is about f#king balance, this isnt about making bishlock super hyper ultra merc killer that breaks the balance and the game. This is about malking it viable, not some weapon that ever person will thow away because it cant compete with others.
Balance is about making all weapons viable, how many times do i need to repeat that.
The augments do not help this since they are minor buffs and most of the time they dont even work right or have use.

I would be more than happy to use bishlock if it was not this bad, it usable but its not viable.

Why arent people asking buff for hockfir? because its viable, it works, its balanced (at the moment) it does not have the dps of the other guns but its accurate, minimium recoild and hish fire rate and easy headshots make it viable.

While bishlock is good at headshots its harder to score them while: ads/long range.
Also the recoil, spread and fire rate also make it darn bad, not to talk about reload speed.

(and my text seems more hostile than it should be, my appologies)[/quote]

Blishlok has 120 DPS, it’s not that much different than 122. After some testing, the recoil is somewhat high, but very easy to control. The spread is somewhere in between the SMG9 and Crotzni.

The “huge downside” is the lack of good augments and the gun itself is difficult to master.
Even with a DPS buff like that, nobody is going to use it.
Balance is for each merc, and not each weapon. Good Augments will have an impact on the value/viability of the card, just look at the SMG 9 loadouts, M4 loadouts on fragger, and i still see a bushwhacker using steady once in a while.

People only use Hochfir on proxy, and is proxy even close to aura and fletcher in terms of combat capabilities? No. She has a defensive ability that relies on the enemy to walk into it. She deserves a better, easier to use SMG. Fletcher can sticky spam, Aura can take tons of damage with the healing station, and if they rush in and try to destroy the station, it’s pretty much a free kill.

[Eox]

This does not make sense, and the competitive scene is the proof. Here, the metagame engineer is Bushwhacker. Reason ? KEK-10 and turret. KEK-10 is the absolute best SMG you can have. Actually you could call it overpowered, and you would be right. And the sentry ? Well, it’s a defensive too, but if it was that defensive as you said, explaining why Bushwhacker gets the KEK-10, why is he in the metagame ? Why is he so commonly used where other engineers are considered as more situational, offense and defense alike ? Why the turret is so good at being played offensively when we are talking about a defensive tool ? Fletcher is far trickier to use than Bushwhacker and his fire-and-forget, aimbotting turret. He can’t set 2vs1 situations like him, and is far less reliable.

On the medic side, you have Aura, that is far, far less played than Sawbonez. Reasons ? Once again worse weapons, and the Health station is much, much, much easier to counter than you think. Especially in a metagame where Fragger is the absolute king. On the top of that, shotguns are not considered viable competitively (and will probably never be), she can’t use machine pistols like Fletcher or Proxy, and the Blishlok is a worse SMG than any other SMG, especially KEK-10. On the other hand, you have Sawbonez that is extremely versatile, can use two good SMGs, and his far enough by himself to sustain a 5 persons team. Aura is not totally useless, but she is much more situational. Even more situational than Fletcher.

And then we go to the loadouts for the meta SMG mercs. Blishlok loadouts getting the best augments is absolutely not true. Exemple : BL71 on Sawbonez is very good indeed, but CR73 is still considered as a better choice, like SM72 : why is BL71 so much overlooked ? Blishlok ! On Bushwhacker, everyone would think that BL81 is one of the best loadout… But is it really true ? If you don’t have your sentry out, what’s the purpose of those augments ? Also, Cool is not a good one. And on the other side there’s a loadout that give you Looter, Drilled AND Guardian Angel, three augments that do not require a heavy reliance on turret. And you also get the KEK-10. You would like a Sentry buff ? No problem ! Go C41, it’s a decent one too with Focus and Lock On, and it has KEK-10. KEK-10 Bushwhacker loadouts are far superior overall. And I can also extend this to Phantom with the C94 loadout considered as being the best one. BL94 seems to have better augments, but once again you base your loadout choice on the primary first. And Drilled is not that good on him anyway : you’d prefer double time that has much more synergy with his invisibility : that augment, you can find it on the C51 loadouts, yet another KEK-10 one. There’s also CR51, but one would be crazy to choose anything above the KEK-10. We even have Phoenix that is out, but this one comes with very balanced loadouts overall. However, I bet you that you’ll see more KEK-10 loadouts than anything.

