Anti-Cheat: Fair Fight

(robustWonder) #1

I play APB Reloaded and the only thing that is keeping a lot of cheaters in check is Fair Fight. It does not check for softare, all this does is compile stats and if anyone is beyond the human range of accuracy (among other things) Fair Fight tags them.

RP/G1 ran Fair Fight without telling people for months then suddenly released information and a massive ban wave. This ban wave caught obvious cheaters and a lot of our “elite veteran” players that played for years.

Fair Fight does not catch every cheater. If a cheater tones down their cheat program to human standards they can bypass being tagged which is a lot better than being cannon fodder to the super humans I have been seeing the last couple of days because of the event.

This game needs to look into Fair Fight.

Threads on Fair Fight on other forums:

https://storify.com/kozmok/how-to-hack-online-games-using-fairfight-anticheat

(PurpleNurple) #2

Fairfight also bans legit players. Whether you want to believe it or not it does.

(robustWonder) #3

Name one anti-cheat program that is 100% accurate in catching all cheaters and never banning legit players.

Fairfight works.

(PurpleNurple) #4

Name one anti-cheat program that is 100% accurate in catching all cheaters and never banning legit players.

Fairfight works.
[/quote]

Process detecting false bans can be disputed by figuring out what triggered it. Stat based bans can’t. Getting a false ban through Fairfight has showed me how closed minded and desperate people are to claim everyone better than them is a cheater. I played APB since RTW and was given nothing but copy paste reply.

Fairfight is great for catching cheaters, but 1 banned legit isn’t worth 1000 banned rerolls. After it happened to me I have no idea who cheated or who didn’t when it comes to FF. It’s not perfect what so ever and should not be used unless you have an amazing support team that actually looks into cases instead of copy pasting replies.

(robustWonder) #5

Name one anti-cheat program that is 100% accurate in catching all cheaters and never banning legit players.

Fairfight works.
[/quote]

Process detecting false bans can be disputed by figuring out what triggered it. Stat based bans can’t. Getting a false ban through Fairfight has showed me how closed minded and desperate people are to claim everyone better than them is a cheater. I played APB since RTW and was given nothing but copy paste reply.

Fairfight is great for catching cheaters, but 1 banned legit isn’t worth 1000 banned rerolls. After it happened to me I have no idea who cheated or who didn’t when it comes to FF. It’s not perfect what so ever and should not be used unless you have an amazing support team that actually looks into cases instead of copy pasting replies. [/quote]

in reality, one false ban is worth 1000 legit bans.

1000 cheaters costs the game more legit players than losing one “legit” player. I still read about how many of the old elite vets claim they were falsely banned for using a simple rapid fire macro when I know they do not ban players for macro’s like that (I use rapid fire macro’s in my Logitech mice and have never been banned).

If you were truly a legitimate player you would understand how much damage cheaters do to a game. And like I stated, no anti-cheat is 100% accurate. Your statement basically says “no cheat is 100% accurate so don’t bother, after all cheaters don’t hurt a game that much”.

(Bookieman) #6

Splash Damage used Punkbuster in Enemy Territory for years and to my knowledge very effectively. PB would be my choice of software since it seems to work well enough in other games as well. Though as you said nothing is 100% failsafe. The obvious solution would be to have a game that would work without any 3rd party programs. Does TF2 have any added security?

It suprises me a bit that the only way they are handling I guess the only way to handle the cheating thing atm is this tedious, labor intensive but - quite honestly - ineffective “take a screenshot, record a video and tell us about it on the forums”. This solution takes me back atleast 10 years to those late night clanbase aftermatches where someone was watching the whole match recording on a separate PC with all the cheats enabled just to prove that the other guys were cheating. Pfft - those were NOT the days :bawling:

I’d say it’s a phase that will go by eventually when Splash Damage gets things fixed. On the meantime it is fun to realize though that the top 3 results in google for Dirty Bomb are: aimbot, hacks and cheats.

(Ghosthree3) #7

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.

(RuleofBooKz) #8

if a system leads to one legit player getting a black mark then that is in fact a big issue and a concern for everyone.

fairfight seems interesting, punkbuster wasn’t so hot

The address the concern, the box needing to be ticked, with the system is not that its 100% effective with a zero legit player collateral - thats never going to happen nothings perfect - its that its got a great human support service that can deal with issues that any automated system generates in a professional but fast, friendly and effective manner

(robustWonder) #9

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.[/quote]

Never been banned and would gladly eat my account being banned if I knew 1000 real cheaters were also banned.

I’m not a selfish bastard who cares more about myself than the game or legitimate people playing the game.

