Yet another Thunder Feedback.

(Eox) #1

I guess most of us can agree that the most recent changes for Thunder were far from being ideal. The MK46’s buff was a good step forward, but the concussion buff just does not work. Letting this alone, when I play Thunder, I really feel like it’s hard to earn XP. A lesser issue you may say, but still one IMO as it may discourage some players from using that merc.

The concussion grenade just desperately needs another effect on players. A slow effect is just not enough as enemies are still able to fight back fiercely, and the blind is already avoidable. It seemed really fine back in the days where the conc grenade affected your mouse sensitivity as well, but a lot of players went upset about that.

In my opinion, an effect impairing a player’s ability to deal damage have to trigger. The DPI one was nice, but a lot of arguments were given against. How about a jamming effect on guns instead, with malus on reload speed and weapon swap ? Forcing a reload on the current weapon, with double reload duration. It should leave a good oportinity to attack for Thunder and his team, but one can simply outsmart it by switching to his secondary or melee before the detonation. The swapping time is not affected in order to give to players some time to react (but maybe that swap time malus should also be there. I’ll let you decide). The jamming effect won’t make guns lose ammo.

Of course, I am still not against giving back the DPI reduction instead of my previous idea.

Another thing : the conc grenade should permanently disable installations. Right now it’s only temporary, while a Frag Grenade would have just cleared the whole area. I don’t think it’s fair, so just make the conc grenade EMP effect permanent. This way, if an enemy wants to keep his own installation up, he’ll have to interact with it by picking it and replacing it, and not just waiting for the EMP effect to vanish.

Last thing about the concussion grenade : add a “concuss assist” xp bonus awaded everytime a concussed enemy is killed by one of your allies. Thunder have teamplay a lot, and unlike Fragger his grenades won’t give him exp just by killing everything in the room. Not only this will promote teamplay for nex players, but it’ll also help Thunder players to get a bigger score : even good thunders can lie dead last in the scoreboard, which is a bit depressing for those who play it. A merc also have to feel rewarding too after all.

Finally, giving 10 additionnal hp (to a total of 170) without impairing his mobility to Thunder could be interesting. He’s a big target, so he probably should have a bit more health.

Let me hear what you guys think.

(ASTOUNDINGSHELL) #2

I agree with you a LOT!
I think that maybe th eEMP shoudl disable deplotables until they are pciekd back up. and the extra hp on thunder

(streetwiseSailboat) #3

He does have a concuss assist. It gives you 50 xp.

(Eox) #4

I didn’t noticed that, and my friend either. Probably we were not playing in the right area. We will do more testing to check if this is true. Anyway, since Fragger would have earned more xp for frags through the Frag Grenade, raising the value a little could be interesting.

(SaulWolfden) #5

His LMG should also be buffed by at least 1-2 damage since it should be able to better shred through people in closer quarters. Not sure why they nerfed the damage on it in the first place given the k-121 had been buffed between the period the MK46 was last in the game and Thunder’s release.

I do agree with the emp part of his grenade being permanent, just saying that it fries whatever is effected by it. I also like the idea of a forced reload or switch that way Thunder has a better opportunity and advantage over his opponent while they are concussed.

(Eox) #6

[quote=“SaulWolfden;148985”]His LMG should also be buffed by at least 1-2 damage since it should be able to better shred through people in closer quarters. Not sure why they nerfed the damage on it in the first place given the k-121 had been buffed between the period the MK46 was last in the game and Thunder’s release.
[/quote]

Looking at Syku’s spreadsheet, the MK46’s DPS is around 133, while the K-121’s DPS is around 135. It’s fairly similar. While the K-121 fire slower, the MK46 has a slightly higher RPM than the KEK-10, making it technically easier to use. Yet, the K-121 will probably be more precise.

K-121 has less spread, slower RPM, slightly higher DPS and way higher reload speed. MK46 has a more spread, slightly lower DPS but way faster reload speed compared to K-121 and a higher RPM that makes it a bit less harder to use. I think the MK46 is maybe underrated at this point and I wouldn’t touch its damage in any way. The only buff that would probably apply is more spread buffs, but I am not sure yet. I think the MK46 is seriously not that bad, it’s just a slightly less ranged but easier to use MK46.

Source : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091

However, glad that you like my ideas. :slight_smile:

(SaulWolfden) #7

I’m saying put its damage back to what it was before it got nerfed at least, because it was nerfed when it was released with Thunder.

(watsyurdeal) #8

Honestly the MK46 feels fine for the most part, my opinion may changed when I have more time to fiddle around with it.

But as for the concussions, get rid of the flash, and put better emphasis on the concussion effect. Make it essentially the Arc Nade from Titanfall without the damage.

(superbNet) #9

Every here and there it’s fun to get a conc that leaves some lvl 6 running into a wall, most of the time i play thunder i spend the whole time wondering why im not fragger. I don’t feel like i bring much anything if im doing well or not. The gun feels great now imo.

(CCP115) #10

The heck is a “Malus”?

I googled it and I got a tree species.

