After I played CoD:MW2 some hopes I have...

[tokamak]

Making the shooting and control mechanics in Brink akin to L4D would be a true nightmare scenario. And it’s utterly retarded to say that iron sights slow down the game, unless you think TF2 is more fast paced than Quake Wars of course…

[stealth6]

iron sights do slow down a game.
you have to zoom in before you shoot or your spray all over the place, so you loose a few seconds.
also some people start walking around houses with iron sights on which takes longer compared to running around and when you see somebody turn and shoot.

I prefer more the Quake gameplay where you got the twitch movements, iron sights prevent this and thus slow down the gameplay.

Also it also invites camping, since if you wait in a corner for smebody to pass with ironsights on, by the time they discover you and can react they die.

anyway TF2 is a nice gameplay for the theme it’s set in, but still to slow for my taste. But better then cod

but L4D is defintely not my cup of tea, so i didn’t buy the second, it’s utterly boring with a good team.
Can be fun in the 4v4 mode, but again with a good team still boring.

If I am being open minded I wouldn’t say iron sights are absolutely rubbish, but how they’ve been uused so far doesn’t suit my taste, but maybe BRINK can do it better?

[zXSwordXz]

I second that…I hate IS in game. It take away the fun run N gun style of hopping to avoid bullet while still firing your weapon. But the gaming industry has change tremendously and I doubt developers will change back to only crosshair.

[tokamak]

Yes, I don’t think they want to go back to simplified dumbed-down mechanics anymore.

[Dormamu]

In a VR room, on a curved monitor or in a Airsoft/paintball match the IS will not be a problem, but on a 19-21" monitor it is (for me).
From my point of view, using IS is like closing one eye. The brain, whether under stress or not, simply functions better with both eyes open.
Using IS cuts your view of the field of combat in half, of your enemies and your friendlies… This also dilates your closed eye pupil into night/dark vision mode. Switching IS on/off, causes re-adjustment. the older you are, the longer the re-adjustment takes.
The constant ISon/ISoff + the fov90/fov115 + sens1/sens 2.5 is making me lose the central-peripheral awareness (awareness of central details of a target and the peripheral space around the target) and playing COD is getting me locked into “tunnel vision” for extended periods of time. IS inhibits these skills who are all are best achieved with both eyes open (IS off) for me: Visual acuity, Visualization, Speed of recognition time, Eye focusing flexibility, Fixation ability, Peripheral vision and peripheral vision awareness.
In a tactical situation or if we want to imitate real action, slow means dead and when using a shotgun you need to keep both eyes open; rifle one eye; tactical rifle both eyes; hand gun both eyes for close, the dominant eye for the rest. And when we put that we will have vertical fighting, i’m pretty sure that i will use crouch+shoot rather than IS. Some people love IS some don’t, is not like the end of the world, and knowing that Brink will let you play with or without IS… make my post pointless…

[zXSwordXz]

Yes, I don’t think they want to go back to simplified dumbed-down mechanics anymore.

I wouldn’t say dumbed down because crosshair brings a unique gameplay from IS. IS give you a more precision shooting but at the same time it take away the run & gun style which was alot of fun for some gamers. Like stealth6 said, IS it promote camping because you stand a better chance of killing someone if you hide and have your IS ready.

[tokamak]

Exactly, people who are able to anticipate the situation will have an advantage over those who charge in. However, switching to IS in really close shoot-outs would be a mistake and lead to victorious run’n gunners.

[stealth6]

Yes, I don’t think they want to go back to simplified dumbed-down mechanics anymore.

From this comment it would appear it is you not I that is being open minded.

But in the vid in the other topic, there was already a corsshair present, and it had an odd shape compared to the current standard of plus shaped crosshair.
So now just have to hope that the gun still has some accuracy from the hip as they call it.

And it’s utterly retarded to say that iron sights slow down the game, unless you think TF2 is more fast paced than Quake Wars of course…

Exactly, people who are able to anticipate the situation will have an advantage over those who charge in. However, switching to IS in really close shoot-outs would be a mistake and lead to victorious run’n gunners.

now you are contradicting your own words, it does slow down so this means your a retard? :stroggtapir:

Anyway camping is not anticipating, I think even a zombie can wait in a corner until somebody comes and shoot them hehe. Camping is not the worst thing since it’s a good defensive tactic, but you have to be able to counter it somehow.

in cod this is pretty hard, you could try throwing grenades in common camping spots, but you would probably quickly run out of grenades. And let’s face it if you run in to a camper the chances that he will beat you are in his advantage:
-He is ready to shoot
-He will have higher acc thanks to IS
-As soon as he shoots you your screen is covered in blood so you can only hope for the best

Now let’s go to a ‘dumbed-down’ example: W:ET here if you encounter a camper you still have a chance to kill them, because they can’t kill you in 2 shots you can just jump back reevaluate the situation and then jump back and give him 3 headshot, or start timing a grenade.