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;45320”]if a system leads to one legit player getting a black mark then that is in fact a big issue and a concern for everyone.

fairfight seems interesting, punkbuster wasn’t so hot

The address the concern, the box needing to be ticked, with the system is not that its 100% effective with a zero legit player collateral - thats never going to happen nothings perfect - its that its got a great human support service that can deal with issues that any automated system generates in a professional but fast, friendly and effective manner[/quote]

The only false bans I saw in APB were either through Punkbuster or the admins/devs using FF to manually ban players they did not like or were interfering in a gamers stream. Someone set it up so any ban was listed in a server wide chat as if FF banned them even if it were a manual ban that had nothing to do with FF detection.

(sixten) #10

I’ve yet to see a false positive ban come from FF in relation to APB. Anyone who has been banned from FF in APB was either cheating or macro’n. It’s that simple.

-8bit

(PurpleNurple) #11

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.[/quote]

Never been banned and would gladly eat my account being banned if I knew 1000 real cheaters were also banned.

I’m not a selfish bastard who cares more about myself than the game or legitimate people playing the game.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with caring more about myself you mong. This is about FF not being entirely accurate and not having a legit way to dispute a false trigger. 1000 of those bans aren’t all different people either. Most cheaters re-roll a new account right when they get banned. It’s like being found somewhere a murder took place. If all evidence points to you and you have no way to prove it’s not you you’re fucked. Now you just went to jail for doing nothing and depending on what state you’re in you could be put to death. If you think for a second that 1 legit ban is worth 1000 re-roll bans you can get the fuck out. 5000 hours and 2k$+ down the drain. Closed minded people like you need to stay in APB waiting for the engine upgrade that was supposed to happen 2 years ago and leave the rest of the good games alone.

(robustWonder) #12

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.[/quote]

Never been banned and would gladly eat my account being banned if I knew 1000 real cheaters were also banned.

I’m not a selfish bastard who cares more about myself than the game or legitimate people playing the game.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with caring more about myself you mong. This is about FF not being entirely accurate and not having a legit way to dispute a false trigger. 1000 of those bans aren’t all different people either. Most cheaters re-roll a new account right when they get banned. It’s like being found somewhere a murder took place. If all evidence points to you and you have no way to prove it’s not you you’re fucked. Now you just went to jail for doing nothing and depending on what state you’re in you could be put to death. If you think for a second that 1 legit ban is worth 1000 re-roll bans you can get the fuck out. 5000 hours and 2k$+ down the drain. Closed minded people like you need to stay in APB waiting for the engine upgrade that was supposed to happen 2 years ago and leave the rest of the good games alone.[/quote]

There is a way to dispute being banned. You contact customer service. They can reinstate your account.

Reading your posts reminds me of the same arguments cheaters posted across many forums where anti-cheat topics were discussed. It is a very common tactic for cheaters to try and make an anti-cheat program seem broken by claiming you were falsely banned and it can not be trusted.

I don’t know any legit player that argues in such a selfish manner to try and keep an anti-cheat that has proven to work out of a game.

(PurpleNurple) #13

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.[/quote]

Never been banned and would gladly eat my account being banned if I knew 1000 real cheaters were also banned.

I’m not a selfish bastard who cares more about myself than the game or legitimate people playing the game.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with caring more about myself you mong. This is about FF not being entirely accurate and not having a legit way to dispute a false trigger. 1000 of those bans aren’t all different people either. Most cheaters re-roll a new account right when they get banned. It’s like being found somewhere a murder took place. If all evidence points to you and you have no way to prove it’s not you you’re fucked. Now you just went to jail for doing nothing and depending on what state you’re in you could be put to death. If you think for a second that 1 legit ban is worth 1000 re-roll bans you can get the fuck out. 5000 hours and 2k$+ down the drain. Closed minded people like you need to stay in APB waiting for the engine upgrade that was supposed to happen 2 years ago and leave the rest of the good games alone.[/quote]

There is a way to dispute being banned. You contact customer service. They can reinstate your account.

Reading your posts reminds me of the same arguments cheaters posted across many forums where anti-cheat topics were discussed.

I don’t know any legit player that argues in such a selfish manner to try and keep an anti-cheat that has proven to work out of a game.[/quote]

What ever you say bud. Just wait til it happens to you. There’s no point in continuing a discussion with someone that doesn’t accept the fact that false bans do happen.

(Ghosthree3) #14

I have no problem with any anti cheat as long as it doesn’t false ban or ignore my privacy.

(robustWonder) #15

I’d love to see you say that if you were the one.[/quote]

Never been banned and would gladly eat my account being banned if I knew 1000 real cheaters were also banned.

