Yet another "Spawn Camping" thread

(Gwarh) #1

As per the title another thread about Spawn Camping.

For the love of Zues’s beard PLEASE do something to prevent the relentless spawn camping in this game. I beg you Nexon/Spash Damage.

It’s very very very frustrating to enter a match to be killed the INSTANT you spawn. The “invulnerability” we supposedly get is next to useless if not totally useless as were still dead in seconds of spawning.

Please institute something like a 5 second invulnerability that allows us to shoot our weapons and not loose said invulnerability. Any enemy Merc that we could kill within those 5 seconds DESERVES to die, as they are blatantly camping. Pain fields near the spawn areas are also a good deterrent to campers.

I am personally tired of other players saying stuff like “Learn 2 Play Newb”, or “It doesn’t happen that often” Happening at all is too often, there is no need for it to be happening. Or best of all “It only happens when teams are imbalanced”. No Kidding it only happens when teams are imbalanced but that is OFTEN!

When I go through 2 or 3 different servers only to be repeatedly steam rolled I start to regret the $100 or more bucks I’ve already dropped on this otherwise great game.

If playing Planetside 2 has taught me anything its that players get into a sort of feeding frenzy mode when they push an enemy back to their spawn. They just seem to go nuts and can’t help themselves from spawn camping. I’ve seen them line up like lemmings in front of the shielded (see PS2 has protected spawns) spawn rooms out in the open just hoping for someone to come out so they can gank them. Even when the defenders can shoot out of the shielded room and the attackers can’t shoot in, they still line up in plain sight over and over for a chance at a spawn kill.

You cannot rely on gamers being sportsmanlike or showing restraint. They will devolve to the lowest denominator the map allows for. And if the map doesn’t punish them for spawn camping they will spawn camp.

It’s 2015 folks, there is no reason why we should be dealing with 1995 FPS map design issues any more.

(XavienX) #2

I have to admit, I hate being spawn camped myself. But I still spawn camp others when I have the change.
So I have a better idea. A area in the spawn should keep you invincible the whole time you are within that area until you leave it. That way people can’t get in and try to juke you out in the spawn area as well.

(PlayingUndead) #3

I’m neutral on the subject, but do you think if spawn camping itself could be prevented, the match might be turned around? I’m not trying to invalidate your point by saying “YOU’D LOSE ANYWAY LOL”, I’m just curious, I always kinda wondered. Me personally, I been spawn camped more times than I can count. I dunno, it never bothered me much, actually a sick part of me enjoyed it. Spawn, take desperate potshots, feel good if I take one of the bastards down, repeat. Don’t get me wrong, spawn camping is bad and should be prevented, I’m not really making a point here.

Back in Perfect Dark Zero when friends and I would play, we had a little anti-spawn camp method ourselves… The Laptop! Heh! It was a gun that could be deployed in multiples as a turret, and you could stick it to walls and ceilings and such just by throwing it, anywhere you wanted, no red transparent model hovering in front of you like a big middle finger, hah. Ah man, those were good times. Where was I? Oh right, yeah, stop spawn camping! For sure!

(Gwarh) #4

I hear ya @PlayingUndead , it brings out the primal killer in us I think. When you can get to the enemy spawn and just slaughter them as soon as they appear.

For sating carnal lust it’s great, but good gameplay does not make.

I think a zone of say 10 game meters square where you are invulnerable no matter what you do would work. Then if folks want to try and wait for you to leave that zone you could more than likely kill them before they get you.

(RuleofBooKz) #5

spawn camping is the game working as intended. u do not just push on attack u must also push on defense*. If u make an area of invulnerability just inside spawn then the camp with be just outside of that and so on and on etc etc

best to just get better at the game

  • bit of a gripe when on defense and an obj falls, like the wall is blown on terminal, and most of the defending team falls all the way back to the next obj - the containers - as fast as possible and stays there. This is not the correct way to do defense people
(Gi.Am) #6

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;39311”]spawn camping is the game working as intended. u do not just push on attack u must also push on defense*. If u make an area of invulnerability just inside spawn then the camp with be just outside of that and so on and on etc etc

best to just get better at the game

  • bit of a gripe when on defense and an obj falls, like the wall is blown on terminal, and most of the defending team falls all the way back to the next obj - the containers - as fast as possible and stays there. This is not the correct way to do defense people[/quote]

