Are smurfing/multiple accounts allowed in DB?

(Amerika) #41

[quote=“Cappe;105931”][quote=“Amerika;105923”][quote=“Cappe;105774”]IMHO smurf account should not be allowed, it will hurt the game more than help it. DB will lose players to smurfs especially new players who will get slaugthered by them even in max lvl 5 servers.
For those who say they do it for their own enjoyment, what about the other players enjoyment? Are they not allowed to play against ppl of their own lvl??[/quote]

It will take a good player in between two to four games to hit level 5. Hopefully a player choosing to level a smurf account won’t be using quick join and won’t be joining max level 5 servers and instead use the server browser and join all level servers.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe smurfs will not join max lvl 5 servers?? For smurfs it’s the easiest way to get quick xp and the “fun” part of completely dominating the new players.[/quote]

You are confusing people who want to level an alt smurf account with people who want to grief. I know tons of people who have multiple accounts for quite a few games for legit non-griefing reasons. That’s why I explicitly defined (and recently edited) my logic. There is a difference and, like anything else in life, many people have many reasons for doing things.

I’ve thought about creating a smurf account so I can play it entirely with a Steam controller just so I can figure out just how much worse I do comparatively. In that scenario it would most likely even be morally OK to start out on max level 5 servers due to my rather severe handicap in using it/learning it. But I wouldn’t mind getting it setup, see how good it is and seeing if it’s possible for some players (with handicaps or simply prefer a controller) to play DB at a competent level to a keyboard and mouse user. We get quite a few requests for full controller support which SD doesn’t want to officially add (there is controller support in DB but it’s UE3 related and wonky). The Steam controller could be a much better alternative for a lot of people.

I seriously doubt you or anybody would call me a griefer for that.

(cordovanJive) #42

[quote=“Cappe;105836”]Smurfs damage this game in more ways than you guys think:[list]
[] new players will quit the game after getting slaughtered by same lvl players.
[] older players will quit out of frustration of getting slaugthered by lower lvl players.
[] it also gives SD false numbers about how many players DB has, if everyone would start making smurf accounts DB will end up with huge amounts of accounts but no players
[] more accounts that will probably never use any real money to buy anything
[] more reports of hackers, which will interfere with catching actual hackers
[] lvls never were much but atleast they were an indication of how experienced a player was with the game but now it even lost that 1 thing it was kind of usefull for.
[/list]

Plenty of games have made smurf accounts not allowed because it’s just bad for them.

I’m not going to comment on this anymore cause you smurfs clearly can’t see the damage it does/will do to the game. I hope you will see that before it’s too late, remember a FTP without casual players will die.[/quote]

CSGO just recently has allowed you to report enemy players for “anti-competitive” game play. IE: Griefing, smurfing, etc.

Smurfs suck, but it’s at least more understandable in this game… Since I know comp can take a long while to find a match even in lower levels. Really hope that improves some time.

(Cappe) #43

[quote=“Amerika;105933”][quote=“Cappe;105931”][quote=“Amerika;105923”][quote=“Cappe;105774”]IMHO smurf account should not be allowed, it will hurt the game more than help it. DB will lose players to smurfs especially new players who will get slaugthered by them even in max lvl 5 servers.
For those who say they do it for their own enjoyment, what about the other players enjoyment? Are they not allowed to play against ppl of their own lvl??[/quote]

It will take a good player in between two to four games to hit level 5. Hopefully a player choosing to level a smurf account won’t be using quick join and won’t be joining max level 5 servers and instead use the server browser and join all level servers.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe smurfs will not join max lvl 5 servers?? For smurfs it’s the easiest way to get quick xp and the “fun” part of completely dominating the new players.[/quote]

You are confusing people who want to level an alt smurf account with griefers. I know tons of people who have multiple accounts for quite a few games. That’s why I explicitly defined (and recently edited) my logic. There is a difference and, like anything else in life, many people have many reasons for doing things.