As for Thunder changes, there’s a good reason why they don’t go balls crazy with the crowd control. Play any MOBA, and you’ll see a lot of it, and in an FPS, they simply can’t do it to that extent, as it would directly impact the mechanical performance of a player, and it’s nowhere close to fun.

Especially if you just gave him one nade that did all the CC. Why not give him two seperate nades?

(Eox) #11

[quote=“CCP115;149159”]The heck is a “Malus”?

I googled it and I got a tree species.
[/quote]

Maybe a fucked up and used a french word. The good word would be “reduction” here.

A Malus is supposed to be a “negative buff”. It’s the opposite of a bonus.

(BananaSlug) #12

i would give him 180hp as next step

(Reddeadcap) #13

If the actual loss of mouse control is too much to too many people, why not give people hit by them a huge jump in accuracy bloom, locking away the ability to aim down sights.

Maybe locking abilities for a couple of seconds.

Finally the most obvious actually blinding the enemy so that they can’t see Thunder and Co.'s health bars if they get shot even once during the process, If Redeye’s smoke can do that, Why not Thunder’s conc grenades?

(Terminal_6) #14

I was thinking something along the lines of this, maybe incorporating small amounts of (a) larger starting CoF (b) longer reload time © longer weapon swap time, maybe sacrificing the power of the blinding effect.

(Reddeadcap) #15

I was thinking something along the lines of this, maybe incorporating small amounts of (a) larger starting CoF (b) longer reload time © longer weapon swap time, maybe sacrificing the power of the blinding effect.

[/quote]

It’s already pretty inconsistent as it it and like I mentioned, once you’re hit by someone who’s blinded they’re basically not blinded anymore as they see where your healthbar is.

(OmaGretel) #16

I agree, it’s too easy to shoot back while stunned. Especially when just concussed and not blinded.
Also the XP rewards really are too low as OP has mentioned. I keep ending up in the bottom half of the scoreboard with the best K/D in my team by far. Not saying I should always be top-scorer, but somewhere in the upper regions would be nice, wehn I have a good match.

(Haki) #17

your argument that the concussion grenade only disables for a couple of seconds whereas the frag nade destroys them for good is so true that I can’t believe I never thought that far…

then again the concussion grenade has a larger AoE( i believe) so that would have to be adjusted.
Other then that i fully agree with you

(blisteringOwlNest) #18

The problem is a well placed conc would be an even better placed frag. Deployables should be permanently deactivated, and a cool down should be added to concussed people, as many people have suggested.
At the moment, concs have the same effect as frags (stopping people fighting) but less reliably and for a shorter time. It needs to be tangibly different with different effects.

(SzGamer227) #19

lol, it doesn’t stop people from bottoming the team as Vassili though, does it? :smiley:

I like the sound of a lot of these ideas. The weapon jamming thing sounds a bit complicated, but whatever. Anything to keep a group of stunned enemies form backing into a corner and firing in all directions would be nice.

Stun assist xp just makes sense.

I definitely think that Thunder should have 170 health, not just to make up for his size, but also because his speed:health ratio falls below the standard set by Fragger and Rhino.


Fragger has 150 health and 385 speed.
Thunder has 160 health and 375 speed.
Rhino has 200 health and 360 speed.
The orange line represents the aforementioned standard ratio for health and speed.

The magic point where Thunder has enough health to match his speed? 170.

(If I recall correctly, Thunder used to have 170 health in the open beta. If this is the case, then I guess they must have reduced his health without proportionately increasing his speed at some point between then and now.)

As it stands, Thunder is currently bigger than Fragger, slower than Fragger, and only has 10 more health than Fragger. Other balance issues with Thunder aside, this one is by far the simplest to fix. Why hasn’t it been done yet?? Why was his health changed in the first place??

(Eox) #20

lol, it doesn’t stop people from bottoming the team as Vassili though, does it? :smiley:

I like the sound of a lot of these ideas. The weapon jamming thing sounds a bit complicated, but whatever. Anything to keep a group of stunned enemies form backing into a corner and firing in all directions would be nice.

Stun assist xp just makes sense.

I definitely think that Thunder should have 170 health, not just to make up for his size, but also because his speed:health ratio falls below the standard set by Fragger and Rhino.


Fragger has 150 health and 385 speed.
Thunder has 160 health and 375 speed.
Rhino has 200 health and 360 speed.
The orange line represents the aforementioned standard ratio for health and speed.

The magic point where Thunder has enough health to match his speed? 170.

(If I recall correctly, Thunder used to have 170 health in the open beta. If this is the case, then I guess they must have reduced his health without proportionately increasing his speed at some point between then and now.)

As it stands, Thunder is currently bigger than Fragger, slower than Fragger, and only has 10 more health than Fragger. Other balance issues with Thunder aside, this one is by far the simplest to fix. Why hasn’t it been done yet?? Why was his health changed in the first place??[/quote]

I wish I could put you both an agree AND an insightful, but I can’t ! Take that like instead.

You’ve definitely found good reason to tune up Thunder’s health. Glad that you like the other ideas too.