Anti-Cheat: Fair Fight

(robustWonder) #61

[quote=“triteTongs;47059”][quote=“robustWonder;46269”]

The only people I have seen cheating and bypass FF for a while are people who toggle their triggerbot/aimbot…[/quote]
So that’s what I’m worried of.

http://www.titanfall.com/news/we-hate-cheaters-just-as-much-as-you-do

“We will be continuing to tweak the algorithm over time to catch more cheaters.”
In otherwords, lower the threshold.

But based on your article a few posts up, I can only see FF being used for very specific things (nospread, snapping, Aim Mouvement per frame, Ranges on kills, etc)

But FF can also ban from multiple headshots. But newsflash… Dirty Bomb is all about those headshots.

So what if you are a sniper? I’ve seen amazing snipers in Dirty Bomb. Even amazing Driess AR users. No doubt they’d get banned even if they were legit. From what I gathered from Fairfight, I’m guessing all it takes is to collect enough flags of great plays to get banned.

Killed a team of 6 players because they were all AFK loading in? Flagged.
Lagged out then warped across the map? Flagged.

And what about this?

  • Tracking key you press (Example: If you keep spamming Insert while in-game, associated to cheat)

How does it decypher if that’s just spamming your in-game MUMBLE/TEAMSPEAK key?

If this was enabled in a game like CSGO, how many legit players would be banned because of it? I just don’t see how all the features of FF could be used in a game like dirty bomb.
Dirty Bomb trying to be pretty competitive game. Something like FF could kill it if they tweak the algorithm wrong. That’s just my fear. I’d rather have something that bans with 100% certainty for a competitive game.

But I trust the devs to find a solution. Even if they use FF, I trust that they will do plenty of tests with the best dirty bomb players and keep a very close eye on the data before setting it to ‘automatic ban’.[/quote]

Multiple headshots are fine, but someone who is always getting 80% headshots all the time with multiple weapons over a period of 2 months will be flagged.

It is not about a player getting lucky one or two games, it is about players constantly playing outside of human capability and always playing above the legitimate skill players level (such as always tracking people through walls or always running through empty combat zones and instantly stopping when an enemy is near even if they shouldn’t know it.

This is the difference between short term and long term statistics.

Fairfight is great as a program which runs on the servers which means it has no effect on players FPS. It collects statistics over a long period of time and flags players.

Alone Fairfight is good anti-cheat but it should be combined with another anti-cheat that runs PC checks or at least GMs who can check out and ban blatant rerolls trolling games.

(Ghosthree3) #62

Tracking through walls is obviously an easy flag - if heartbeat sensor can be recognised and ignored. Not sure about the % of headshots though, I mean most people only aim head anyway, possibly missing the body on purpose just to make sure they have the highest chance to hit the head.

(KangaJoo) #63

Those aren’t the kind of stats FF usually looks at. From my experience with BF4 fairfight would catch people for more specific but much more reliable stats like consistently and instantly snapping their crosshair to a specific spot onto enemies, having extremely high accuracy while hipfiring with assault rifles on enemies that are very far away (something that would be impossible in BF4), killing enemies that had 100 HP in 1 bullet with a gun that should only do 25 damage, etc. I don’t think anybody was ever FF banned for having a high KDR or something like that. Hell my KDR was higher than half the cheaters I ran into and I never had issues with FF.

(RuleofBooKz) #64

what about people that can only play really really well when really really drunk

like drunken masters?

how does the software know when ur really really drunk? u slurr when joo typings??

(Bu5hmast3r) #65

So many untrue Gossip here about Fairfight. I know the Fairfight system very long from BF4 and it does a very good job especially on closet cheaters. The Advantage of this System is that no one barely know how it works and what data can be sampled by FF.
I dont care much about the AJ/AAA kids who going full Rtrd on the server. They get banned very fast and it’s obvious for all other players on the server. So a Kick Vote can help very quick.
More annoying are the closet cheaters which are using the Hax partially. A little bit of ESP or a tight angle triggered Aimbot. Also they have always a bunch of naive fanboys around who will not stopping tell everybody how good this player are.
This type of cheater is hard to find out, even spectating will not help 100%. Thats when FF beats into. Mostly when this poor Cheater spend a lot of real money on Elite Customs, then his career is over. And the Money is gone.

