I like the idea of one single objective class. In context of character specialists it would really help to have such a defined role for the engineer, it means you get to balance all the abilities around that function.
Likewise, if other classes do get specific main objectives for themselves, then suddenly all abilities need to take that into account, this greatly lowers the scope for potential specialisms.
[QUOTE=tokamak;462490]I like the idea of one single objective class. In context of character specialists it would really help to have such a defined role for the engineer, it means you get to balance all the abilities around that function.
Likewise, if other classes do get specific main objectives for themselves, then suddenly all abilities need to take that into account, this greatly lowers the scope for potential specialisms.[/QUOTE]
You mean like different Engineer characters having different rates at which they complete objectives? For example (fictionous character names): Martha’s really good at planting C4 but does rather poorly at repairing stuff and hacking whilst some other character: Bertha is more middle of the road, he can do all objectives equally well but none of them exceptionally etc.
This.
As we stated prior to the update, this is the start of testing the change. Step one involves the class-agnostic changes and a few other tweaks, then we get feedback, then we tweak proficiency and character abilities, then we test again.
It’s good to get this early feedback but please bear with us whilst we test this stuff before casting the ‘final’ stone at this change.
[QUOTE=Anti;462495]This.
As we stated prior to the update, this is the start of testing the change. Step one involves the class-agnostic changes and a few other tweaks, then we get feedback, then we tweak proficiency and character abilities, then we test again.
It’s good to get this early feedback but please bear with us whilst we test this stuff before casting the ‘final’ stone at this change.[/QUOTE]
This poll is NOT!!! too early. It’s asking for our opinion right now, Anti. We are allowed to state our opinion on the current state of the game, right? This is EXACTLY what this poll is asking us to do. Take this information and process it so that you guys can create a game that people want to play. See my post in the VIP section for more information.
This is getting beyond frustrating, I’m sorry to say.
Seems a lot of people didn’t want it in the first place. It’s a test that wasn’t asked for, are you more or less saying “it’s happening whether you like it or not” and people would be as well saving their breaths and dealing with it regardless of how many speak out? I’m just curious is all, no point wasting time posting if it’s not gonna make a difference.
meanwhile i think NOTHING what we from the community were saying all the time wasnt considered.
ive got this feeling for a long time, SD is doing what THEY want, and if they do what they want, you know whats going to happen, (brink,… cough)
for me it seems like we are just here to support SD with money, no matter what we are saying, SD will do the thing on their own…
im just disappointed…
seems to me like SD are testing whether or not ppl will actually play as engineers etc. when there is no objective bias.
and the answer kinda looks like “No” from where i’m standing. maybe i’m standing in the wrong spot. could be.
i don’t think you can easily convince someone to buy custom skins for a character whose only redeeming quality (apart from good looks) is outstanding repair/disarm proficiency.
[QUOTE=zeroooo;462511]meanwhile i think NOTHING what we from the community were saying all the time wasnt considered.
ive got this feeling for a long time, SD is doing what THEY want, and if they do what they want, you know whats going to happen, (brink,… cough)
for me it seems like we are just here to support SD with money, no matter what we are saying, SD will do the thing on their own…
im just disappointed…[/QUOTE]
The only thing SD somehow considered is/was the extrem changes. Some, me included, complained that we dont test any extrem things/settings to figure out some new stuff which could be part in DB. So, somehow I’m happy with the last update because we actually got the chance to test something completely new for SD games. It would be a shame, if SD wouldnt take this opportunity to test settings under real conditions (pub play like in a finished game). They get feedback at once, they can adjust stuff and when it’s not working as planned, they know, ok, wrong direction and can test other stuff.
What disappoints me a bit is the weak communication with us. Overall I have the feeling, they are sitting in the office, think about stuff and implement this. Then they look at echo to figure out if its working as intended but dont listen to our feedback. Thats what I think and feel, maybe someone else sees this completly different.
I think SD should’ve shut down the Alpha for a couple of months, done the classless objective thing but with all the specialisation they intend to add to balance it, then asked us to test it. At the moment we’re being asked to test drive a car before the wheels have been fitted, and unsurprisingly we’re not too impressed.
At the end of the day though there is still a fundamental issue here.
If classless objectives stay, the game is not “in the spirit of ET” or any previous game in the genre. I suspect the reason most of us are here rather than playing Squad Rush in BF3 (for example), a rather fun classless objective game mode of an otherwise less than inspiring game, is because we want / appreciate / prefer to play a game that is “in the spirit of ET”. Class specific objectives is the No.1 thing that defines the previous games most of us here come from. As someone mentioned above, classless is akin to CS with aliens and laser guns, it’s just not right.
