A defense of XP...

(NOP) #41

I’ve been looking at people’s posts in this forum(not just this thread) about what they don’t like about this game and most of the time their solution to the problem involves some kind of an extreme such as there should be no XP system in the game or there should be no mortars in the game or panzers or air strikes or artillery and so on and so forth. The main point that they make is that people abuse the various features of the game and therefore these features should be disabled. So basically they’re trying to CHANGE THE GAME BEACUSE THEY DON’T LIKE HOW PEOPLE PLAY IT. Well that’s not right. I like the XP system in the game and I like all the other features of the game and I don’t think we should all be punished and reduced to playing some kind of arena type game where we are all soldiers with SMGs just because some pople don’t want to play the game right, or better yet don’t want to play it the way you think it’s right. No matter what multiplayer game you play there’s always someone that’s gonna play like shit and that’s something you have to accept because it comes with multiplayer territory. In stead of trying to change the game to get rid of these people, try changing the people you play with to accomodate the way you want to play the game.That way everone is happy. Taking extreme views suchs as do away with all XP or get rid of all explosive weapons are not good solutions to problems with the way people play the game.

In answer to a question posted somewhere in the previous posts about what the XP system adds to the game I have to say this. What does the panzer add to the game? what does having grenades and a knife in addition to your SMG add to the game? The answer is diversity , different gameplays, more strategy etc etc. The XP system adds a lot of diversity to the game, a lot more gameplay and in general just plain old more stuff to do. And I for one like that. Ofcourse we could get rid of it just like we could get rid of a lot of other features in the game, but that would not make the game better, it would just make it poor and look more and more like the millions of other shooters out there.
So in conclusion the solution to your problems is FIND SOME PEOPLE THAT YOU LIKE AND STICK WITH THEM.

(Computertech) #42

I remember this discussion in America’s Army. It has the same problem. The System really isn’t that flawed, but could be “improved”. The Xp is suppose to increase of how well you can perform your duty. A medic reviving and healing can increase of how good they can do their job. Hense the levels each class has.
To “improve it”, you would have maps marked with kill zones. Usually around the objective itself. Anything inside that kill zone get points, outside it, no points. Example: Axis engr planting mines by tank=points, but building truck barrier=no points unless tank is in court yard. Co-ops on fuel depot getting uni=very little points, but getting an engr into the fuel dump as a co-ops w/uni = a few points. Spawn areas=No points=No advance. Put more points on objectives and advancing the tank for example and far less on kills. AA has tried and is somewhat better than what it use to be. But there will always be ppl who don’t care. There will always be rambo medics and spawn killers with or without the xp.
One I like is Team leaders in AA. If you are near the team leader, you shoot better, doing rambo by yourself you shoot far worse.

(Gump) #43

As far as I’m concerned, the allied engineer that got mass xp by clearing choke points with rifle grenades and pushing the team forward deserves as much recognition as the one who planted the dyno. For that matter, the axis engineer who consistently blows everyone up with land mines trying to get to the objective does as well. You don’t hear the support crew that cleared the way to the objective, kept your ass alive, and guarded your dyno after you planted it whining for part of blowing up xp do you?

I think the xp system is fine. I don’t think there is a single game that I’ve played in where the top scoring players weren’t the best and most productive members of their respective teams. This is probably due to the fact that you get xp for helping the team: Killing the enemy (everyone), helping your pals (medics), building/destroying objectives (engie/ops). The lamers who stand back and pass out ammo or build useless stuff are always near the back. Even a half decent player knows you’ll end up with more xp out on the front lines helping the team. (I do admit, last night after hearing “Truck barrier destroyed” and “Truck repaired” for the 15th time I was about ready to go gib that engie myself)

The ONLY true case where the xp system isn’t fair is when someone is guarding the objective. It’s quite possible to spend 15 minutes in the vault room on gold rush after they break in with an MG42 and see little action. But how often does that happen?, not very often and not for the majority of the campaign, so suck it up and do your job!

(SJ_Frankenstein) #44

Agreed, but as I’ve written before:

I think everyone is in agreement that xp isn’t everything. But I do beleive that it is a good indicator of a persons abilities. If you don’t support your team and know your objectives, you are not going to accumulate xp points. At the end of the map, the k/d ratio is a good sign of a players aiming ability in a fire fight. I use the player stats and top accuricies menus all of the time throughout the game to see my progress as well as the other players.