Sure in this situation there is less ‘anticipation’ but to be honest anticipation is boring lol, most people just like to improvise. and it even gives less experience gamers or casual gamers a chance.
Does this mean that you can’t use anticipation… No but it just gives a better chance to the victim.

(btw this is trailing off from IS since I think we got that point down now, let’s move on :D)

EDIT: http://g4tv.com/videos/43021/Exclusive-Brink-Preview/

looks like IS are in but the gameplay looks pretty sweet from what you see there, and there was still some hip shooting, so i hope they didn’t entirely kill the acc on the hip shooting.
Cool vid though!

[aimology]

[QUOTE=stealth6;202394]iron sights do slow down a game.
you have to zoom in before you shoot or your spray all over the place, so you loose a few seconds.
also some people start walking around houses with iron sights on which takes longer compared to running around and when you see somebody turn and shoot.

I prefer more the Quake gameplay where you got the twitch movements, iron sights prevent this and thus slow down the gameplay.

Also it also invites camping, since if you wait in a corner for smebody to pass with ironsights on, by the time they discover you and can react they die.

anyway TF2 is a nice gameplay for the theme it’s set in, but still to slow for my taste. But better then cod

but L4D is defintely not my cup of tea, so i didn’t buy the second, it’s utterly boring with a good team.
Can be fun in the 4v4 mode, but again with a good team still boring.

If I am being open minded I wouldn’t say iron sights are absolutely rubbish, but how they’ve been uused so far doesn’t suit my taste, but maybe BRINK can do it better?[/QUOTE]

Agreed on the majority

[aimology]

Most of what you say is true aimology but I guess what DarkangelUK meant was that Infinity Ward will never realize they failed for the PC and e-sport community because of those high numbers of players

Yes, you’re a smart one Thanks.
I was going to correct alot of things he said, but he is simple minded and cant think outside of the box. Not going to try.

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=stealth6;202407]From this comment it would appear it is you not I that is being open minded.
now you are contradicting your own words, it does slow down so this means your a retard? :stroggtapir:

Anyway camping is not anticipating, I think even a zombie can wait in a corner until somebody comes and shoot them hehe. Camping is not the worst thing since it’s a good defensive tactic, but you have to be able to counter it somehow.

in cod this is pretty hard, you could try throwing grenades in common camping spots, but you would probably quickly run out of grenades. And let’s face it if you run in to a camper the chances that he will beat you are in his advantage:
-He is ready to shoot
-He will have higher acc thanks to IS
-As soon as he shoots you your screen is covered in blood so you can only hope for the best

Now let’s go to a ‘dumbed-down’ example: W:ET here if you encounter a camper you still have a chance to kill them, because they can’t kill you in 2 shots you can just jump back reevaluate the situation and then jump back and give him 3 headshot, or start timing a grenade.

Sure in this situation there is less ‘anticipation’ but to be honest anticipation is boring lol, most people just like to improvise. and it even gives less experience gamers or casual gamers a chance.
Does this mean that you can’t use anticipation… No but it just gives a better chance to the victim.

(btw this is trailing off from IS since I think we got that point down now, let’s move on :D)

EDIT: http://g4tv.com/videos/43021/Exclusive-Brink-Preview/

looks like IS are in but the gameplay looks pretty sweet from what you see there, and there was still some hip shooting, so i hope they didn’t entirely kill the acc on the hip shooting.
Cool vid though![/QUOTE]

First of all, I didn’t call anyone close minded.

Secondly, you forget that we’re talking about objective driven games, with defenders and attackers. Camping is a part of this, you can approach ‘hot zones’ by charging in like a mad man or you can approach it with more care. If there were no gun sights or other ways to reduce spread, the only valid option would be to just charge in. With anticipation I mean thinking in longer periods and adjusting instantly when necessary. That’s what makes games like ET so great, it rewards people who have a plan.

