worries

(DepressedOptimist) #81

[QUOTE=LyndonL;238623]Sorry mate, I agree with you. But in this day and age… why would a company want to make a game that lasts for ages when they can make something then make a sequel… it’s the current trend.

If you make something that pub players are meh iffy about but comp players love, then you will get (let’s say) half the purchases, and no further money from your game being played for years to come. Whereas if you make a really popular pub game, you will get heaps of purchases and get to double/triple that when the sequel comes out 1-3 years later.

It’s just the current trend for games. I think/hope SD aren’t like that, but they do still have a business to run.[/QUOTE]

I am worried that Brink won’t last like W:ET. But if it has as much replayability as W:ET or TF2 I’d be a very happy camper. I’m also worried that the color silhouettes won’t be an option to turn off.

(Cankor) #82

[QUOTE=H0RSE;238494]Yes, no one is going to use it because it’s off by default…that’s a brilliant observation (not really)

“You mean my car is off?! I need to start it up before I can drive it?! I might as well not even have a car!”

For those who use voice chat, they’ll turn it on, hell, a lot of them will probably use TS anyway. ANd besides, it’s already been stated that if you join a game where VOIP is enabled, it’s enabled for EVERYBODY. You won’t be p[laying games where some people have it on and some don’t.

You’re right - that’s why they included VOIP…

lol, yes “doomed” = has to select “on” from the menu…overreacting much?[/QUOTE]

Horse, you’re obviously a smart guy, which is why I’m baffled how you don’t see this. Obviously, it’s easy to turn it on. Conversly, it’s just as easy to turn it off if it annoys you. But if you turn it on, and there’s no one there, you’re going to move to teamspeak or something with your clan mates. Since you’re on teamspeak or vent or whatever, the next guy who turns it on will find no one using it, so he will do the same.

Since it’s just as easy to turn it on or off, why not leave it on by default and let the guys who want it off turn it off. On by default doesn’t have the same drawback as off by default does, which, and I know I’m repeating myself over and over, is that no one will use it if there’s no userbase, and the userbase may never build up if it’s off by default.

I’m half believing you’re just trolling, but I haven’t really seen you do that so I’m taking you seriously. But yeah, I admit I’m probably over reacting and it will hopefully turn out to be no big deal. Maybe I see it as another way consoles are adversly affecting PC games, VOIP griefing to me is so much a console issue and hardly ever a PC issue, and when it is, admins can ban the douche or players can just as easily mute him or vote kick him or whatever.

I know this horse is dead (no pun intended), so I’ll quit beating it except to say one last time I think
it should be painfully easy to mute someone and VOIP should be on by defaut so the VOIP userbase is there day 1.

(LyndonL) #83

Pretty much my exact sentiments Cankor.

(Nail) #84

My thinking is Splash Damage believes the ingame AI chat will suffice for new people, it seems to give you a heads up about most of what goes on about you. When people are more used to the game, they will explore the other opportunities available.

(LyndonL) #85

You can’t collude with VSays or AI Chat though.

“Let’s hold off til BlaBla respawns, then move around the far left hand corridore.”… Doesn’t really work, and takes precious time to type.

(Nail) #86

I found people respond to more general ideas rather than “go here, do that” and as I said, new people to online multiplayer shooters could be overwhelmed by typical VOIP trash talk, comms are obviously important to co-ordinated play, but that’s not what you usually find in pubs. I found the vsays in W:ET more than adequate in pubs, especially in multi country of origin games.

(LyndonL) #87

I always play with friends, and we like to coordinate specifically. After a while of playing a particular game we get to know the strategies and don’t need comms, but they’re still handy.

(tokamak) #88

If you’re only playing with friends you don’t need to worry about the voicechat default.

(LyndonL) #89

It’s not the point. A very small minority shouldn’t ruin it for everyone.

(potkettleblack) #90

Wrapping new players in cotton wool isn’t the solution imo. Even things like swear filters dont completely negate trash talking. In fact I think trash talk that doesnt involve swearing tends to cut a bit deeper. Or has text chat been completely removed also?

(H0RSE) #91

But if you turn it on, and there’s no one there, you’re going to move to teamspeak or something with your clan mates.

As I already addressed, if you join a game with VOIP on, its on for everyone, so no guesswork.

Since it’s just as easy to turn it on or off, why not leave it on by default and let the guys who want it off turn it off.

Quite simply, because it’s a completely optional feature, that has a rather “unique” effect on the game, unlike other optional features like anti-aliasing or dynamic shadows - it even requires optional peripherals to fully use.

On by default doesn’t have the same drawback as off by default does, which, and I know I’m repeating myself over and over, is that no one will use it if there’s no userbase, and the userbase may never build up if it’s off by default.

Could you please enlighten me as to what these “drawbacks” are? Headache? Fatigue? Low sperm count? If the only drawback worth mentioning is that “no one will use it,” well I’m afraid you haven’t sold me the idea yet. Those who want to use it, will turn it on, and those who don’t, who don’t care to, or have never used it before, will enter the game with nothing to worry about. Stop preaching like VOIP is the holy grail of gaming, and without it we are all doomed, especially in Brink’s case, since it will be using Steam - a program with it’s own VOIP support, and the auto-chatter function being built into the game. Also remember, that VOIP is not truly “off” by default - friends will be able to hear you, and don’t most people play with friends?

