You have no evidence to show it is other than your opinion. Worst case you present is that a 4-8 player co-op game, played exclusively by those people would have half the number of people on a server than a full game of OBJ. You’d still have 3-7 other players to admire your kit, you’d have weapons and perks to buy (and use in other compatible modes), you’d still have features such as server rental. And this all assumes these people would never, ever try out other modes.
Come on, admit that your only goal is that which you’ve stated in the past. You have no interest in this mode and you want SD to invest all their time on something you want and are interested in. Hiding behind some faux analysis that this would kill the game is just laughable.
Oh and while it’s not F2P Killing Floor has costume DLC, it’s still being supported by the devs so I’m assuming they’re making money off that support. So really, people won’t buy cosmetic items if they can only show them off to team mates?
This is a unique case, every game basically is a new problem so there’s no cases supporting either side. I can only give an analysis of the way the F2P system works and how a game can position itself in such a way that it can make it’s products as desirable as possible. An analysis that remains very much intact right now because I haven’t seen any attempts to rebuke it. Instead we’re hearing about how great bots would be for the player, which is what I think is missing the essence of the discussion.
Thats about the only argument I had say and a very good one you got. Horde or any kind of bots which are not for replacing humans, require a lot of extra. Still bots can be a lot of fun, cannon fodder as such…
Come on. Your analysis was that F2P needs lots of players to be viable - therefor, having less players is bad. Old thinking. This simply isn’t based on the breadth of F2P games on the market, today. Splash Damage could have told you that with their last game.
It’s quite fair to bring up your stance on resources because clearly that is very much a deciding factor on whether any feature in the game is worth implementing. Does it make the product better and so more appealing, does it add another angle to product, is it too expensive (time or money) for the expected pay off. You have a vested interest in SD investing most time in OBJ mode because you see little value in other modes, so it is no wonder that your “expert” opinion settles firmly in other modes being financially poor decisions.
It’s a unique case that you seem singularly expert in. How convenient, “Everyone prove me wrong otherwise I’m right”. How about you prove what you are saying is right, if not totally then with some substance other than your pure opinion.
You state people won’t purchase cosmetic items in a co-op game. I give you a retail game, that is co-op/offline that has a long standing cosmetic DLC history. Can’t provide you numbers but the game is still seeing updates on content, special events and new DLC so I’m guessing they’re not bankrupt.
It’s quite obvious that playing a game mode does not make it exclusively the only mode players play. Most certainly a gamer playing a mode with even a small profit window is better than them not playing at all. Again, you’re act like removing what people want is going to make them accept something that they don’t. At what point are you going to accept that those people are just going to play something else. No money for SD, EVER. No Community/Stats for SD, EVER. No positive buzz for SD, EVER.
Exactly. If you want to make money in a F2P environment, you can market the game to advanced gamers while trying to pry them away from their favorite F2P and FPS games and hope they enjoy the game enough to sell them stuff…
OR
You can offer a F2P game that has multiple modes (competitive vs, horde, bots) to pull in people from different levels and styles of gaming experience in order to increase your game’s population and therefore the ability to advertise your goods.
If it were my company, the only reason I would not focus on adding other modes to pull in more players would be if it was at the expense of the basic game and multiplayer competitive mode. If my company was already stretched to the max and my hands were tied due to time and money constraints, then I’d focus on one thing (competitive multiplayer) and get it out the door and hope for the best. If that does well, then I would possibly invest in adding to the game with bots, a horde mode, etc.
But if I had the resources available, adding the bots or horde mode would NEVER be seen as a negative.
[QUOTE=SinDonor;414012]If it were my company, the only reason I would not focus on adding other modes to pull in more players would be if it was at the expense of the basic game and multiplayer competitive mode. If my company was already stretched to the max and my hands were tied due to time and money constraints, then I’d focus on one thing (competitive multiplayer) and get it out the door and hope for the best. If that does well, then I would possibly invest in adding to the game with bots, a horde mode, etc.