Which brings me to the third point. We’re not talking about making hip-shooting invalid. Both IS and HS (and crouching) all have their merits in specific situations. It’s up to you to judge the situation right and act accordingly. There shouldn’t be a magic bullet for everything.

[Brandmon]

I think the game should include Iron Sights but also make a weapon useful to fire without and in the end brink should be a game of it’s own. It should not try to be a Quake 3 Arena. Not should it try to be Call of Duty. If you want a Quake style game, there is Quake Live and if you want a Call of Duty type of game, there is a whole series. The fact one must keep in mind when playing a new game is to never expect the old and welcome any changes to the gameplay and master the game’s mechanics. Many just quit playing a new game after a while just because they are unwilling to get used to it, which is why you have many people playing old games. A somewhat negative mentality imo.

[tokamak]

There’s nothing wrong with tried and tested formulas though, I really like what Quake Wars did with the combat mechanics. Quite elegant and could be improved by adding different spread behaviours for the guns.

[DarkangelUK]

[QUOTE=aimology;202429]Yes, you’re a smart one Thanks.
I was going to correct alot of things he said, but he is simple minded and cant think outside of the box. Not going to try. :)[/QUOTE]

I get the feeling you were captain of the failboat that shouted about MW2 being total fail on the PC… then went out and bought it on day of release and thanked IW for their fail with your hard earned money, giving them reason to repeat their efforts again for the next release.

Hypocrites, can’t live with them… can’t educate them. Btw my player count post was backed up with this reply. Of course that would require lateral thinking… and more than likely you read my 1st post that was in the context of apparent ‘fail’ from the OP (even though there’s several pages) and came back with a complete nonsensical bull excrement of a reply… GO GO C.E.O.!! I always look forward to seeing what those 2 braincells can derive next… crack on my son!

[badman]

Guys, no more fighting. If you can’t discuss things normally, please leave this thread alone entirely.

[RoryGreen]

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;202484]I get the feeling you were captain of the failboat that shouted about MW2 being total fail on the PC… then went out and bought it on day of release and thanked IW for their fail with your hard earned money, giving them reason to repeat their efforts again for the next release.

Hypocrites, can’t live with them… can’t educate them. Btw my player count post was backed up with this reply. Of course that would require lateral thinking… and more than likely you read my 1st post that was in the context of apparent ‘fail’ from the OP (even though there’s several pages) and came back with a complete nonsensical bull excrement of a reply… GO GO C.E.O.!! I always look forward to seeing what those 2 braincells can derive next… crack on my son![/QUOTE]

Sorry, I have no idea what this squabble is about, but you do have to admit, DarkangelUK is really good at arguing.

Back to the topic now?

[H0neyBe4r]

Yes, I don’t think they want to go back to simplified dumbed-down mechanics anymore.

“Go back”? Thats exactly where they moved to with IS, spray & pray, one button - knife - kills, high weapon damage, no shooting while sprinting, etc.

[tokamak]

I like how you let IS follow straight from spray & pray. That’s the entire point. Without taking the time for your shots your guns are supposed to be inaccurate. And then most shooters, including COD and such are still on the ‘easy’ side compared to real life.

Shooting weapons isn’t easy, and games that pick up on this have found a way to translate this into great gameplay.

Without spread, running and shooting is just always the best mode there is. You don’t need to think or adapt to different situations, nope, just always run’n gun. That’s dumbed-down gameplay. These days, sprinting and shooting is still valid, but only in specific situations, you can’t apply it to everything anymore.

[Ragoo]

I like how you let IS follow straight from spray & pray. That’s the entire point. Without taking the time for your shots your guns are supposed to be inaccurate.

Completely disagree. This is exactly what I think is so bad about the campy, slow style of games like CoD and CS. It becomes more important to set up for the perfect shot than aim and move properly.
And why should no spread lead to dumbed-down gameplay? It just rewards people who know how to aim and move right.
I want to run full speed around a corner and give this damn campern00b a headshot as soon as I see him. I don’t want to move slowly because my spread is messed up when I run or jump and I don’t want to be forced to use IS at mid range and stop moving completely (I don’t hate IS and I think they are nice for long range).
I wouldn’t call the CoD style dumbed down, it’s just waaay more about tactical slow play.

Fortunately Rahdo already said that the spread in BRINK will be tighter than that of the usual shooter these days

[tokamak]

COD is even catering to the rungunners by handing out hip shooter perks.

But fine, we already agree that it IS more tactical dan 0% spread sprint games. I think it just fits objective driven games with defenders and attackers way more.