DB should hire FF. It’s worth and the legit players would have much less frustration.

(Pogo) #66

Fair Fight isn’t going to quickly ban anyone cheating, so it shouldn’t replace XIGN3 entirely. But, it would do a much, much better job at getting statistics on closet cheaters and feeding that data to Dirty Bomb’s dev team for a manual ban.

Fair Fight in APB does a good job, but it does have its controversies.

I’ve also put at least 4000 hours into APB, have been in a clan that’s maintained the leaderboards in 2010 (realtime worlds apb) and I have never seen a game that is as overexaggerated about cheaters as this one.

Fair Fight does a good job. There were a few very compelling cases of false bans, such as a player allegedly Fair Fight banned for stream sniping a popular Twitch streamer, but sadly no one knows who cheats and who doesn’t, and no one knows who is legit and who isn’t, except themselves.

(robustWonder) #67

[quote=“Pogo;47449”]
Fair Fight does a good job. There were a few very compelling cases of false bans, such as a player allegedly Fair Fight banned for stream sniping a popular Twitch streamer, but sadly no one knows who cheats and who doesn’t, and no one knows who is legit and who isn’t, except themselves. [/quote]

That’s because Tiggs manually banned that player. There was another instance she banned a player during a stream for harassment as the player was not part of the mission but still interfering in the streamers game. Even though the ban was completely manual and had nothing to do with FF, the server announced it as a FF ban.

(srswizard) #68

I think this player is a good example, for when speaking against banning players based on statistics:

Heck, even if you could review this dude’s gameplay demo, after he’s been reported, most people would still probably call hacks.
I’m fairly sure that his playstyle would get flagged by FF, too.

(triteTongs) #69

I think this is my concern. It needs to be tailored to each game specifically.
Some stats will give a false flag in Dirty Bomb but would have otherwise been perfect for BF4.
I have no idea what type of control you can get with FF, but it just seems like you can tweak it the wrong way.

In my opinion, it should be tweaked so it NEVER falsely bans legit players. If that means some closet cheaters get away, so be it. Hopefully they get caught through a dual anticheat system or they trip up and become blatant when they cheat drunk or something.

Plus, even with a game like dirty bomb-- it’s actually pretty easy to win against a fully blatant cheater (Orbital Lasers, Nades, etc are all effective counters to a blatant cheater) I’ve done it plenty of times. So a closet cheater won’t be able to do shit against a good team with comms… those good players will still outplay them.

(Ghosthree3) #70

Well my aim looks like garbage now, thanks.
Also he seems to either use really high mouse sensitivity or really high accel. I’m so jealous of that control.

Also can comfortably say it’s not cheating since he does the same snapping motions everywhere, not just when he’s aiming at people. The exact same snapping.

(Pogo) #71

That’s what I’m getting at honestly. Fair Fight as an anti-cheat is fantastic, but it can easily be abused. That is its biggest controversy.

(sixten) #72

[quote=“srswizard;47477”]I think this player is a good example, for when speaking against banning players based on statistics:

Heck, even if you could review this dude’s gameplay demo, after he’s been reported, most people would still probably call hacks.
I’m fairly sure that his playstyle would get flagged by FF, too.[/quote]

It would get flagged cause that’s not clean. What he’s doing is impossible.

The only thing that aim’s like that is a bot. You would have to be blind to not see that he’s shooting at people he cant even see yet. See 4.52 below.

(Ghosthree3) #73

The first 2 are definitely visible. The 3rd I can’t tell, perhaps he saw muzzle flashes earlier or it’s just a common spot for people to be? I don’t know the game well enough. There’s multiple times in the previous video where he did similar test shots in spots likely to have players that gave no hit markers. Dunno, could have lucked out, could be cheating. I honestly can’t tell.