Yes it is. An agressive defense is only a good idea, if the enemy is considerable weaker. Otherwise it is very risky to push too much. 1-2 good players getting past the defense means that they get a uncontested objective plant/repair going putting your team, that is out of postition on the move.
Thats the reason why you see the pro teams very often mass suicide or already falling back as soon as the defuse is impossible.
Don’t get me wrong, if the enemy had the forward spawn (on terminal) and you are all still between them and the objective, then sure staying there and getting some kills in, will buy you time. But as a rule of thumb being too agressive as a defender, if the other team is near your level is a dangerous play.

Having a safehaven for the attackers doesn’t help them. You are getting spawncamped because your team is outclassed/outnumbered or plain too passive. Having an area where you can’t be harmed and even possible shoot out of, will only make you hide in that spot. And as a defender who is doing everything right (i.e. winning) having to sit around because the attackers flat out refuse to play is stupid.
Not having that fallback position means the only option for the attackers is what they are supposed to do in the first place to attack, to push, to contest the objective.

(N8o) #7

Getting into a match already half way done and being spawn camped I can understand, but if you are there with a team from the start and you guys get spawn camped, it’s already your fault or your team’s fault. Not saying you are a bad player, and I am not taking shots here, but if you are spawn camped, you deserve to be spawn camped.

Maybe I am only saying this because I only ever play with a team and have not once been spawn camped, but have spawn camped many others.

(Dirmagnos) #8

[quote=“Raw;39334”]Not saying you are a bad player, and I am not taking shots here, but if you are spawn camped, you deserve to be spawn camped.
[/quote]

If there is hacker in the game, then you deserve to have a hacker in the game. If game crashed, then you deserve to have game crashed. If youre game is bugged, then you deserve to have those bugs. If you get disconnect, thne you deserve to get disconnected.
I truly hope that you will never get into any position of authority.

(DMaster2) #9

I agree with the suggestion, spawn camping have to stop. Once i joined an already started stopwatch match, where we were 3 vs 7 opponents (this alone SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN but it’s another matter that the developers should fix) and they spawnkilled us so i wasn’t even able to get to a cover (was chapel) before getting killed from multiple directions. Useless to say that in 3 minutes of games one of my team quitted (making it even worse) and there two of us that remained quitted on mid. That wasn’t fun at all. It need to stop.
Give a longer invincibility time, give an invicibile zone, whatever you want as long as you can at least defend yourself in those situations.

(DMaster2) #10

[quote=“Raw;39334”]Getting into a match already half way done and being spawn camped I can understand, but if you are there with a team from the start and you guys get spawn camped, it’s already your fault or your team’s fault. Not saying you are a bad player, and I am not taking shots here, but if you are spawn camped, you deserve to be spawn camped.

Maybe I am only saying this because I only ever play with a team and have not once been spawn camped, but have spawn camped many others.[/quote]
Maybe your team sucks, maybe your opponent’s team is too good, maybe is a bit of both and you happen to be on the team with lower number of members. You don’t deserve shit, the game should auto-balance the teams both in number of member and skill but refuse to do both. Not anyone’s fault if the game is flawed balance-wise.

(RuleofBooKz) #11

auto balance for when teams are badly imbalanced in terms of player numbers is a mechanic that in pubs would be ok and not a bad idea to look at.

That is a separate issue to “spawn camping” - tho can be a cause so i will give you that.

The other issue: Adding in more spawn protection - increased spawn shield times, zones, turrets etc etc is not a good idea. People have to take some personal responsibility. If u are bad and your team is bad then a better team will push you back. And keep you there. That is the game working as intended.

putting in artificial stuff to prevent that is just a slight on those who have put in the time and effort to get that skill

Dirmagnos why go on about “a position of authority”? Hackers, crashes and bugs are not the players personal responsibility - how well they play the game is. These are very separate issues.

And if your good and your team is just rubbish? That sucks - its frustrating i get it - but its part of the game. My advice if it frustrates u so much? Play defense. Its more painful to be on a fail team that cant attack, and gets camped until the clock runs down, then be on a fail team on defense and lose quickly.