(The_Jesus_Zeppelin) #45

am i the onl;y one that likes the xp system? i think its a cool aspect of the game to where as how well you play depends on what and if your rewarded things. and i know all ym friends thqat play this game really liek the xp system! :disgust:

(Englander) #46

The awards at the end are a load of crap the XP system within the game isnt unless as weve stated before u are out to exploit it by being a whore,the end board awards is a load of crap IMO thats why i dont even bother looking at it,it calculates who got most XP for that class wich as we all know is stupid because an whore can take the award but because it calculates it in this way isnt the XP systems fault so thats why I dont care about the end board awards…

(puubert) #47

In stead of trying to change the game to get rid of these people, try changing the people you play with to accomodate the way you want to play the game.

A lot easier said than done. I understand your point though, and ultimately you’re right. But no one is going to change the game, nor change how people play so this is all idealistic discussion. “In a perfect world” crap. I guess the problem is with the people. People suck.

Kendle, a covert stealing a uniform and a engy planting dyno are unique functions of each class, that roughly equate to each other. So they give each action about the same XP. I think that’s how they came up with it. Though, you should get 5XP if you kill the person, and only 2XP if you don’t.

(SJ_Frankenstein) #48

The awards at the end are a load of crap the XP system within the game isnt unless as weve stated before u are out to exploit it by being a whore,the end board awards is a load of crap IMO thats why i dont even bother looking at it,it calculates who got most XP for that class wich as we all know is stupid because an whore can take the award but because it calculates it in this way isnt the XP systems fault so thats why I dont care about the end board awards…[/quote]

I disagree. :drink: It reflects a feature in RtCW shrub mod and I think the awards and all are great! Although, I do agree that XP Whorage is for llamas. If you aren’t earning those awards by doing your job then you aren’t as good as you think you are. And I’m going to prove it to them next round with a little lead to their head. Yeah there are going to be lamers out there that will whore points but who cares. Let them, they’re gonna die anyway. It’s like cheaters, they only hurt themselves by cheating.

I like the way Splash Damage has put this game together, bottom line. Why would I even start to bitch about the game when it’s not the game but the llamas that corrupt it.

(Englander) #49

Dont know why u have quoted me I love the XP system ,& do u ever play Engie all iam saying is with the rewards there as been many times as Engie I have blown the major objectives (e.g:Oasis - Old city wall & both guns)and not got best Engie for it,so u can be as good as the mission lets u be and still not get the best award for that class, its nothing to do with thinking ur better than u are or how good u are its the fact that a guy on the Axis team might have had 25 land mine kills on Oasis & gained more XP than u as Engie through it,id probably say the medic is the only class what seems to get the reward right.TBH though I dont care about the end awards anyway I just like the XP system and like u say its the people what are at fault not the system wich I myself must have said 100 times on these forums.

If you like the XP sysytem or not the fact is Splash Damage arnt going to change it so unless Bani or Shrub are either play on servers were they have it disabled or dont play the game at all, its that simple.

(Kendle) #50

I was going to post another lengthy reply in this thread, specifically in regards to NOP’s post above where he seems to be linking the “anti-XP” contingent with the “anti-Panzer/Heavy weapons” brigade.

That’s a completely flawed argument. You’ll often see me criticise XP, but I’ve never, ever, complained about this weapon or that Class ruining the game. The 2 are not the same. The multiple Classes and weapons adds diversity to the game and are a good thing, XP does not and isn’t.

But I think I’ve made all my points, I’ll only end up repeating myself. XP gives individuals something to play for other than their team’s objective. That’s bad. XP isn’t a true reflection of skill or contribution to the team effort. That’s bad. The game can be played without it. That’s good.

I’ll stick to Stopwatch servers wherever possible and await the day XP is disabled by default in Clan games (which in turn will see it being disabled on public servers) and the rest of you can stick to your 6-map Campaign servers, amass huge amounts of XP, and kid yourself that you are true team players. :smiley:

(Kerunch) #51

I think you’re being a little unfair there Kendle in your last comment.I enjoy xp and the benefits it brings to the way I like to play.I dont enjoy six map campaigns as that Does exploit the way xp can be abused.I think its best to agree to disagree on the use of xp.I think I’ll move xp to the same area as politics and religion in my never discuss over a beer.Oh
Englander you got rid of your sig. ? :drink:

(Loffy) #52

Hi!
My question doesn’t really fit under the heading (“In defence of xp”) but I’ll ask. This thread is very active atm.
I play clan wars. We play just single maps stopwatch. Sometimes there is a full defence on a map, like Oasis. So, sometimes you get a little xp “on the fly”, even if you never play for xp during a clan war.
However, I sometimes wonder: can i get enough xp during a clan match (round) to get a significant advantage (in either class)?
In sum: Should I pay more attention to the accumulation of xp, during a clan match? If so, what are - in your experience as a clan player - the siginficant xp-levels in various classes? (I play engineer.)