(sixten) #74

The first 2 are definitely visible. The 3rd I can’t tell, perhaps he saw muzzle flashes earlier or it’s just a common spot for people to be? I don’t know the game well enough. There’s multiple times in the previous video where he did similar test shots in spots likely to have players that gave no hit markers. Dunno, could have lucked out, could be cheating. I honestly can’t tell.[/quote]

That was one of the more obvious ones in that video of shooting something without knowledge of it, but if you watch the whole thing on any of his videos you’ll soon start questioning it.

I didn’t read the initial post, i just watched the video and thought i was watching a cheater. Nor have I ever heard of this guy so my opinion is unbiased, yet its only an opinion at the end of the day.

(robustWonder) #75

That’s what I’m getting at honestly. Fair Fight as an anti-cheat is fantastic, but it can easily be abused. That is its biggest controversy. [/quote]

Possible abuse shouldn’t be a controversy at all. The only people that can abuse FF are developers and it is not the developers best interest to set FF to ban legitimate players.

Also, if a developer were going to intentionally abuse FF, that same person would abuse any system in place be it FF, PB, or VAC.

Abuse is not a controversy until it happens because no matter what, we as players have no power before it happens.

(sinKrin) #76

I’ve never heard of this FF program but I’m liking the idea behind it.

(Pogo) #77

[quote=“sixten;45940”][quote=“PurpleNurple;45936”]Let’s get a couple things clear here. Fairfight isn’t usually set to only detect blatant cheaters. It’s usually set to a point where it tries to detect closet cheaters meaning their settings could by some chance be replicated by people who twitch shoot or have a series of insanely lucky shots. Fairfight when calibrated to look for closets is no where near set to inhuman settings so let’s get that BS out of your heads. If you have no idea how the anti cheat actually works don’t open your mouth and spread lies to other people. Fairfight is the malware bytes of anti cheat. It works to an extent and should not be relied on to rid the game of cheaters.

The only way i’d ever approve of FF is if it’s set to only ban blatants and leave actual anti cheat to find closet cheaters. I’m not going to argue with anyone about this so don’t bother. This is just to educate the people who were already persuaded into thinking it’s a solution to the cheating problem. The ones that think I’m secretly some cheater butthurt about getting “caught” can continue to live their sheltered lives in ignorance.[/quote]

You got banned for cheating, we haven’t been “false” banned by it. There isn’t much more to say other than it does it’s job.[/quote]

You sit behind his computer 24/7 and know for sure he was cheating? How can you be so confident judging someone you’ve never seen play the game?

(Guilte) #78

People saying that the video posted is “impossible” to do have never watched someone play quake.

I’m not sure what you think is impossible about throwing your mouse around a desk.

I’m also pretty sure that’s a fairly well known BF player. If it’s the same one I’m remembering, he plays the exact same on LAN.

As far as an ACS goes, Punkbuster is awful. FF sounds like it could be good, but I wouldn’t want legitimate players being banned, especially within the competitive scene. The stigma that comes with being banned for cheating is awful (and rightfully so), but I’d never want a legitimate player to have to deal with that.

The only effective ACS I think I’ve ever played on is ESEA’s.

And to the people concerned with privacy. The more envasive, the better the ACS when it comes to detecting cheaters.

(Kaos88) #79

APB did seem to get cleaned up a lot after they introduced it but still not perfect. A mixture of a anti-cheat on top of FF is the answer for sure.

(Kroad) #80

[quote=“Guilte;48434”]
I’m also pretty sure that’s a fairly well known BF player. If it’s the same one I’m remembering, he plays the exact same on LAN.[/quote]
yep, he has videos from LAN on his channel. I’m fairly sure that if a player with videos like his were to cheat at LAN, he would be caught rather quickly.

although best people to ask about this would of course be outc1der and t0m as they have actually played vs him.