Or at least, it’s not right for this player base and whatever’s left of the ET / ET:QW scene. If SD persist with these changes I fear they need to be ready to see a large chunk of Alpha testers fade away, and be prepared to bring a whole load more people in, preferably people from a non-ET background (because surprisingly there are gazillions of them, and they don’t have the same hang-ups about which class can do what that we do).
[QUOTE=Anti;462495]This.
As we stated prior to the update, this is the start of testing the change. Step one involves the class-agnostic changes and a few other tweaks, then we get feedback, then we tweak proficiency and character abilities, then we test again.
It’s good to get this early feedback but please bear with us whilst we test this stuff before casting the ‘final’ stone at this change.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn’t it have been better to first implement everything in first before to let us test it? What is the reason for releasing the patch like this knowing well beforehand that it (might) only work with the proficiency and character abilities more in place? Is their any valuable data you gain from the current build that people are playing which are neccecary for the next steps?
[QUOTE=ImageOmega;462355]What is Dirty Bomb doing to stay true to the Class-based Objective FPS? It is completely going away from all of that… That is sad to me as a gamer, a supporter, and a tester.
At what point do we say, you know what? Let’s go back to what made games great and keep things simple. I get the need for innovation and appealing to the masses, but, it starts with the core like MOBA’s start with their core.[/QUOTE]
These words resonate with me…
I haven’t played the patch and I haven’t been able to log many hours in-game (hardly finding servers with people sub 400 ping) but the theory of all this is disappointing to me.
But looking at this game I know it’s going to be about accessibility and money. And that’s fine.
For us its about RTCW, ET, etc… but it probably goes back to team fortress 1. Class based obj’s etc. Games like BF, COD “stole” more and more elements from our beloved games and found success each time… they eased the communities into it i guess.
The learning curve for our gameplay can be steep.
I just remember the barely filled servers when RTCW and ET started to die. Do we want a dumbed down game with full servers or hardcore obj-based purity with a tiny community?
The market is so much more competitive now too…
What a headache.
Question; Do classesless objs in DB work?
Answer; Yes.
Question; Do I find classless objs add more fun and strategy?
Answer; No. Well, at least not yet.
Agreed.
I question why SD are trying to fix something that wasn’t broken to begin with. I really hope that the proficiencies can lean it back towards solo objectives.
I have two modes when playing:
OBJECTIVE MODE ON
and
OBJECTIVE MODE OFF (SUPPORT MODE ON)
now I play TDM MODE ON 
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;462556]Question; Do classesless objs in DB work?
Answer; Yes.
Question; Do I find classless objs add more fun and strategy?
Answer; No. Well, at least not yet.[/QUOTE]
Exactly this.
The amount of drama in some of the complaints makes me think that those people haven’t played since the patch.
[QUOTE=Anti;462495]This.
As we stated prior to the update, this is the start of testing the change. Step one involves the class-agnostic changes and a few other tweaks, then we get feedback, then we tweak proficiency and character abilities, then we test again.
It’s good to get this early feedback but please bear with us whilst we test this stuff before casting the ‘final’ stone at this change.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry but after last patch, I’m starting to think - you don’t really understand what to do with your own creation. There is no logic in removing class system. This kind of changes must be made before Alpha. For a game without a class objectives must be another type of maps, sum thing like BF Rush maps, not a ET maps like a London Bridge.
…or i dont know
[QUOTE=Kinjal;462567]I’m sorry but after last patch, I’m starting to think - you don’t really understand what to do with your own creation. There is no logic in removing class system. This kind of changes must be made before Alpha. For a game without a class objectives must be another type of maps, sum thing like BF Rush maps, not a ET maps like a London Bridge.
…or i dont know[/QUOTE]
In Alpha a lot still can change; A LOT. Alpha usually means the game is in a playable state but gameplay still in flux. In Beta it’s unusual to have huge changes in beta (it happens but is a lot rarer) .
You absolutely right, in a normal production cycle, developer can make a fundamental changes of gameplay (like removing class objectives) in alpha. But man, after 8+ months of changing and balancing maps for a class system (ET system) removing that system and go for BF style objective gameplay?
For me, it looks like tdm game with objs now. I understand, SD probably want make more casual game than ET of ETQW, but im afraid it will be another casual f2p FPS game :<
Let’s wait first what the second part of the update (class abilities/proffefficieny) will do. It might lead to similar gameplay before the changes but with the flexibilty of making the characters more important (what SD is aiming at)