Advanced Movement: walljumping/running/ledge-grab

(Smooth) #41

Any advanced movement we add must be easily understandable (hard to master) and have a believable context within the world.

All of these poll options have that, so it’s a case of if they would be beneficial to gameplay or not. I personally think wall-jumping could work fairly well with the speed and fluidity we’re aiming for :slight_smile:

I don’t think we’re ruling out a bunny-hopping, strafe-jumping character with crazy rocket-blade boots, but honestly it’s not something that makes sense with every day gear.

(iwound) #42

… and feel fluid and not get stuck in an animation or to an object.

(chippy) #43

One thing I think could fit in quite well is the double jump. Using Quake 2 as a reference, it’s in 3 and possibly 1 as well, when you double tap jump twice fast enough over two boxes you do those “superjumps”. Boxes, benches, trashcans, signs etc. could have that feature. Obviously don’t make it a “superjump” just some nice subtle addition to the jump mechanic to maybe get into a window or up a ledge faster.

I would also love some sliding action. Down ledges, stairs, cars (if you’re on top of one) to get just a slight speed boost. And I’m not talking about the sliding thing in BRINK… Don’t bother with twisting and bending my screen, holding my gun in one hand and all that. Just make the animation seen from other players in a crouched and/or slightly leaned back fashion. If you time it correctly and jump of just before the end maybe you get a 1-2 second speed boost from that as well?

(acQu) #44

[QUOTE=Smooth;467808]Any advanced movement we add must be easily understandable (hard to master) and have a believable context within the world.

All of these poll options have that, so it’s a case of if they would be beneficial to gameplay or not. I personally think wall-jumping could work fairly well with the speed and fluidity we’re aiming for :slight_smile:

I don’t think we’re ruling out a bunny-hopping, strafe-jumping character with crazy rocket-blade boots, but honestly it’s not something that makes sense with every day gear.[/QUOTE]

Yay ^^ I think so too. Maybe circular jumps make sense too, i think it is understandable :slight_smile: It is more of a reduced but understandable aspect of strafe-jump i personally would very much like to see, since it is just damn sexy to watch and also intuitive at a 2nd look.

I am still not sure about sliding. Me personally would like to see it. The question is if sliding should allow take down of enemy. Imo yes, it should, but you should be able to dodge it with a jump. Then sliding would be a valuable close combat skill.

(DarkangelUK) #45

I don’t really care for sliding personally, the knockdown system in Brink felt clunky and awkward also.

(acQu) #46

There can be this: slide and chaining a slide-kick. Bad idea i know, but it would make up for a trade-off. Imagine a fight which is very close. The enemy just slides you down, since he is so near. No chance to react. So you should be able to doge in that situation, where everything happens really up-close and fast, hence you add a slight delay, so that you have time to react. Until the player uses the slide-kick you have plenty of time. Maybe he does not use though ^^. But if he does, he will be stuck in animation. Yes, many don’t like stuck in animation, just an idea though, maybe sliding has too many drawbacks :frowning:

(acutepuppy) #47

[QUOTE=Smooth;467808]Any advanced movement we add must be easily understandable (hard to master) and have a believable context within the world.

All of these poll options have that, so it’s a case of if they would be beneficial to gameplay or not. I personally think wall-jumping could work fairly well with the speed and fluidity we’re aiming for :slight_smile:

I don’t think we’re ruling out a bunny-hopping, strafe-jumping character with crazy rocket-blade boots, but honestly it’s not something that makes sense with every day gear.[/QUOTE]

This is a reason I really liked the Camden blockout phase, there was really clear geometry to follow a path, you could see the polygons where the hills meet the main path. It reminded me of some of the paths in Quake Wars. If there was acceleration for jumping off angles (like being able to hop over the left side of the Strogg wall in Valley), getting up over a couple of the ledges on the way to the first objective may have been plenty possible and saved a couple seconds.

I feel like rigid geometry is really forbidden in modern game design. Half-Life 2 did jumping puzzles very well, by keeping ledges with clear angles, Having that tell-tale angled terrain may be a little jarring, but perhaps building geometry or world objects (like a knocked down road sign, hoods of cars) could be implemented for these types of skill-jumps.

(Kendle) #48

That’s the thing though, it isn’t. You’re maybe trying to talk yourself into believing that it is because you want it so much but it just isn’t. Watch the long-jumping event at an athletics meeting, they don’t run in a circular trajectory and then twist from side to side in mid-air to go further.

Strafe-jumping / circle-jumping just does not make sense in the physical world, and the key presses required to execute it can’t be gleaned from watching someone else do it in 3rd person. As such it simply does not have the believable context SD are demanding any advanced movement in XT must have. We can try and persuade them that their requirement for believability is flawed, and I would love to be able to do that, but we can’t argue strafe-jumping is believable.