You say that Aura and Fletcher would be OP with a slightly better Blishlok (thing that we ask), but they’re not even that much used, and for a very good reason. On the other side you have the SMG mercs Sawbonez and Bushwhacker that are much more used and would never use a Blishlok loadout, because your primary choice matters above everything else. And if you have a KEK-10 loadout, forget everything else ! Would a Blishlok overhaul be that much a bad idea ? I really don’t think so. There’s no sense to give your “filler SMG” to a SMG merc that has such better options : if your theory would be right you wouldn’t see any Blishlok on Bushwhacker’s and Sawbonez’s loadouts. Blishlok needs a battle situation where it really shines, because so far, it’s far less rewarding than running any other SMG in every situation. Meanwhile, KEK-10 shines in every situations. High damage per bullet is not a good perk if you have nothing to exploit that. And while we’re at it, the KEK-10 could really use yet another nerf.

[spicyHarp]

Of course those comp mercs are going to be more versatile, but you have to look at both pubs and comp here. Phantom is a great example, nearly useless in comp, and deemed overpowered in pubs. I don’t see anyone saying Aura or Fletcher is underpowered, so i don’t see why we should buff them, leaving shotguns even less desirable, when there are much better ways of handling this.

The SMG merc loadouts being strong is absolutely false, you either read the part when I suggested it as a buff, or was mentioning the shotgun mercs.

A slightly better blishlok won’t make any of the SMG mercs use those loadouts, not a chance. Blishlok either needs a giant buff to make it viable because of the terrible augments, or needs loadouts that stacks the best augments. ie: blishlok sawbones with get up, extra supplies, and potent packs. (disclaimer: this might be a terrible idea.)

The filler SMG “theory”, in my eyes it’s there to create bad loadouts, and make you have a harder time getting the loadouts you want, and i see no reason why SD want it in the game beyond that.

[Eox]

It’s not wrong, it’s the sad reallity. SMGs are far superior than shotguns, simply due to the range factor. It’s not a coincidence if shotguns are not very used in competitive : it’s due to the fact that you’ll most likely die before being at effective range for shotgunning, even if you are using a fast merc. Of course there’s the Ahnuhld-12 that features a higher range, but it won’t do miracles, and it’s also the lowest DPS of all primary weapons, and the second lowest DPS in the game (not counting snipers and melee weapons). That weapon is plainly acceptable this way though, because it’s high burst damage potential makes it suited for a hit and run playstyle.

Competitive players are very good, some of them are almost living aimbots, they master the movement system and know the maps by heart. You can’t close the distance with a shotgun against those kind of player : too risky, and your efficiency at close range is not even worth it. Especially since you are not guaranteed to put all your pellets into someone’s head unless you are litterally at point blank. On the other side, it’s not a big deal for a SMG/AR user.

Blishlok is far less reliable than any other SMG due to his low firing speed, and it doesn’t even compensate it with a higher DPS. Because it’s firing speed is so low, you can’t spray and pray like you could do with Hochfir or KEK-10. The fact that you are supposed to “shoot in bursts” make things even worse. An harder weapon to use SHOULD be more rewarding to use. It needs a DPS overhaul, or at least a domain where it’ll perform greater. It’s possible that it needs a greater buff than expected, but I have confidence in Splash Damage for it : they clearly proved that they are not the worst at balancing a game.

While a game should be balanced in both competitive and casual aspects, you can’t deny the fact that the Blishlok won’t be played a lot if you can get weapons like KEK-10 or Crotzni. It’s already the case in pubs : besides Aura and Fletcher, you’ll struggle to find a Blishlok Bushwhacker, Sawbonez or Phantom. The KEK-10 superiority is a reality, as well as the Blishlok inferiority. Any other SMG is easier to use while being much more rewarding than the Blishlok. It’s not an acceptable situation. Even machine pistols do a better job overall : there’s a reason why on Fletcher you play your Empire-9 more than your primary, Shotgun and Blishlok alike. And anyway, pubs are not the best place to balance your game : after all there’s still a lot of people that find Proxy OP besides the fact that she’s barely played in competitive.

[spicyHarp]

Are you sure we are on the same page here? I was referring to Blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs being bad, not SMGs in general. Blishlok loadouts needs a buff, but not a direct stat buff, as that affects aura and fletcher too.