I’m not a selfish bastard who cares more about myself than the game or legitimate people playing the game.
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with caring more about myself you mong. This is about FF not being entirely accurate and not having a legit way to dispute a false trigger. 1000 of those bans aren’t all different people either. Most cheaters re-roll a new account right when they get banned. It’s like being found somewhere a murder took place. If all evidence points to you and you have no way to prove it’s not you you’re fucked. Now you just went to jail for doing nothing and depending on what state you’re in you could be put to death. If you think for a second that 1 legit ban is worth 1000 re-roll bans you can get the fuck out. 5000 hours and 2k$+ down the drain. Closed minded people like you need to stay in APB waiting for the engine upgrade that was supposed to happen 2 years ago and leave the rest of the good games alone.[/quote]

There is a way to dispute being banned. You contact customer service. They can reinstate your account.

Reading your posts reminds me of the same arguments cheaters posted across many forums where anti-cheat topics were discussed.

I don’t know any legit player that argues in such a selfish manner to try and keep an anti-cheat that has proven to work out of a game.[/quote]

What ever you say bud. Just wait til it happens to you. There’s no point in continuing a discussion with someone that doesn’t accept the fact that false bans do happen. [/quote]

legit players don’t have much to worry about concerning FairFight.

The program looks for players who exceed human capabilities and track people through walls among other things. FairFight can also be programmed specific to each game so game mechanics do not interfere.

I doubt you were ever falsely banned by FF. From the self centered tone in your posts and the fight you are putting up to try and stop FF, it sounds to me like you were caught and banned.

Read multiple posts like yours trying to stop anti-cheat programs in more than one forum.

(Tomme) #16

I think you will struggle to find an anti-cheat that emphasises or respects user privacy.

More on topic, I dislike statistically labeling players, yes it would probably work fine with extreme outliers but then that is a large investment just to help the fight against rage-aimbots when compared to other “traditional” anti-cheats which can help fight against all kinds of cheats.

(robustWonder) #17

I think you will struggle to find an anti-cheat that emphasises or respects user privacy,
[/quote]

FF is run server side only and basically looks at stats gathered over a long period of time. Unlike PB or VAC it never touches a players PC.

(Ghosthree3) #18

This I like. Dunno how it tells what people are looking at from the server perspective though. Surely so much would be missed server side. If it works though, that’s brilliant.

(Tomme) #19

I think you will struggle to find an anti-cheat that emphasises or respects user privacy,
[/quote]

FF is run server side only and basically looks at stats gathered over a long period of time. Unlike PB or VAC it never touches a players PC.[/quote]

It never touches a user PC because it is uses statistical analysis to find cheaters - but like I said FF is useful for finding rage-aimbots and extremely obvious cheaters but if you want it to find “less obvious” cheaters than it gets hairy real quick and legit players can get quickly mixed in. Remember as well you can’t just setup FF and it works, you need to perform long term analysis of the game you implement it on as every game is different or you will get horrific results.

FF is good but to rely on it heavily is down right stupid, SD need to implement a more “traditional” anti-cheat then maybe SD can look into FF and other “supporting” statistical anti-cheats.

(robustWonder) #20

I think you will struggle to find an anti-cheat that emphasises or respects user privacy,
[/quote]

FF is run server side only and basically looks at stats gathered over a long period of time. Unlike PB or VAC it never touches a players PC.[/quote]

It never touches a user PC because it is uses statistical analysis to find cheaters - but like I said FF is useful for finding rage-aimbots and extremely obvious cheaters but if you want it to find “less obvious” cheaters than it gets hairy real quick and legit players can get quickly mixed in. Remember as well you can’t just setup FF and it works, you need to perform long term analysis of the game you implement it on as every game is different or you will get horrific results.

FF is good but to rely on it heavily is down right stupid, SD need to implement a more “traditional” anti-cheat then maybe SD can look into FF and other “supporting” statistical anti-cheats.[/quote]

FF gathers statistics over a long period of time. It doesn’t tag players who get lucky one game because they just happened to toss a grenade on a whole team stupid enough to gather in one spot. FF ignores outliers.

There is a statistical difference between a legitimate player and one who uses cheats. Basically if you want to fool FF while cheating, you pretty much have to set the cheat settings so low you are statistically playing like a normal human. Even then cheaters have certain behavioral patterns which emerge given time such as always ignoring empty areas because they know enemies aren’t around or tracking enemy players through walls which normal players never do 100% of the time.

IMO, the best way to catch cheaters is to use an anti-cheat program flagging people and a GM with good support options double checking then banning manually.