So once again we’re back to square one: XT consists of pressing +forward and occasionally +jump, and little else. Wall-jumping, and sliding and ledge climbing for that matter, are believable, and intuitive, and the keys you press to do them are obvious, and as such they meet SD’s requirements. Instead of shooting down these ideas we should be encouraging them, otherwise we’ll never have anything other than +forward / +jump. :frowning:

(attack) #49

[QUOTE=Kendle;467842]That’s the thing though, it isn’t. You’re maybe trying to talk yourself into believing that it is because you want it so much but it just isn’t. Watch the long-jumping event at an athletics meeting, they don’t run in a circular trajectory and then twist from side to side in mid-air to go further.

Strafe-jumping / circle-jumping just does not make sense in the physical world, and the key presses required to execute it can’t be gleaned from watching someone else do it in 3rd person. As such it simply does not have the believable context SD are demanding any advanced movement in XT must have. We can try and persuade them that their requirement for believability is flawed, and I would love to be able to do that, but we can’t argue strafe-jumping is believable.

So once again we’re back to square one: XT consists of pressing +forward and occasionally +jump, and little else. Wall-jumping, and sliding and ledge climbing for that matter, are believable, and intuitive, and the keys you press to do them are obvious, and as such they meet SD’s requirements. Instead of shooting down these ideas we should be encouraging them, otherwise we’ll never have anything other than +forward / +jump. :([/QUOTE]

agree mostly.
but slide i havent like in the way brink did. it should be a possibility to slide under smth ,but not to kick the legs away or shoot at the same time.

(stealth6) #50

Could somebody explain how to combine making movement skillful and at the same time make it obvious how it’s done? Seems to be mutually exclusive imo.

I understand that something like slide, walljump or ledge grab is more intuitive than strafejumping, but if there is any kind of skill involved bother are going to require external sources or tooltips to help you master them quickly.

So it boils down to the skillceilling, strafejumping can easily take a few months to master while ledge, slide & walljumping will probably only take a few weeks. While writing this post I realize that I wouldn’t be opposed to either system, but I would prefer to see strafejumping since it’s a SD title and I can’t expect to see that from any other dev.

As for this topic it’s already been discussed to death and I think we can expect to see some form of advanced movement in the game. It’s also on the roadmap, so we’ll just have to wait and see what SD decides in the end.

EDIT: For the people that haven’t seen all the previous topics and are screaming for strafejumping definitely read MrEd’s post as Kendle aready said:
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35621-DB-Locomotion-Design-Motivations

(zeroooo) #51

+1 For strafe jumping

**** the rest -_-

(Pytox) #52

why no double jump lol :smiley: no i dont like double jump but I liked the ledge grabbing in crysis though, it made more fast pace and more vertical

(attack) #53

[QUOTE=stealth6;467852]Could somebody explain how to combine making movement skillful and at the same time make it obvious how it’s done? Seems to be mutually exclusive imo.

I understand that something like slide, walljump or ledge grab is more intuitive than strafejumping, but if there is any kind of skill involved bother are going to require external sources or tooltips to help you master them quickly.

So it boils down to the skillceilling, strafejumping can easily take a few months to master while ledge, slide & walljumping will probably only take a few weeks. While writing this post I realize that I wouldn’t be opposed to either system, but I would prefer to see strafejumping since it’s a SD title and I can’t expect to see that from any other dev.

As for this topic it’s already been discussed to death and I think we can expect to see some form of advanced movement in the game. It’s also on the roadmap, so we’ll just have to wait and see what SD decides in the end.

EDIT: For the people that haven’t seen all the previous topics and are screaming for strafejumping definitely read MrEd’s post as Kendle aready said:
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35621-DB-Locomotion-Design-Motivations[/QUOTE]

i extremly doubt that strafejump was proposed in rtcw and et .it was a part of the engine.

(stealth6) #54

While I don’t understand what that has to do with my comment, the fact that it was never patched means something.

(attack) #55

becaus you sayed its an SD title

(Dragonji) #56

I can only say that sliding is really annoying in Warface. Never liked it myself.

(tacocat) #57

crouch slide was pretty cool back in q4 actually.

(DarkangelUK) #58

It was left in on purpose

(Tankey) #59

Like some of said before, it was indeed part of the engine. It was not added on purpose, it actually was a bug. But seen the fact that it both required some kill to use it and because it was greatly accepted within the competitive plays it’s decided to let it as it is. (which was a great decision IMO, see how many strafeplayers are still playing, and how many have played it. This video is a great example of a strafe/tricky jump, liked it as one of the best. He outruns his teammates and enemies, well folks, THAT is skill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFqM9UGkuwE&hd=1)

(DarkangelUK) #60

I think we need to clarify that even though it may have been a ‘bug’, it could have been removed at any time. SD confirmed that if they wanted to remove it they could have, same goes for any other game. I’d rather call it an unintentional feature than a missed bug.