Imo pubs is the way to go for most balancing, as “not used in comp & balanced in pubs” is far more important than “often used in comp & OP in pubs”. Blishlok serves as an in between of shotguns and SMGs, more versatile than shotguns and weaker than most SMGs. You really can’t make blishlok loadouts viable with the current augments without making blishlok the most powerful SMG available with the exception of BL81 for bushwhacker.

Say we have group A (Aura and Fletcher), it’s their best primary available, And in group B (Sawbones, Phantom, and Bushwhacker), it’s the worst primary available. It’s impossible to buff blishlok to be viable in group B, without messing up the balance in group A. The augments for that weapon in group B is below average, thus blishlok loadouts needs an even bigger buff to be viable.

Blishloks stats buffed -> more people using blishlok -> even less shotgun aura/fletchers -> less variety -> still sucks compared to other SMG loadouts due to worse augments and fletcher aura is slightly more powerful or fletcher and aura is unbalanced and blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs becomes viable.

Seriously though, are people screaming “buff blishlok!” just because of the weapon stats, without considering merc balance and loadout cards?

[omegaskorpion]

[quote=“spicyHarp;79412”]Are you sure we are on the same page here? I was referring to Blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs being bad, not SMGs in general. Blishlok loadouts needs a buff, but not a direct stat buff, as that affects aura and fletcher too.

Imo pubs is the way to go for most balancing, as “not used in comp & balanced in pubs” is far more important than “often used in comp & OP in pubs”. Blishlok serves as an in between of shotguns and SMGs, more versatile than shotguns and weaker than most SMGs. You really can’t make blishlok loadouts viable with the current augments without making blishlok the most powerful SMG available with the exception of BL81 for bushwhacker.

Say we have group A (Aura and Fletcher), it’s their best primary available, And in group B (Sawbones, Phantom, and Bushwhacker), it’s the worst primary available. It’s impossible to buff blishlok to be viable in group B, without messing up the balance in group A. The augments for that weapon in group B is below average, thus blishlok loadouts needs an even bigger buff to be viable.

Blishloks stats buffed -> more people using blishlok -> even less shotgun aura/fletchers -> less variety -> still sucks compared to other SMG loadouts due to worse augments and fletcher aura is slightly more powerful or fletcher and aura is unbalanced and blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs becomes viable.

Seriously though, are people screaming “buff blishlok!” just because of the weapon stats, without considering merc balance and loadout cards?[/quote]

D…did you actualy read anything wroted? because it sure as hell does not seem like it.

[Eox]

It should affect Aura and Fletcher as well. I see no reason why it wouldn’t. After all, Bushwhacker has the turret : a powerful tool that is almost like bringing a second player on the battlefield, plus the KEK-10. And Sawbonez has also the Crotzni who used to be the absolute best SMG in the game just before the KEK-10 (and it still performs pretty great as far as I know), as well as powerful and versatile health packs. That SMG deserve to be on par with the others. Even if this means making Aura and Fletcher a bit stronger, which will not be a big deal anyway.

It’s not like the Sticky Bombs are more useful than the Turret (and vice versa), or the Health Station is more useful than the Health Packs (and vice versa). They just all have a different purpose. Where the difference is, is that some abilities are harder to use than another one, or the other one is better countered with awareness… But so far, for exemple, people tend to choose Bushwhacker instead of Fletcher. Why ? Because his weapons are better, and the turret is efficient enough and easier to play. Between a BL33 Fletcher and a random KEK-10 Bushwhacker loadout, people will choose very quickly.

If you look at Sawbonez and Bushwhacker, without looking at their weapons, and how solid they are, making the Blishlok viable really won’t hurt the game balance. I’d even go farther than that : if this makes Fletcher and Aura more played than they are in competitive, without knocking down Sawbonez and Bushwhacker of course, it’s a good step forward. Anyway, people hardly complain about Blishlok Auras (it’s more about the shotgun ones, wierdly), and Blishlok Fletcher is not especially hated as well.

EDIT : and it won’t make shotguns less played in pubs any way, because SMGs and shotguns are two different weapons, with different purposes. Shotguns are very used in pubs, it’s not a Blishlok buff that will make those less used. A lot of people can’t stand the Blishlok due to how it works, and a buff won’t change this on paper (unless we turn it into a high RPM SMG, which is unlikely and wouldn’t make sense).

[Resine]

Of course those comp mercs are going to be more versatile, but you have to look at both pubs and comp here.beyond that.