(Daergar) #12

I’m flabbergasted as to why anyone would defend spawn camping, no matter the cause.

Some maps would need a slight re-design in layout and spawn point, but I can easily see it work with a five-second invulnerability shield that does not disappear when firing a weapon.

Slightly separate spawn points would also help greatly, but sadly the maps and teams are too small for this.

(Yes) #13

I always try to avoid spawn camping, but it raises two issues.

  1. If the rest of my team is spawn camping, I pretty much wouldn’t get to do anything unless I get involved.
  2. If my team has the ability to push the other team back to spawn, it’s hardly going to matter if we let them sprint for a few more seconds before killing them.

I think that a good idea would be to have plenty of exits from the spawn area and have more than one option for the objective, like Dome has for its second objective.

(N8o) #14

[quote=“Dirmagnos;39343”][quote=“Raw;39334”]Not saying you are a bad player, and I am not taking shots here, but if you are spawn camped, you deserve to be spawn camped.
[/quote]

If there is hacker in the game, then you deserve to have a hacker in the game. If game crashed, then you deserve to have game crashed. If youre game is bugged, then you deserve to have those bugs. If you get disconnect, thne you deserve to get disconnected.
I truly hope that you will never get into any position of authority.
[/quote]
Not at all what I am saying. First off; having a hacker in your game no way determines how hard you are trying or how skilled you are to be able to combat it. If your game crashes, it’s not your fault. Same with the bug issue. Being disconnected isn’t gameplay connected at all, same with everything else you mentioned.

Also, that last comment was uncalled for.
Being spawn camped is your own fault. If the team is beating the absolute shit out of you to the point where you are trapped in spawn, then it is YOUR fault. You have gone wrong SOMEWHERE. This wasn’t chance, this was your inability to combat the enemy team.

I do understand others’ points on inbalance. In an ideal game, the teams aren’t stacked and everyone is equally placed against each other. But someone will always find a way around this. Even if teams were shuffled, it wouldn’t be hard for someone to switch back to their buddy’s team and wreak havoc again. Teams are already balanced based on skill at the beginning of a game, and having teams switch in Stopwatch is unfair to the team that worked so hard to make sure their time is unbeatable.

Having spawn protection would (I think someone else posted about this) be even worse. In the game Planetside 2, there is a system like this in place. There is a shielded room in which you can shoot out of, but can’t be shot into. Pretty much, the enemy team will just sit in a large circle around all the exits and throw explosives or wait for the enemy to come out. If you are at that point in PS2, you already lost that base (unless you do something that is called a “max crash” which is more or less a bunch of Rhinos coming out of spawn and spraying and hoping that their team can push forward before the time runs out on the base cap).

I am AGAINST spawn camping being in game. I am sure everyone would love for teams to be balanced, but it’s hard to build a system to combat it. Sure, I spawn camp when it is available to me, because I am not going to just sit and do nothing. It’s not like the team was going to win if we let them go because let’s be realistic here, they were being spawn camped for a reason.

I would like to see the Shuffle Team system reworked though(as well as the freaking vote kick system because are you telling me a 6-1 vote failed to kick the player?!). The winning team will never let this vote go through. The only problem I see with this is players that want to play with their friends are pinned against each other. Many will say, “Just go into comp. You can always been on the same team then!” but it would just be worse in competitive.

Also, does anyone know of a system that actually works in other games that prevents pub stomping or absolutely destroying the casual game lobbies?

(Szakalot) #15

3-5 sec of permanent invulnerability would solve this

(N8o) #16

Would it though? Take Underground for instance. If you are the attackers and you get pushed back to spawn, you have two options of exit. Narrow Hall #1 or Narrow Hall #2. The team could wait there and kill you directly after you go down the Narrow Hall #1 or Narrow Hall #2. Maybe this is just poor map design because you can just keep the enemy team at a choke point. I do think it would work on a lot of maps though. (The reason I used Underground as an example is because that’s the only map I have ever seen effective spawn camping on other than Terminal.)

So yes, I agree. This would solve a large chunk of it on much wider maps like Trainyard.

