Anti-Cheat: Fair Fight

(RuleofBooKz) #41

There is “Good”. then there is “very good”. There is even “godlike” if they are that good a top shelf player. These are not the players stat software would be looking to black mark from my understanding of how it works. Then there is “inhuman”. Made so because of the software they are using. Because they are naughty. These are the ones the program wants to cuddle

(PurpleNurple) #42

Let’s get a couple things clear here. Fairfight isn’t usually set to only detect blatant cheaters. It’s usually set to a point where it tries to detect closet cheaters meaning their settings could by some chance be replicated by people who twitch shoot or have a series of insanely lucky shots. Fairfight when calibrated to look for closets is no where near set to inhuman settings so let’s get that BS out of your heads. If you have no idea how the anti cheat actually works don’t open your mouth and spread lies to other people. Fairfight is the malware bytes of anti cheat. It works to an extent and should not be relied on to rid the game of cheaters.

The only way i’d ever approve of FF is if it’s set to only ban blatants and leave actual anti cheat to find closet cheaters. I’m not going to argue with anyone about this so don’t bother. This is just to educate the people who were already persuaded into thinking it’s a solution to the cheating problem. The ones that think I’m secretly some cheater butthurt about getting “caught” can continue to live their sheltered lives in ignorance.

(sixten) #43

[quote=“PurpleNurple;45936”]Let’s get a couple things clear here. Fairfight isn’t usually set to only detect blatant cheaters. It’s usually set to a point where it tries to detect closet cheaters meaning their settings could by some chance be replicated by people who twitch shoot or have a series of insanely lucky shots. Fairfight when calibrated to look for closets is no where near set to inhuman settings so let’s get that BS out of your heads. If you have no idea how the anti cheat actually works don’t open your mouth and spread lies to other people. Fairfight is the malware bytes of anti cheat. It works to an extent and should not be relied on to rid the game of cheaters.

The only way i’d ever approve of FF is if it’s set to only ban blatants and leave actual anti cheat to find closet cheaters. I’m not going to argue with anyone about this so don’t bother. This is just to educate the people who were already persuaded into thinking it’s a solution to the cheating problem. The ones that think I’m secretly some cheater butthurt about getting “caught” can continue to live their sheltered lives in ignorance.[/quote]

You got banned for cheating, we haven’t been “false” banned by it. There isn’t much more to say other than it does it’s job.

(Smokahontas) #44

As far as i know FF never banned a legit player. I also experienced it in BF4 and unlike Sinist i thought it was doing its job very good, i mean those blatant ones got banned pretty fast (usually the day after they started). To me FF seems more effective than most other AntiCheats.

(watsyurdeal) #45

In theory, sounds great, but I think a three layer system would be ideal.

First, checks what is statistically possible, second, detects what processes were running while the game was, and third, if all else fails and something still seems fishy, someone should investigate it to see if it looks legitimate or not.

(KangaJoo) #46

Fairfight is good but it’s not meant to be the only anticheat used for a game. It’s supposed to be used in conjunction with something like punkbuster, a program that detects suspicious programs on your pc, to catch players that are using cheats that go undetected. This type of set up worked extremely well in BF4 with hardly any cheaters in the player base compared to BF3 (a game that only used PB).

I also played BF4 competitively for a while and there were absolutely no false positives amongst the competitive players. Maybe there were issues in other games because it was the only anti cheat being used and, as a result, they made it too strict? Also, Fairfight doesn’t use stats like KDR to ban people, I had a higher KDR and score per minute than some people I know who got FF bans, it uses much deeper stats than that so it’s very unlikely that it will ban someone “for being too good” unless it isn’t set up properly.

(Smokahontas) #47

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;45983”]In theory, sounds great, but I think a three layer system would be ideal.

First, checks what is statistically possible, second, detects what processes were running while the game was, and third, if all else fails and something still seems fishy, someone should investigate it to see if it looks legitimate or not.[/quote]

That would be ideal.

(bontsa) #48

This thread gives me much brighter view for the future of DB ^^ Had never heard of FF or any stat- based ACC’s, only familiar with VAC and PB.

(ZephyR) #49

At least in older games Splash Damage was related to, there were Punkbuster (and less notably SLAC/TZAC and UAC). RTCW and ET lost Punkbuster support. ET later got SLAC/TZAC support, which as far as I understand was written by a former cheat developer – some of the playerbase didn’t really like that fact. When TZAC ran into issues, UAC agreed to provide support, but was later dropped as the UAC team essentially ended operations.