But if I had the resources available, adding the bots or horde mode would NEVER be seen as a negative.[/QUOTE]
I’ll just add that this seems to have been SD’s model all along. Put all your eggs in one basket approach that relies on probably the most fickle and bitchy segment of gamers to champion your product and encourage others to play. It also assumes you can keep those people happy while making the game accessible enough for all new comers. Please see CS:GO for the spittastic opinions on how noobish that is.
Not saying it won’t work this time but from past experience I’d say SD needs to PUT the required resources in place. No cut features, no lack of polish, no relying on one group of gamers to pull them through.
[QUOTE=SinDonor;414012]Exactly. If you want to make money in a F2P environment, you can market the game to advanced gamers while trying to pry them away from their favorite F2P and FPS games and hope they enjoy the game enough to sell them stuff…
[/QUOTE]
With product I mean merchandise. Sorry for the confusion. Product and merchandise are different things. The game should be seen as the platform to sell the merchandise on.
For the sake of discussion: At least acknowledge the possibility that certain things in the platform may be desired by the players but may take away from the desire to buy stuff. That adding more and more and giving people everything they want isn’t always profitable. It works when they need to buy the game but in F2P anything you give to players competes with what you offer them to buy. It doesn’t have to be bots but at least recognise this as possible and take it into account when suggesting new material. That way the discussion would be more fruitful, then you can still make a case why including modes like these would increase the desire to purchase things. That’s something that would be really worth discussing.
[QUOTE=tokamak;414018]
For the sake of discussion: At least acknowledge the possibility that certain things in the platform may be desired by the players but may take away from the desire to buy stuff. That adding more and more and giving people everything they want isn’t always profitable. It works when they need to buy the game but in F2P anything you give to players competes with what you offer them to buy. It doesn’t have to be bots but at least recognise this as possible and take it into account when suggesting new material. That way the discussion would be more fruitful, then you can still make a case why including modes like these would increase the desire to purchase things. That’s something that would be really worth discussing.[/QUOTE]
It was already suggested that the bot mode itself could come with a price tag.
They should look at selling shirts and possibly action figures. The art style seems unique enough and they can do small runs to start with, testing the waters. It’s how musicians make their money nowadays (since the music companies take most of the actual money and the damn kids nowadays with their downloading and not paying for music… but they will pay for tshirts and buttons and whatnot).
They should look at selling shirts and possibly action figures. The art style seems unique enough and they can do small runs to start with, testing the waters. It’s how musicians make their money nowadays (since the music companies take most of the actual money and the damn kids nowadays with their downloading and not paying for music… but they will pay for tshirts and buttons and whatnot).[/QUOTE]
I would buy a Tapir’s Arms pub t-shirt. Not gonna lie.
Maybe it’s possible to make something completely free and then make profit of real-life merch. I just don’t think its very probable and needs to be seen as a bonus more than anything else.
Possibly, but I think that’d be another thread (and I don’t think that’s SD’s intentions).
This has been enough of a tangent to this thread (although I still think this thread has played itself out).
I don’t think it has. All we’ve heard is why bots would be fun for the player and nobody is disagreeing with that. I’m allowing for the possibility that bots could make profit but I don’t see how you can do that without the threats to the desire to purchase content as I provided.
You entirely one-sided on this issue. How is it that a bot/co-op mode threatens the desire to purchase, but a full online pvp mode does not? In either scenario, there are going to be both casuals and and more ‘hardcore’ players, who won’t drop a dime on anything. You are also still treating this like a “this or that” situation, like players will only play one or the other. It is completely rational to expect new players to perhaps start with a bot mode and move over into the pvp mode, where they can then become (as you described) a community member that matters. It has more to do with the individual themselves and the attraction the game has on them, regardless of the game-mode. If people are willing to spend money in Farmville, I don’t see how players would be as reluctant as you claim, to drop some some money playing in a bot mode.
And just for clarification, I am suggesting that the bot mode would need to be an entirely redesigned mode just for bots - it could simply be the regular game with bot support, that doesn’t interfere with the pvp community.