(Aazhyd) #17

[quote=“Raw;39374”](The reason I used Underground as an example is because that’s the only map I have ever seen effective spawn camping on other than Terminal.)
[/quote]

Are you sure? I think Underground is the map with the least amount of spawn camping. I have seen heavy spawn camping on all other 4 maps. Chapel is probably the worst.

(Gi.Am) #18

[quote=“Aazhyd;39384”][quote=“Raw;39374”](The reason I used Underground as an example is because that’s the only map I have ever seen effective spawn camping on other than Terminal.)
[/quote]

Are you sure? I think Underground is the map with the least amount of spawn camping. I have seen heavy spawn camping on all other 4 maps. Chapel is probably the worst.
[/quote]

Sorry but you are both wrong imo. There is spawncamping (as in aiming and shooting people when they spawn) and “spawncamping” (indefinitely holding an enemy at a chokepoint between spawn and objective). You two are talking about the second definition. While true spawncamping is the first. Both underground and terminal hardly ever see spawncamping by that definition, because they have a very convenient chokepoint before that.

No matter what spawncamping type you suffer C4 maps are in general worse than EV missions. For a very simple reason.On EV maps defenders can’t revert progress the attackers made. If you keep getting someone through and repair in. he will eventually move the spawns forward all by himself. On the other hand in C4 missions everytime the defenders defuse a C4 charge they nullify any progress you made and you have to start over.

That is also why defenders get good positions to defend the EV 'cause they can only slow you down.

Now Chapel interestingly, after the spawn area remake, hardly sees spawncamping (getting killed right when you spawn) and is infact a prime example why most spawnprotection ideas are bad.
What you will see fairly regular on Chapel is the other kind of “spawncamping” why ? Because the attackers have a spawn, that is fairly disadvantagous for the defenders to get in / stay in, but gives attackers several defensive position to shoot from. Those positions are nice to get a few kills but they are pretty bad when it comes to preventing the defenders from shooting people that try a repair.
However those positions are there and cautious players (not only snipers but they are offcourse prime examples) will cling to them.
In contrast if you look at pro teams playing Chapel they will always push hard, in the first wave. Pushing defenders out of the positions that allow them to control the EV and giving the engineer breathing room. Another thing to notice is that pro teams are far more cautious in there first wave of C4 missions. Because there it is important, that as many players as possible stay alive to defend the plant afterwards. On EV missions all that is important is that the engineer gets as much alone time as possible with the EV.

(Jojack) #19

The number one reason for spawn camping is when attackers camp in their own spawn. Instead of pushing out, they try to hide and pick off the enemy like it’s CoD. It starts a little ways out of spawn. They run out a ways, find a good camping spot like in generator room on terminal or the top of the stairs, plunk down an aura station and play peekaboo with the defenders. If they lose that battle, then the defenders are holed up in that camping spot and the attackers have to try take it back. When the lose the take back they are pushed even further back to the street. This keeps happening until they are locked in at spawn.

If players would learn that when you are attacking, you have to push out, knowing some or all will die you won’t get spawn camped. Because when you push the defense back, even if your team gets wiped, you have room to spawn and get back in the battle before the defenders can take the foot holds.

There should be no measures taken by the devs that aren’t already in place to stop spawn camping. If for no other reason than to teach the lesson of pushing when on offense. It’s how the game has to be played, otherwise it turns into CoD TDM. It’s a bad habit that needs to be broken.

(RuleofBooKz) #20

No one is “for” spawn camping. 1st off it doesnt exist in this game as its the game working as intended and 2nd - get better at the game and it wont effect you either.

the only time ive ever been stuck in spawn, unable to make progress towards the obj, has been literally when the teams were like 3vs7.

Ive arrived in game to a team being stuck in spawn many times tho - as players usually DC when they get put in that position opening up server slots- and ive have always 100% been able to gain process with the tools the game already gives us. Not tooting my own horn here just sharing my experiences with your issue.

The spawn shield how it is now is fine so long as you are good enuf to take advantage of it.

The prob is players that complain about this issue wont understand its not an issue until they are good enuf that it doesn’t effect them so just saying “get better at the game” means nothing to them because they are not good at the game -a big indicator of this is this whole thread