Another big complaint I see a lot concerning this is, “if it’s off by default, player’s might not know about or might not be able to find the option to turn it on.” This is pretty much, a completely bogus concern - If a player uses or is going to use VOIP, then he either already uses VOIP or knows the option is there. Either way, he’s fully aware that the option exists.

The only time I can see VOIP being a truly beneficial, is in competition, like clan and league matches, in which case, VOIP is usually mandatory, so I doubt players will be clueless if it’s on or off.

(LyndonL) #92

Why are you such an advocate for getting rid of it if you’re indifferent? You’re not saying why you don’t want it in.

I couldn’t give a crap if VOIP transmit was off by default, since YES you can enable it if you want it. But to have it so that LISTEN is off by default is just plain ridiculous.

Don’t give me Steam’s VOIP as a BS excuse because you know all too well that the only people who you can voip to on Steam is ppl on your friend list… Or should we perhaps pretend that Steam is Facebook and add every single person we play with to our Friends list?!

The drawback is a system that is very functional is being cut off at the knees for no real valid reason.

Leave VOIP listen ON by default, and have a very easy MUTE button available on the first tier of the first menu that pops up in game when you press ESC.

VOIP is not the holy grail of gaming, but it sure as hell is uesful. I use it in almost all games I play unless it’s disallowed. And the games which it’s disallowed in, I feel like there is a lot of control lost since effective communication is one of the staples of effective teamwork.

(potkettleblack) #93

I couldn’t give a crap if VOIP transmit was off by default, since YES you can enable it if you want it. But to have it so that LISTEN is off by default is just plain ridiculous.

As opposed to having VOIP enabled, and not pressing the transmit key? lol

(SockDog) #94

I’m going to dip in and out on this one (still fuming that there is no cocaine Hagen Das ice cream!).

H0rse, IIRC, has zero interest in using VOIP, this IMO rather taints his opinion on its implementation.

To have VOIP off by default is akin to SD not having VOIP in ETQW. I’m surprised such a decision was made so early in development and yet the likes of griefing, voting etc has been seen as a non issue.

Things can be optional but that doesn’t make the decision 50/50. By having it off by default means people will either accept it as the norm (never exploring the option) or take that as a sign that VOIP on pubs etc is evil and should be avoided. Well thats my opinion on its influence anyway.

Idea: Leave VOIP on by default and have a little hud element popup with the user’s name when someone talks. In the same element put in txt to explain how to mute (including instant mute this player) and turn on/off VOIP options (none, friends, all).

(tokamak) #95

…exactly the reason why they set it to off by default.

[QUOTE=LyndonL;239229]I couldn’t give a crap if VOIP transmit was off by default, since YES you can enable it if you want it. But to have it so that LISTEN is off by default is just plain ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]
There really would be no point in doing it the other way around.

Perhaps this could convince you:

(SockDog) #96

[quote=tokamak;239239]…exactly the reason why they set it to off by default.

Perhaps this could convince you:

So because a few people do this we should switch off VOIP but when a few people grief we should just accept “it rarely happens” and “it’s blown out of proportion” so there is no need to address it. Seems to be some double standard there on minority annoyances.

If anything this stuff is more easily dealt with than griefing by implementing a per player mute button. Turning off all VOIP to avoid these people is like cutting off your head to stop a toothache. Should we also just not play the game to avoid griefers?

(LyndonL) #97

[QUOTE=tokamak;239239]
There really would be no point in doing it the other way around.

Perhaps this could convince you:

Not even slightly. A) That’s PS3. B) A few spastic people should not change the way I play my games.

+1 SockDog… An easy accessible mute button is all you need to make kids like her go away. I can count the number of annoying VOIP experiences on my hand in years of gaming. And those few times compared to the countless times VOIP has been useful kiiiinda doesn’t outweigh it…

(AnthonyDa) #98

I think we should remove text chat too because you can write nasty things on it…

(Voxie) #99

If I’d get free reign on designing the PC version I’d make it so that VoIP defaults to on, with the clear choice to turn it off in the options.
I’d make it so that you can very quickly mute players (along the lines of right-clicking while the scoreboard is up toggles a mouse pointer, which you can use to instantly mute players, as well as a through a button in the ESC menu). Muting would be tied with Steam IDs and therefore be persistent.
Team and global VoIP would have two discrete buttons – both pre-bound in the default settings. Additionally, players who’ve opted out of hearing voice chat (or turned off sound altogether) will have a small icon on the scoreboard denoting that.

I don’t think defaulting VoIP to off is a good idea for the PC SKU, simply because of the reasons LyndonL et al. have outlined above. In fact, I think the exact opposite of prohibiting the use of voice chat in-game is the way to go.
I miss the “good old days” when the dev team would freely and openly discuss game mechanics to a much greater degree than they’ve done recently – but that is the reality of marketing and heavy software development.

(SockDog) #100

Very good summation (love the perma-mute by SteamID) I totally agree with. I hope SD can do this, it’s very late in the day I know but I feel this design choice was led more by knee-jerk needs to “blur the lines between single and multiplayer” and “not scare people off”. I do however feel this is wrapping so much cotton wool around the players that it’s actually smothering them.