I’ve thought about creating a smurf account so I can play it entirely with a Steam controller just so I can figure out just how much worse I do comparatively. In that scenario it would most likely even be morally OK to start out on max level 5 servers due to my rather severe handicap in using it/learning it. But I wouldn’t mind getting it setup, see how good it is and seeing if it’s possible for some players (with handicaps or simply prefer a controller) to play DB at a competent level to a keyboard and mouse user. We get quite a few requests for full controller support which SD doesn’t want to officially add (there is controller support in DB but it’s UE3 related and wonky). The Steam controller could be a much better alternative for a lot of people.

I seriously doubt you or anybody would call me a griefer for that.[/quote]

I know exactly what I’m talking about, yes griefers are the worst kind of smurfs but non-griefer smurfs will still have a negative effect on DB.

To make it more clear I’m not really talking for myself, I’m talking for all the potential players DB may loose cause of it.

Ask yourself the question would you like it if you start playing a game and most players you come up against are a few leagues above you in skill would you keep playing it?
Even if you want to be challenged if the skill gap is too big it will make you play better cause you don’t have the chance to get better.
I dare anyone to say that they like losing all the time (I don’t mean it as in losing matches).

(neverplayseriou) #44

@Cappe lightningzor streams almost every evening around 8/8:30 just ask him why he created a smurf (and he did spend money on it).

(Amerika) #45

[quote=“Cappe;105945”][quote=“Amerika;105933”][quote=“Cappe;105931”][quote=“Amerika;105923”][quote=“Cappe;105774”]IMHO smurf account should not be allowed, it will hurt the game more than help it. DB will lose players to smurfs especially new players who will get slaugthered by them even in max lvl 5 servers.
For those who say they do it for their own enjoyment, what about the other players enjoyment? Are they not allowed to play against ppl of their own lvl??[/quote]

It will take a good player in between two to four games to hit level 5. Hopefully a player choosing to level a smurf account won’t be using quick join and won’t be joining max level 5 servers and instead use the server browser and join all level servers.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe smurfs will not join max lvl 5 servers?? For smurfs it’s the easiest way to get quick xp and the “fun” part of completely dominating the new players.[/quote]

You are confusing people who want to level an alt smurf account with griefers. I know tons of people who have multiple accounts for quite a few games. That’s why I explicitly defined (and recently edited) my logic. There is a difference and, like anything else in life, many people have many reasons for doing things.

I’ve thought about creating a smurf account so I can play it entirely with a Steam controller just so I can figure out just how much worse I do comparatively. In that scenario it would most likely even be morally OK to start out on max level 5 servers due to my rather severe handicap in using it/learning it. But I wouldn’t mind getting it setup, see how good it is and seeing if it’s possible for some players (with handicaps or simply prefer a controller) to play DB at a competent level to a keyboard and mouse user. We get quite a few requests for full controller support which SD doesn’t want to officially add (there is controller support in DB but it’s UE3 related and wonky). The Steam controller could be a much better alternative for a lot of people.

I seriously doubt you or anybody would call me a griefer for that.[/quote]

I know exactly what I’m talking about, yes griefers are the worst kind of smurfs but non-griefer smurfs will still have a negative effect on DB.

To make it more clear I’m not really talking for myself, I’m talking for all the potential players DB may loose cause of it.

Ask yourself the question would you like it if you start playing a game and most players you come up against are a few leagues above you in skill would you keep playing it?
Even if you want to be challenged if the skill gap is too big it will make you play better cause you don’t have the chance to get better.
I dare anyone to say that they like losing all the time (I don’t mean it as in losing matches).[/quote]

How does me playing on an account I leveled to 7 within a few games differ from me playing on an account I leveled to 55 in 420 hours? How is that bad for the community? If account level wasn’t shown publicly you’d have no idea outside of checking my steam profile for hours played which isn’t even close to being accurate.