With reference to some Unreal Tournament engine based anticheats, there have been ACE/UTDC/UTDCPlus that had some success earlier on. As far as I understand ACE predominately worked with verifying that the Unreal Scripting engine wasn’t modified or altered in any way while UTDC/UTDC plus mostly looked at hook-based cheats.

The only thing I can see from this thread so far is disappointment in XIGNCODE3, which is fair. Considering XIGNCODE3’s track record has been less than stellar at least from my personal experience. With concerns raised with stat-based cheat detection, I think that it can be useful, but shouldn’t be a main determinant for a ban (other than blatant cheating). I think it gives good context, but I agree that a multi-pronged approach is warranted.

There are a few games that have FPS/Multiplayer aspects using the Unreal Engine that have integration with VAC (Homefront and Red Orchestra come to mind), though I don’t know the level of effort involved development wise, or if it is going to be helpful (since I have no experience with either of those games).

(novelJoke) #50

I think anti-cheat should in fact search/be on your computer. Hell I think hacking in game should have a real life fine to it if caught.

The fact there is little to no reprecussions from constantly cheating in a game is why people do it and the fact that there are so many willing to buy cheats is what makes it a lucrative business for those making them.

You can set and debate which anti-cheat is best but they all have workarounds by the hacking community (especially PB). Until there is an actual real life consquence to cheating, it will always be there (even after the real life consquences but a lot less when people start getting fined $5000 everytime they’re caught or such).

(Harlot) #51

I would much rather an anti-cheat that goes after people running programs than checks for stats. I just played against a guy who was blatantly hacking but still only compiled a 36/15 score. This probably wouldn’t be tagged under FF.

My whole team agreed it was fucky. He domed me 3 shots in a row with a revolver at about 50 yards while I was sprinting. In duels, he straight up ignored aim punch and had perfect accuracy and he prefired coming around corners. He would snap turn 180 degrees and instantly be headshotting you. He just had god awful positioning and often walked into a 2 vs 1, although he’d usually pick up a kill before dying. He also struggled with Bushwhacker turrets.

Fair Fight isn’t bad, but I’ve heard a lot of people knock it. Triggerbotting is getting big and would be an easy way around FF. It’s a huge advantage, but you don’t get the gaudy scores or look like a 360spinbot while using it.

(triteTongs) #52

[quote=“Harlot;46216”]I would much rather an anti-cheat that goes after people running programs than checks for stats. I just played against a guy who was blatantly hacking but still only compiled a 36/15 score. This probably wouldn’t be tagged under FF.

[/quote]

Nope, It will only tag and ban people who are playing the newly released mercs.
For example, phantom.

Welp, there I go because I went 80-10. Thanks auras and proxies for running into my blade. Now I’m banned.

Fair? Nope.

(Harlot) #53

[quote=“triteTongs;46226”][quote=“Harlot;46216”]I would much rather an anti-cheat that goes after people running programs than checks for stats. I just played against a guy who was blatantly hacking but still only compiled a 36/15 score. This probably wouldn’t be tagged under FF.

[/quote]

Nope, It will only tag and ban people who are playing the newly released mercs.
For example, phantom.

Welp, there I go because I went 80-10. Thanks auras and proxies for running into my blade. Now I’m banned.

Fair? Nope.

[/quote]

I’m not so concerned about false positive bans. I drop some pretty nuts games often. 60+ kills with minimal deaths, 20/0 Objective defenses etc. I don’t really think I’d be tagged, though. I have horrendous games, or games where I can’t get anything going.

I’m more worried about triggerbotters who aren’t very good at the game flying under the radar because they put up slightly above average scores.

(Ghosthree3) #54

Triggerbots would probably be picked up tbh. Depending on how deep the stat analysis goes it could perhaps pick up consistently inhumanly low reaction times between shots fired and crosshair passing over body.

(robustWonder) #55

[quote=“PurpleNurple;45936”]Let’s get a couple things clear here. Fairfight isn’t usually set to only detect blatant cheaters. It’s usually set to a point where it tries to detect closet cheaters meaning their settings could by some chance be replicated by people who twitch shoot or have a series of insanely lucky shots. Fairfight when calibrated to look for closets is no where near set to inhuman settings so let’s get that BS out of your heads. If you have no idea how the anti cheat actually works don’t open your mouth and spread lies to other people. Fairfight is the malware bytes of anti cheat. It works to an extent and should not be relied on to rid the game of cheaters.