// Loffy

PS. Here’s “my” clan’s homepage if just want to have a look at it:
http://arduis.enemy-territory.se/

(Kendle) #53

You’re right, apologies to anyone offended by that comment. Perhaps it does belong to the “religion / politics” kind of debate. :slight_smile:

(Kendle) #54

I’d say yes. For example, you’re on the defending team. The longer you sucessfully defend, the more XP you gain, and the better at defending you become. If the map is biased towards defense in the first place (which most are) the map becomes even more biased. Personally I think that’s just plain out-right wrong in a Clan match. The only thing that should make a difference are skill and strats, not the game’s built-in points system.

Absolutely not!!! Never take your “eye off the ball”, which is what you would be doing if you altered your tactics in any way, shape or form to gain additional XP.

(Loffy) #55

Absolutely not!!! Never take your “eye off the ball”, which is what you would be doing if you altered your tactics in any way, shape or form to gain additional XP.[/quote]

I figured so. I mean, it is very stressfull to play clan wars anyway. One momentary lapse of concentration (can you say that in english?) at the wrong time and you’re gone.
// L.

(Machine for to kill) #56

I love the xp system and I also totally agree with NOP’s comment. Why are you trying to convince people that xp is not good. I like XP and I have fun playing a game that uses this system. In the end that’s all that matters to me. You’re not talking here about some small modification such as taking out some of the artillery power of lvl3 FO, you’re talking about changing on of the key concepts of this game. It’s fine for you to like that but you shouldn’t be trying to push the rest of us to like it too. Your only hope for resolution is if someone makes a mod that uses no xp. Then you can play the game you want, though i doubt a lot of people would join those servers.

(sniser) #57

LOL? Key concepts to me are a.) all the things that were present in RTCW, ie. teamplay, meds and FO and engis doing their thing each, and b.) the things that were added in ET, like constructibles, vehicles, command map, new weapons etc. etc.

None of these have anything to do with XP. Also, some people use ETpro to fix their XP at a certain levels. They’re not playing some kind of completely different game. XP is not a key concept, it’s a thing on the side. ET works the same way with or without XP. Don’t believe me? Join a server where the XP is fixed and see for yourself.

This isn’t an argument for or against XP… but calling it a key concept is ridiculous.

(Kendle) #58

LOL? Key concepts to me are a.) all the things that were present in RTCW, ie. teamplay, meds and FO and engis doing their thing each, and b.) the things that were added in ET, like constructibles, vehicles, command map, new weapons etc. etc.

None of these have anything to do with XP. Also, some people use ETpro to fix their XP at a certain levels. They’re not playing some kind of completely different game. XP is not a key concept, it’s a thing on the side. ET works the same way with or without XP. Don’t believe me? Join a server where the XP is fixed and see for yourself.

This isn’t an argument for or against XP… but calling it a key concept is ridiculous.[/quote]
Quality post, can’t add anything to that. Perfect. :clap:

(SJ_Frankenstein) #59

Englander, didn’t mean to sound as if I were picking on you. Have a :beer: on me. :drink: My frustration stems from people arguing over something that doesn’t matter that much because it’s NOT why I play ET. And it’s not why I played RtCW.

Shout to sniser! :clap: Agreed!

(Machine for to kill) #60

again
…I really like the xp system and TO ME it is a key concept. If it was taken away I would probably stop playing the game as it would, at that point (TO ME) be no different than all the other multiplayer shooters out there.
again
just because you like or don’t like somthing about a game doesn’t mean that the game should be shaped to your liking…it is so ridiculously arrogant to think so. It is also extremely arrogant to think that your ideas are the good ones, and people who think differently are wrong

AGAIN
I LIKE XP. IF YOU DON’T, GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME.
Splash wanted to put an experience system in the game, and in my opinion it couldn’t have worked out better.

This debate is similar to the one about clans sucking. Only now I am the one saying that if you don’t like it shut the fuck up and go somewhere else.