I agree that people who create smurf accounts to intentionally grief with is bad for a game/community. But people who create smurf accounts so that they can mess around on and simply play the game is perfectly fine. You are trying to combine both of those types of players for some reason and I don’t quite understand why. There are tons of legit reasons to create a second account. I don’t have one but I have given you a valid reason as to why I might make one at some point.

Also, I started out playing FPS games with Q3. I got beat down for almost two years by players with a lot more Quake/FPS experience before I was competent and it took me another year or two to become one of the best players in the game. I know not everyone is as thick skinned as me in regards to losing but treating them too much with kid gloves is getting close to “participation award” territory for me.

(Cappe) #46

[quote=“Amerika;105951”]

How does me playing on an account I leveled to 7 within a few games differ from me playing on an account I leveled to 55 in 420 hours? How is that bad for the community? If account level wasn’t shown publicly you’d have no idea outside of checking my steam profile for hours played which isn’t even close to being accurate.

I agree that people who create smurf accounts to intentionally grief with is bad for a game/community. But people who create smurf accounts so that they can mess around on and simply play the game is perfectly fine. You are trying to combine both of those types of players for some reason and I don’t quite understand why. There are tons of legit reasons to create a second account. I don’t have one but I have given you a valid reason as to why I might make one at some point.

Also, I started out playing FPS games with Q3. I got beat down for almost two years by players with a lot more Quake/FPS experience before I was competent and it took me another year or two to become one of the best players in the game. I know not everyone is as thick skinned as me in regards to losing but treating them too much with kid gloves is getting close to “participation award” territory for me.[/quote]

Why would a lvl 55 need a new account other than playing with the lower lvl less experienced players?

How is it bad for the community? It will cause more frustration and badmouthing among the players and make people leave the game. If you see a player that has a lot higher lvl then u know " this guy is better cause he has played this game a lot if I play it a lot I may become that good also", but with smurfs people will think "oh wow this guy is so much better than all the others even the ones of higher lvl must be a hacker, cheater, …).

Well the lvl is shown that’s not the new player’s fault so why go “harass” them with a smurf account?

I am not combining griefsmurfs and non-griefsmurfs, I am stating that non-griefsmurfs do damage to DB too, but less than actual griefsmurfs.

  • new players will quit the game after getting slaughtered by same lvl players.
  • older players will quit out of frustration of getting slaugthered by lower lvl players.
  • it also gives SD false numbers about how many players DB has, if everyone would start making smurf accounts DB will end up with huge amounts of accounts but no players
  • more accounts that will probably never use any real money to buy anything
  • more reports of hackers, which will interfere with catching actual hackers
  • lvls never were much but atleast they were an indication of how experienced a player was with the game but now it even lost that 1 thing it was kind of usefull for.

Was there also a huge range of FPS games to choose from at that time (Q3 time)?

(watsyurdeal) #47

[quote=“Cappe;105963”]
Was there also a huge range of FPS games to choose from at that time (Q3 time)?[/quote]

Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter Strike 1.6, Tribes 2 all came out around that time. So I’d say yes. 1.6 and Tribes 2 were only a year away from the first two.

(Amerika) #48

[quote=“Cappe;105963”]

[quote=“Amerika;105951”]

How does me playing on an account I leveled to 7 within a few games differ from me playing on an account I leveled to 55 in 420 hours? How is that bad for the community? If account level wasn’t shown publicly you’d have no idea outside of checking my steam profile for hours played which isn’t even close to being accurate.

I agree that people who create smurf accounts to intentionally grief with is bad for a game/community. But people who create smurf accounts so that they can mess around on and simply play the game is perfectly fine. You are trying to combine both of those types of players for some reason and I don’t quite understand why. There are tons of legit reasons to create a second account. I don’t have one but I have given you a valid reason as to why I might make one at some point.