The only way i’d ever approve of FF is if it’s set to only ban blatants and leave actual anti cheat to find closet cheaters. I’m not going to argue with anyone about this so don’t bother. This is just to educate the people who were already persuaded into thinking it’s a solution to the cheating problem. The ones that think I’m secretly some cheater butthurt about getting “caught” can continue to live their sheltered lives in ignorance.[/quote]

You were caught cheating and banned. You are doing exactly what people on cheat forums conspire to do, spread misinformation and fear about an anti-cheat program that can not be easily bypassed.

Anyone doing 5 minutes of research about FF can tell you that it is based on long term statistics and unless you were one of the people banned manually by a developers for harassment in APB (like Tiggs does to stream snipers not in missions against the streamer) you were flat out cheating when banned.

(robustWonder) #56

[quote=“Harlot;46216”]I would much rather an anti-cheat that goes after people running programs than checks for stats. I just played against a guy who was blatantly hacking but still only compiled a 36/15 score. This probably wouldn’t be tagged under FF.

My whole team agreed it was fucky. He domed me 3 shots in a row with a revolver at about 50 yards while I was sprinting. In duels, he straight up ignored aim punch and had perfect accuracy and he prefired coming around corners. He would snap turn 180 degrees and instantly be headshotting you. He just had god awful positioning and often walked into a 2 vs 1, although he’d usually pick up a kill before dying. He also struggled with Bushwhacker turrets.

Fair Fight isn’t bad, but I’ve heard a lot of people knock it. Triggerbotting is getting big and would be an easy way around FF. It’s a huge advantage, but you don’t get the gaudy scores or look like a 360spinbot while using it.[/quote]

It doesn’t look at only K/D ratio.

Read this post about how to try and bypass FF.

https://storify.com/kozmok/how-to-hack-online-games-using-fairfight-anticheat

This may not be 100% accurate but it can show you how cheaters play different than normal players and the kind of stats that FF looks at then flags cheaters.

I don’t think FF will ban you for only gaining 1 flag, I think you have to hit multiple flags consistently to be banned.

(Ghosthree3) #57

I totally believe FF won’t ban off a lucky game, or even 10. What about the players that do really well, every game bar a couple? Do we know how these players are safe or is it classified because all ACs are.

(Harlot) #58

You know, I was previously against FF, but if it’ll get triggerbotters too, fuck it. It’s better than nothing.

(robustWonder) #59

You know, I was previously against FF, but if it’ll get triggerbotters too, fuck it. It’s better than nothing.
[/quote]

The only people I have seen cheating and bypass FF for a while are people who toggle their triggerbot/aimbot.

I was against a max rank that people respected as a long term APB player. My team mate and I caught him hanging out of a car window and started shooting at him.

Suddenly he snapped to me when I hit him, instantly snapped to my team mate who started shooting, then snapped back to me and did this a couple more times in less than a second. I think he realized what he did because he suddenly started missing every shot and died. The rest of the game he played like complete crap running into our shots while shooting the sky and crap to try and throw off his stats.

(triteTongs) #60

[quote=“robustWonder;46269”]

The only people I have seen cheating and bypass FF for a while are people who toggle their triggerbot/aimbot…[/quote]
So that’s what I’m worried of.

http://www.titanfall.com/news/we-hate-cheaters-just-as-much-as-you-do

“We will be continuing to tweak the algorithm over time to catch more cheaters.”
In otherwords, lower the threshold.

But based on your article a few posts up, I can only see FF being used for very specific things (nospread, snapping, Aim Mouvement per frame, Ranges on kills, etc)

But FF can also ban from multiple headshots. But newsflash… Dirty Bomb is all about those headshots.

So what if you are a sniper? I’ve seen amazing snipers in Dirty Bomb. Even amazing Driess AR users. No doubt they’d get banned even if they were legit. From what I gathered from Fairfight, I’m guessing all it takes is to collect enough flags of great plays to get banned.

Killed a team of 6 players because they were all AFK loading in? Flagged.
Lagged out then warped across the map? Flagged.

And what about this?

  • Tracking key you press (Example: If you keep spamming Insert while in-game, associated to cheat)

How does it decypher if that’s just spamming your in-game MUMBLE/TEAMSPEAK key?

If this was enabled in a game like CSGO, how many legit players would be banned because of it? I just don’t see how all the features of FF could be used in a game like dirty bomb.
Dirty Bomb trying to be pretty competitive game. Something like FF could kill it if they tweak the algorithm wrong. That’s just my fear. I’d rather have something that bans with 100% certainty for a competitive game.

But I trust the devs to find a solution. Even if they use FF, I trust that they will do plenty of tests with the best dirty bomb players and keep a very close eye on the data before setting it to ‘automatic ban’.