3 core changes to Phantom, how do you like them?

(gg2ez) #61

I agree with you on this one. Katana should stay but needs to be less of a primary and more like a melee.

(OmaGretel) #62

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;81800”][quote=“OmaGretel;81779”]100% invisibility is too easily abused, imo. There would be no way to defend an objective, other than camping right next to it, because otherwise a Phantom could just sneak past you and ninja-plant.
The only buff he needs is to remove his katana, so people start playing him right and using his SMG instead of trying to backstab 1 guy and getting killed by his teammates afterwards.[/quote]

So in other words…it’d be op, because a Phantom got behind you and planted a bomb on the point that you should be protecting instead of running around and playing Deathmatch?

Seems fair to me, you weren’t doing your job and he’s absolutely doing his.[/quote]

So let’s say you are playing underground as defenders. Often you can slow down the attackers at the escalators and stop them from getting to the objective too fast, gaining valuable time for the defenders. I don’t think that is “running around playing deathmatch”, but just a good way to defend.
Often enough a Proxy can ninja-plant, which can bring the defenders into serious trouble. But that’s because your team wasn’t paying attention and let Proxy slip through. With 100% invisibility you have no means to defend against that kind of attack, unless you have Redeye or Vaseline in your team, but i don’t think any merc should require the other team to play certain other mercs (especially if they are snipers).

(watsyurdeal) #63

Except for the fact that you need a Fragger to deal with Medics who constantly reviving people you kill.

And you need an Engineer to deal with the bomb that will inevitably get planted. And you absolutely will need to bring along a support or Nader to deal with Rhino if the enemy team has one.

There aren’t many merc vs merc counters, but to say Phantom should be allowed to have invisibility cause he can get a sneaky plant…that is ABSOLUTELY fair. If anything you should be more than able to get rid of that bomb before he kill your Engi, and heck, you may not even need to have your whole team leave that position, just send Bush with one of the two Medics and keep the other 3 at that position. A Fragger worth their salt should be able to hold that position, not to mention if you have Vasilli picking off people around the corner.

It’s a fair strategy, cause no matter how you put it Phantom will be by himself, and the best way to counter him is to not give him 1v1s. Make him fight on your team’s terms, by sticking together.

If that’s how people justify Rhino, how can it not justify Phantom? A class that thrives on picking people off one at a time.

(OmaGretel) #64

Ninja-planting at that point can have a really big influence on the outcome of the match in pubs. Having 2-3 guards near the objective at all times is already giving a huge advantage to the attackers. That’s way too much of an impact for a move that takes absolutely no skill at all.
And comparing it to Rhino does not work either. Anyone can put a bullet in Rhinos head or destroy a healing station, even if it takes alot more skill than the Rhino player needs. But if you don’t have a recon merc, you would have absolutely no counter at all against a 100% invisibility phantom. He could just go wherever he wants at all times.

(watsyurdeal) #65

If you’re bringing up pubs…you can sneak plant with anyone and it’ll work. Just because pub players have the awareness of a drunk doesn’t mean he’d be overpowered.

(stoutSoup) #66

How about keep phantom as he is, but allow him to plant c4, defuse completely invisble.

(TheOrangePhantome) #67

You know @stoutSoup i wanna ask. Are you rly using ur brain?

Do you know how easy ninja plants will become if that was added. It would be just op and that’s y SD haven’t done that.

(stoutSoup) #68

No need to be rude, just a freaking suggestion

And it’s not like gasp you cant defuse it.

You would have a hard enough time just getting there since people can see you from miles away even cloaked

(TheOrangePhantome) #69

Just sayin that that’s an awful idea.

(TheOrangePhantome) #70

Just sayin that that’s an awful idea.

(watsyurdeal) #71

I agree with @TheOrangePhantome

The problem with invisibility in games is a lot of devs don’t consider the victim’s side.

As long as you have counter measures that allow players to feel like they have a chance, it’s fine.

But I do think full invisibility works best because it works against players of all skill levels, and because of that, I think it’s fair to have, as long as Phantom has to give up something for that powerful positioning tool. Being unable to do anything while cloaked, shooting, defusing, planting, reviving, etc, is a fair trade imo.

(stoutSoup) #72

To each their own. All in all phantom is still an awful character.

(gg2ez) #73

@stoutSoup Really, Phantom an awful merc? You must be playing the wrong game then. His ability for strategic placement is exceptional and has an overall good damage output. What’s wrong with him?

(stoutSoup) #74

He’s awful, and mostly everyone agrees. Pub stomper is all he’s good for, if he was not awful people would not be so hell bent on getting him buffed.

(gg2ez) #75

Balanced, not buffed. It’s really just his potency, he’s bad because of his stats but conceptually he has a great gameplay potential. He wasn’t always bad.

(TheOrangePhantome) #76

I can totally agree with @gg2ez. Phantom was meant to be a class whic ambushes crowds of people and picks of the important classes (medics, engies) and flank the enemy and grap their atention and diatract them while killing them (which is something i enjoy doing a lot) and i don’t think that a lunatic with a katana trying to chop every 1 up fits the idea of his concept well.

(gg2ez) #77

Can I link this thread in an upcoming Phantom post I’m working on? Thanks in advance.

(watsyurdeal) #78

Go ahead, idgaf! XD

(Myself_Deal_with_it) #79

[quote=“FurriesAreAwesome;77851”]I’ve played other games in the past with the “100% invisibility, strong close quarters combatant” thing, and found it to be rather frustrating. Then again, the current cloak implementation is, quite frankly, not very difficult to pick out once you get used to it.

Complete invisibility just feels like a lazy way to fix the problem.

But: I’m willing to give it a shot and see how it plays out. It might not be too bad.

Have you considered making Phantom an infiltration expert instead of just “the invisible guy with the sword”? Consider, for example, a “stealth zip line” that will carry players from Point A to Point B (not teleportation, mind), giving them the current cloak and some damage reduction while using the zipline?

This promotes team play, allows Phantom to help other people, can open up more movement around the maps, etc., etc., and could be offered in addition to the EMP and/or current cloak.

It wouldn’t be useful in all areas of every map, but neither is the turret. Like all abilities, it should be something situational.[/quote]

the zip line is a great idea

(Rosenkreuz) #80

Aside from the obvious audio and the way stereo or even quadraphonic audio setups work (the latter could actually be considered an immediate counter to Refractive Armor since it works so well in pinpointing Phantom’s location), the lighting is also a counter to Refractive Armor. The darker the area is, the more visible Phantom is. Not only that, but even a perfectly still Phantom could be seen via the small distortion around Phantom’s armor. It’s somewhat easy to miss for the untrained eye.

I think Phantom needs to be rethought, honestly. No more of this “recon” nonsense. There’s so much more that could be experimented with while the game is still in beta. Right now is the prime time to explore other options and let creativity be free.