Wrong, you balance the game around the competitive play, not god damn random pubs.
The Bush guy, dominates everything, because he has a good SMG, and this is a shooter game.
I have met a Fletcher here and there at the competitive stage, i play him as well and i tell you, if i play against people that are on similar skill level to me, they are not dumb enough to get sticky to the face, neither am i.
Not to mention that wrecking the face with proper weapon, is really easy before you can use your stickies.
Obviously, if i play the PUB’s game, i can use the Stickies and Knife alone to open the score list most of the times.

Are you sure we are on the same page here? I was referring to Blishlok loadouts on SMG mercs being bad, not SMGs in general. Blishlok loadouts needs a buff, but not a direct stat buff, as that affects aura and fletcher too.

That might surprise you, but personally 95% of augments doesn’t make much of a difference to me, the rest of them are just minor buffs.
No matter how many you will give them to me, i will never chose a Fletcher over The Bush guy, because there difference with the weapon is too huge.
I will never use the Aura as well, simply put it takes only a seconds for a team to get rid of the Healing Station, she has only 80HP, against the 110Hp of the Sawbones and sustain dynamic healing packs…

I cannot understand why are you so afraid that by buffing the Blishlok those mercs will be directly buffed as well, because right now they are not even a viable picks in the competitive games.

[spicyHarp]

[quote=“Eox;79432”] -snip- [/quote] It would be interesting to see more fletchers and auras in comp, but i doubt they need a buff in pubs. Fletcher is mostly useless in comp due to fragger and his nades, the health station also won’t last that long. But it’s a completely different story in pubs. They are both fairly strong and does their job well.

Though I’m all for a buff that makes them viable in comp, without changing the balance in pubs by a lot.

[quote=“Resine;79513”]
Wrong, you balance the game around the competitive play, not god damn random pubs.[/quote]
Because phantom was too strong in comp and not pubs. /s

Fletcher doesn’t need to stick everyone to be viable, detonating mid-air works very nicely.
And everything else you said were opinions. Just because you won’t use it doesn’t mean everyone won’t use it.

[Resine]

Obviously everything that is based on the own experience is an opinion. Doesn’t change the fact that you cannot determine the Merc true usefulness in the pugs game that are unbalanced in the first place and any kind of teamwork is non existent. Even if aura will use a proper weapon she will never outshines other medics, not to mention that there is not that many people who do enjoy playing them. When it comes to Fletcher I think that the turret is much more powerful device to have than his bombs. It’s just a preference but seeing Fletcher you now that he does have them and avoiding them is much easier than most of people think.
About the Phantom, he was broken. Instead of hidden ninja he was used as straight forward rusher predator style.

[spicyHarp]

Fletcher is more effective on offense, and bushwhacker is best used on defense. They fill different roles. Correct me if I’m wrong, but i believe the reason bush is used on offense in comp is because fraggers and sawbones can already clear the objective, and fletcher isn’t exactly needed. But the turret will slow down the retake, and bush has access to better weapons.
But fletcher isn’t weak in pubs, and isn’t too strong either. So I believe he is a merc best used when there are no reliable teammates, as he has both engineer and explosives.

Phantom was just to prove that you can’t balance completely around comp and ignore pubs.

[Resine]

Bushwhacker is used in both situations.
There is one fundamental difference between the Pug’s and competitive stage. One, is the game full of random people which cares more about theirs personal k/d ratio than an actual win in the game compared to people that work as a team to win the mission.

Phantom is really bad example. He was supposed to be a silent assassin, not the predator that tank most of your bullets and jump on your face with katana.
Before the nerfs he was really strong in both competitive and the pug’s game. The main difference between these two, was that people in the competitive stick together more and depend on each other, not to mention about the Voip, where in the Pugs game you could easily wreak total chaos in the enemy team and use it to your advantages getting a lot of kills, without even trying that much.
Those kinds of characters are the hardest to balance.

Now back to the Blishlok. Aura will never outshine the Sawbones, period.
When it comes to the Fletcher, well think of it in this way. There are character with very powerful abilities like the Turret, Frag Nade, Nade Launcher, yet they do have a proper weapon, when people are complaining about them being OP they typically whine about the abilities alone most of the time.
Fletcher is the guy with a lot of potential, he even might be able to fight with Bushwhacer for a spot in the team, but in his current state he is not reliable enough.