Also, I started out playing FPS games with Q3. I got beat down for almost two years by players with a lot more Quake/FPS experience before I was competent and it took me another year or two to become one of the best players in the game. I know not everyone is as thick skinned as me in regards to losing but treating them too much with kid gloves is getting close to “participation award” territory for me.[/quote]

Why would a lvl 55 need a new account other than playing with the lower lvl less experienced players?

How is it bad for the community? It will cause more frustration and badmouthing among the players and make people leave the game. If you see a player that has a lot higher lvl then u know " this guy is better cause he has played this game a lot if I play it a lot I may become that good also", but with smurfs people will think "oh wow this guy is so much better than all the others even the ones of higher lvl must be a hacker, cheater, …).

Well the lvl is shown that’s not the new player’s fault so why go “harass” them with a smurf account?

I am not combining griefsmurfs and non-griefsmurfs, I am stating that non-griefsmurfs do damage to DB too, but less than actual griefsmurfs.

  • new players will quit the game after getting slaughtered by same lvl players.
  • older players will quit out of frustration of getting slaugthered by lower lvl players.
  • it also gives SD false numbers about how many players DB has, if everyone would start making smurf accounts DB will end up with huge amounts of accounts but no players
  • more accounts that will probably never use any real money to buy anything
  • more reports of hackers, which will interfere with catching actual hackers
  • lvls never were much but atleast they were an indication of how experienced a player was with the game but now it even lost that 1 thing it was kind of usefull for.

Was there also a huge range of FPS games to choose from at that time (Q3 time)?[/quote]

Why would a lvl 55 need a new account other than playing with the lower lvl less experienced players?

I answered this question while also giving multiple examples. So please re-read what I wrote. Choosing to ignore answers isn’t a very good idea when you want to argue a point.

I think you are over-analyzing the impact a smurf account has and I don’t know how long you’ve been around the PC gaming scene but it’s barely been an issue in the past outside of those who want to specifically grief. It’s been happening for decades and unless the intent is to grief few players/companies have ever cared. In the past all you had to do was rename yourself through a console command or the UI if you wanted to smurf. It was actually pretty fun trying to figure out who somebody was by playing against them. I could tell probably 80% of the time who exactly a player was in Q3 based on how they played overall, movement, weapon selections in certain situations etc. regardless of the name they were using at the time.

I just don’t agree with most of your bullet points. I think they are either vastly overstating the issue when we’re talking exclusively about players who want a second/third/whatever account to screw around on BUT NOT grief with.

And yes, there were quite a few games to choose from at the time and there was a lot of cross-pollination as well.

(3N1GM4) #49

I have two accounts, but neither is smurf account lol. One is lvl 14 gold 3, one is lvl 11 gold 4. I don’t play games as much as I used to, and accidently created my first account on my old steam account. Now I’ve moved onto my new steam account. Money has been spent on both accounts :wink: so…

I only spent time in public servers until I unlocked comp mode.

(Cappe) #50

Maybe because your ‘answers’ are not considered answers to the question I ask. You keep stating that, in your view, it does not make a difference if you play on a lvl 7 or a lvl 55 account. Then why would you need a lvl 7 account if it doesn’t make a difference. Or to test how the game plays with a controller, why would you need a new account for that? So you don’t embarass yourself or bad stats?

I understand your point of view on the smurf matter but I guess you will never understand mine since you will never get confronted with the problem I’m trying to explain. You say I over-analyse it, ever thought you may be underestimating it?

I’ve played FPS since wolfenstein ET.

(Amerika) #51

[quote=“Cappe;106008”][quote=“Amerika;105988”]

Why would a lvl 55 need a new account other than playing with the lower lvl less experienced players?

I answered this question while also giving multiple examples. So please re-read what I wrote. Choosing to ignore answers isn’t a very good idea when you want to argue a point.
[/quote]
Maybe because your ‘answers’ are not considered answers to the question I ask. You keep stating that, in your view, it does not make a difference if you play on a lvl 7 or a lvl 55 account. Then why would you need a lvl 7 account if it doesn’t make a difference. Or to test how the game plays with a controller, why would you need a new account for that? So you don’t embarass yourself or bad stats?

I understand your point of view on the smurf matter but I guess you will never understand mine since you will never get confronted with the problem I’m trying to explain. You say I over-analyse it, ever thought you may be underestimating it?

I’ve played FPS since wolfenstein ET.
[/quote]

To keep stats separate for comparison sake between playing with a mouse and keyboard vs. a steam controller. I could use it as a “well, here is me with one input and me with another”. That’s good information to know.

But others might just like leveling accounts. People derive fun out of doing a lot of things you might not understand. A friend of mine leveled a Priest in World of Warcraft to max level on multiple servers and had multiple accounts (with more priests). Were they bad for the game? Did any of the things there happen that you mentioned? No.

Why is using a second account you might not spend money on (I would) a bad thing? Some people haven’t paid a dime in Dirty Bomb but they are just as valuable as players who do pay money in regards to keeping the games community alive. If you are playing the game you are helping regardless of spending money on that account or not. If a person feels as if they want to start fresh then let them. If they want to level up an account for a friend who is overseas and get them a bunch of mercs for free then how is that a bad thing?

This has been going on for a very long time. Much of what you outlined isn’t consistent with how things have played out over a very long period of time. Unless we’re talking about people griefing “lowbies”. Then we fully agree.

(Nail) #52

why do people automatically assume smurf accounts are for slaughtering newbs ?
some people may want to keep a serious account for clan competition and a playabout account for trying things out

(Cappe) #53

That comparison does not work DB is a FTP FPS and WoW is subscription fee MMORPG.
Firstly your friend had to pay for those accounts, DB accounts are free.
Secondly leveling in WoW is completely different from DB, leveling up in WoW makes your character stronger and opens up more content to play. In DB the content is not lvl based and your merc does not get stronger. In WoW lvl actually means something.
Thirdly WoW has a huge (paying) community, DB does not even compare to that. If a few people in WoW make a smurf account it does in no way impact the game with already millions of people playing it but for a game with the small community as DB it will have its effects.
Lastly WoW is a PVX game, DB is a PVP only game.

What do you think devs want the most (numbers for the example’s sake) 1000 paying players or 10000 non-paying players? Good luck to the community when the devs get no more money. (I’m not saying everyone should pay for DB but if nobody gives money to the devs anymore even with a huge community the game will die.)
Or rather 10000 accounts and half are regular accounts and the other half are smurf accounts. What would devs have to think of that 'oh nice we have 10000 regular players while its actually only 5000.

And the ‘helping’ a friend thing comes very close to smurf account selling.

Level should atleast be an indicator to (new) people how experienced their teammates/enemies are, but with smurf accounts even that would not be a semi-reliable indicator anymore.

Well I guess I’m the idiot for trying to make you see that the bad effects outweigh the good effects (if there are any at all) from smurf accounts.

(Amerika) #54

What does paying for an account matter? A high level player playing a low level character against other people who might be leveling for the first time or might not be. It’s the same concept. I was trying to provide an example using a different angle to put a spotlight on the issue and that it isn’t a problem and has never been an issue outside of intentional griefing in almost all games in all genres for decades. Basically, all of your assumptions do not jive with actual results over a very long period of time.

And I don’t know why you’re treating people who don’t pay as if they are leeches. Every single F2P game wants people regardless of them being paying customers. Because the longer people play the longer the chances are that they will become paying customers and it keeps the player count higher. It’s the whole reason why F2P games exist. They don’t expect money out of everyone and in fact some expect very little out of most.

But it’s not account selling. Twisting something to make it sound worse than it is is also not a very good way to argue a point just like ignoring answers.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t agree with it and have provided my own reasoning and logic that runs somewhat counter to yours. You are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t based on years of results where most of what I’m saying is. You said you played ET. Did smurfs in ET kill ET or even harm it? If so, how? I played ET too and so did many other people I know. Every single one of us smurfed at times for various reasons. How about any other game? Where did smurfing kill/hurt the game beyond intentional griefing?

And please don’t take the “pity me” route of debate where you believe I’m some poor lost soul who will never see reason because I don’t get it. I’m not the one ignoring your points or twisting them.

(Litego) #55

[quote=“Cappe;106035”]Well I guess I’m the idiot for trying to make you see that the bad effects outweigh the good effects (if there are any at all) from smurf accounts.
[/quote]
Well you still haven’t answered, what are they gonna do about it?

(Cappe) #56

[quote=“Amerika;106039”]What does paying for an account matter? A high level player playing a low level character against other people who might be leveling for the first time or might not be. It’s the same concept. I was trying to provide an example using a different angle to put a spotlight on what this just isn’t a problem and has never been an issue outside of intentional griefing in almost all games in all genres for decades. Basically, all of your assumptions do not jive with actual results over a very long period of time.

And I don’t know why you’re treating people who don’t pay as if they are leeches. Every single F2P game wants people regardless of them being paying customers. Because the longer people play the longer the chances are that they will become paying customers and it keeps the player count higher. It’s the whole reason why F2P games exist. They don’t expect money out of everyone and in fact some expect very little out of most.

But it’s not account selling. Twisting something to make it sound worse than it is is also not a very good way to argue a point just like ignoring answers.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t agree with it and have provided my own reasoning and logic that runs somewhat counter to yours. You are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t based on years of results where most of what I’m saying is. You said you played ET. Did smurfs in ET kill ET or even harm it? If so, how? I played ET too and so did many other people I know. Every single one of us smurfed at times for various reasons. How about any other game? Where did smurfing kill/hurt the game beyond intentional griefing?

And please don’t take the “pity me” route of debate where you believe I’m some poor lost soul who will never see reason because I don’t get it. I’m not the one ignoring your points or twisting them.[/quote]

Tell me what I said was completely wrong about it?
What things did I twist?

I did not ignore any of what you wrote, I just did not continue to argue on things I agree upon, but I guess I should have spelled it out for you.

(Cappe) #57

[quote=“Litego;106042”][quote=“Cappe;106035”]Well I guess I’m the idiot for trying to make you see that the bad effects outweigh the good effects (if there are any at all) from smurf accounts.
[/quote]
Well you still haven’t answered, what are they gonna do about it?[/quote]

At least put it in the rules and if neccesary add report and maybe even punishments.

(Litego) #58

[quote=“Cappe;106057”][quote=“Litego;106042”][quote=“Cappe;106035”]Well I guess I’m the idiot for trying to make you see that the bad effects outweigh the good effects (if there are any at all) from smurf accounts.
[/quote]
Well you still haven’t answered, what are they gonna do about it?[/quote]

At least put it in the rules and if neccesary add report and maybe even punishments.[/quote]

But again, what does that help when they can’t catch a smurf?

(Cappe) #59

I will try to my point across one last time with a very simple example:
Just imagine high lvl players are elephants and new players are ants. If the elephants play amongst themselves there will be no problems for both the elephants and the ants. But if the elephants feel the need to disguise themselves as ants to be able to play among the ants problems will rise. Some elephants will do this because it is “fun” to stomp the ants, but others just want to play with the ants. But in the end they also will be stomping the ants even if it is not intentional. Ants that get stomped a lot will die and eventually there will not be any ants left. So let the ants be ants while they learn to become elephants and let the elephants be patient till more ants become elephants like them.
I hope my little tale will finally get my concerns about this matter across.

@MissMurder What is SD’s stance on this matter?

(Amerika) #60

I seriously can’t facepalm hard enough. You guys have fun with this one.